Brambles Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi, My Motorhome was reshod couple of weeks ago and I specifically asked the the centre to check my front brakes while the wheels were off. They reported the brakes where fine. Good! I thought. Spent enough on my 11 year old Motorhome this year doing repairs. Took it in for MOT last Monday and again asked MOT chap if he could specfically inspect my front brake pads. Why you might ask when I have been told already they are fine. Well My reason is my brakes failed 5 years ago when 6 years old from pads breaking up. So I really wanted to know the 5 year old pads were OK even though having only done 22K miles. " Brakes are fine." I had a gut feeling about these pads and decided I would check myself. I think the picture attached says it all. 5 years old 22K miles. These are original Peugeot pads ( manufactured by Galfer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Have you considered advanced driving lessons......feathering? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Flying lessons definitely required if I had done mountain passes with these pads. :o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Seems they both just looked at the thickness of the linings, it looks as if the backing has corroded and become detached. It wouldn't be apparent unless you physically removed the pads. A timely reminder with my MOT due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The third from the left looks to be well cooked. I doubt if it has been caused just one hard stop from motorway speed , its what I would expect from rushing down a mountain and continually braking hard or that one pad is doing most of the work because the other plungers were seized or inactive due to a hydraulic blockage. Pushing the plungers back to change the pads should show up any stickyness. Last year I changed to EBC pads that are made in the UK and have been very pleased with the increased in efficiency at MOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 'tuther pic showing how material has fractured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 George Collings - 2014-06-08 4:14 PM The third from the left looks to be well cooked. I doubt if it has been caused just one hard stop from motorway speed , its what I would expect from rushing down a mountain and continually braking hard or that one pad is doing most of the work because the other plungers were seized or inactive due to a hydraulic blockage. Pushing the plungers back to change the pads should show up any stickyness. Last year I changed to EBC pads that are made in the UK and have been very pleased with the increased in efficiency at MOT. Just to answer this... They all show signs of fracturing in a similar way. I do not rush down mountains but take my time and allow brakes to cool now and again. It is fair to say though every summer I do a lot of mountain passes. Pistons are fine, caliper sliders were fine but on one side (drivers) one was undersize and caliper would rattle all the time going over bumps. I have fitted new sliders all round and rattle has stopped. It was not the one rattling which has lost material. This seems to be purely down to the material fracturing, damp getting in and the ferrous content of pads has corroded. If you ask me, I would say OEM pads are just not up to the stress they get doing mountain passes AND over 5 years use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Brambles, Winter salt accelerates corrosion, If you came in from a run over salted roads and then the 'van stood for a few weeks it might account for some of the pad breakdown but I bet if you sent them to the makers they would blame overheating ( well they would wouldn't they). My last set looked much the same for break up and wear but were along with the discs I belive original and 16 years old as the van had done 25k when we bought it and 70k at the change. The discs are still on and look likely to outlast the 'van. Although you try and allow the brakes to cool, everything I have learnt suggest that its better to brake relatively hard and then release the pedal for some seconds than use continious light braking. This allows air to get to the surface of the pad itself and cool it. The total amount of heat that has to be disassipated stays the same but its best got rid of in chunks rather than steadily. Its long been said that you need to come down long hills in the same gear you go up but modern vehicles are so high geared I now use one gear lower to get the benefit of engine braking. I also avoid as far as possible accelerating away from hairpin bends as that just more heat you are storing to be rid of before rounding the next one, It does annoy please the locals but I always pull in to get them past ASAP. In any case I am no hurry being there for the view. The pics a month old and the view from Mt Ventoux fantastic but I estimated the windspeed at 50 mph at 0 degrees C. Wikipedia says that the average wind speed there is that for 240 days per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 This is nothing to do with overheating George. I change more brake pads because of this crumbling than I do worn out pads. In mitigation of the tyre place and the MOT place: The tyre fitters will only have looked at the pads through the gaps in the calipers and you can't always see the crumbling like that, especially if its all covered in brake dust and cobwebs. As for the MOT they are not allowed to remove a wheel for inspection and you simply cannot see the friction material without removing a wheel unless you have a very open design of allow wheel. I frequently see crumbling brake pads from about four years old onwards which is why I don't do "small services", wheels need to be removed in the majority of cases to properly examine brakes. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 George Collings - 2014-06-08 11:11 PM Its long been said that you need to come down long hills in the same gear you go up but modern vehicles are so high geared I now use one gear lower to get the benefit of engine braking. We have a Golf with DSG gearbox and it selects quite a low gear going down hills, in a 7 gear box it is probably a gear lower than I would have selected manually. This boxes works very well in all respects so I am persuaded that the VW engineers have thought it through and this is the right thing to do. Is this problem due to the van being left standing for long periods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Thanks for all the comments. Dave, your comments at least normalise it and to some extent are reassuring this happen and is not just me. I appreciate the defence of the Tyre and MOT garage. I suspected the tyre place just gave a cursery look hence why I asked the MOT garage to specifically check the pads and was happy to pay any extra labour. Because they did not charge me extra and I got impression they may not have removed the wheels I decided to check myself...glad I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Brake pad materials have had to change since the banning of asbestos. The old style pads did not suffer from corrosion anywhere near as much, maybe the use of more ferrous material and the use of softer brake discs on modern brakes is the problem. I have had pads break up as well, and rusty and pitted discs, I have owned about 15 vehicles in my time and never had this problem with "old style" pads. Come to that, the old leather braking belt worked really well! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Dave , You are seeing a lot more vehicles than I do.and I totally agree with the need to have the wheels off to pull the pads for examination. Have you noticed if one side or F or R go first. The ones I have seen have been mainly nearside ( in the gutter in the UK) and the one nearest the wheel, presumably inthe position most exposed to road pullutants. It sounds like its age rather than mileage related and probably in fleet use the pads wear out before they fall to bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 In my pic the pads are nearside on left to offside on right in order. So worst one is offside/inside pad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Can't say I've noticed any pattern to failure but then I haven't been looking for one, if one pad on an axle is cracking/crumbling they're all going in the scrap bin. Fronts tend to go before rears but I have seen plenty of rear pads cracking up too. I don't think this is anything to do with materials its just about vehicles that spend long periods not moving. I also don't hold with modern discs being softer, the new friction materials are more abrasive so discs wear out quicker. When I started in the motor trade 37 years ago we almost never needed to replace brake discs but then the average lifespan of a light vehicle was about 80,000 to 100,000 miles or 6-8 years and we didn't see many (if any) motorhomes back then. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Dave Newell - 2014-06-09 6:59 AM This is nothing to do with overheating George. I change more brake pads because of this crumbling than I do worn out pads. In mitigation of the tyre place and the MOT place: The tyre fitters will only have looked at the pads through the gaps in the calipers and you can't always see the crumbling like that, especially if its all covered in brake dust and cobwebs. As for the MOT they are not allowed to remove a wheel for inspection and you simply cannot see the friction material without removing a wheel unless you have a very open design of allow wheel. I frequently see crumbling brake pads from about four years old onwards which is why I don't do "small services", wheels need to be removed in the majority of cases to properly examine brakes. D. Brambles has raised and Dave has highlighted a very serious area of concern. Along with changing tyres it would seem best practice to change or at least remove brake pads for examination after five years. I will bring this to the attention of MMM editors to give it wider publicity and hope other magazines and forums spread the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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