CW1968 Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Hello. Beginning to regret sinking a huge part of our savings into a fully spec'd brand new Twin Supreme 600. Various issues have been referred back to dealer that suggest Adria quality control not what it should be. It has to go back to Dealer for 3 days in a few months to strip out oven, cabinets and panels as no one knows where 2 possible connection blocks are on faulty awning light circuit and Adria will not help; screws pushing through fascia fronts on kitchen, failing tape securing wiring under van; some corrosion, and some other issues but most concerning problem that is mystifying my local Fiat garage that I was wondering if anyone has come across. Habitation door seal is just not sealing and leaking. Door alignment is perfect, flush and plumb in all lines, seal has been replaced, but still leaking and staining internal panels and blinds. Any Fiat Ducato owners heard of this issue and solution. Currently awaiting fitting of a second new seal but if that does not work not sure what solution will be as Dealer says has not seen this before and Fiat garage is mystified as it simply should not be leaking now. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 The sliding door seal is a known problem. There has been a change in the material used for the seal. The problems started on late 2019 vans. The seal had been redesigned ( the previous seal was too hard and caused paint rub problems) and from 2019 a softer seal was fitted. This causes leaks. Door adjustments may reduce but not cure the issue. A further redesigned part is supposed to be in the pipeline to solve the problem. I know of one successful repair where the dealer fitted an additional seal along the top of the door. Replacing the seal with the current stock item rarely solves the problem. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW1968 Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 Thank you Mike. Would you be able to guide me as to where I can get more info on this. The Dealer says my issue is the first they have had and I am doubtful.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 The door-seal issue is mentioned here https://vanleben.com/en/umbauten/fiat-ducato-schiebetuer-und-hecktueren-undicht-abdichten/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 CW1968 - 2021-05-18 11:24 AM Habitation door seal is just not sealing and leaking. Door alignment is perfect, flush and plumb in all lines, seal has been replaced, but still leaking and staining internal panels and blinds. Any Fiat Ducato owners heard of this issue and solution. Currently awaiting fitting of a second new seal but if that does not work not sure what solution will be as Dealer says has not seen this before and Fiat garage is mystified as it simply should not be leaking now. Thanks. I know this shouldn't be needed on a new van but I've noticed on several PCV's some fairly new a self adhesive gutter fitted above the sliding door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW1968 Posted May 19, 2021 Author Share Posted May 19, 2021 Thanks for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 I have been in contact with owner of the 'cured van' on a Citroen base vehicle. The additional internal seal was an unofficial modification carried out by the dealer who went 'the extra mile' to help. The information regarding the material change for the seal was from a technician at a Peugeot dealers. Since the Ducato is made on the same production lines I expect the door seal to be the same. Another owner, again on a Citroen, has reported the third seal change has solved the problem, but is unsure if door adjustment played a part or the seal material and/or fitting technique was different. It does seem with perseverance the leak can be rectified. In your case its the motor home dealer who should be chasing Fiat. There is a customer help line for Fiat Professional, they may be able to 'push' the Fiat dealer. I am not familiar with any additional trim or lining Adria fit to the door, if this encroached into the 'landing area' of the seal, it could cause issues. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 witzend - 2021-05-19 10:19 AM I know this shouldn't be needed on a new van but I've noticed on several PCV's some fairly new a self adhesive gutter fitted above the sliding door A number of converters fit similar types of "gutter" or combined long LED lighting and gutter strips. They aren't intended to improve or fix any problems with the weatherseal of a closed door, simply to divert water running or dripping off the roof so that it does not drip onto the occupants or into the van when the door is open, for which purpose and depending on their design, some of them at least work quite well. Having driven onto the loading ramp for a ferry with the driver's window down to speak to the crew member I can say from experience of the amount of water that suddenly landed in my lap, it is possible for a substantial quantity of water to be pooling on the roof, which can obviously run or drip over any edge according to the inclination of the van, movement of occupants and/or wind direction etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAlexander Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 I can sympathise with Deneb's experience of water running off the roof and into the cab via the drivers window! Happened the first time out in our van after driving off our pitch in the morning. Shortly after I fitted self-adhesive drip rails to the roof on both sides to direct accumulated water away from the windows and down the windscreen. It works extremely well and worth the minimal cost and effort for those vans that are guilty of accumulating water on the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW1968 Posted May 20, 2021 Author Share Posted May 20, 2021 Thank you Mike for your help - much appreciated. I did not see this response before I asked the same question on another forum where someone has taken issue with me asking it again - ho hum. Either Fiat or the dealer are not being straight with me as they both say they know of no issue and I am about to get my 3rd seal on a van I have had 5 weeks now. The door is flush so any further adjustment and it will look odd and may have issues closing. The Dealer fitted the 2nd seal incorrectly (corrected by my local Fiat/DAF workshop) so I am losing confidence in the Dealer. Adria are no help as they say it's a Fiat issue. Again - thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAlexander Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 I'd be slightly cautious about getting concerned with the door being perfectly flush. The panel-fit on these vans is generally pretty poor and a nice flush-fit is very unlikely to equate to a good-fit with respect to sealing. I had several goes at getting a decent seal on my previous 2011 PVC, really just to eliminate wind noise. The result was good, but the door fit certainly wasn't great - not flush at some points and variable panel gaps around the door, but I could live with it, it's not an Audi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 CW1968 - 2021-05-20 2:55 PM I did not see this response before I asked the same question on another forum where someone has taken issue with me asking it again - ho hum. I was not "taking issue" with you asking the question again, just trying to suggest that you were unlikely to get a better judged or more authoritative response than the one that Mike had given you here, the talcum powder advice being a case in point ;-) But I was under the impression that you would have seen both of Mike's replies above before posting there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW1968 Posted May 20, 2021 Author Share Posted May 20, 2021 No I hadn't seen Mike's second reply but appreciate all of the advice and replies. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 CW1968 - 2021-05-20 2:55 PM ..........................The Dealer fitted the 2nd seal incorrectly (corrected by my local Fiat/DAF workshop) so I am losing confidence in the Dealer. Adria are no help as they say it's a Fiat issue. Again - thanks. If this is, as appears the case, an issue affecting all Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen variants of the van, then the problem will quickly become a widely recognised problem except possibly in the case of commercial users who may assume water inside the door is the result of the door being opened during rain. Although Adria's response is unhelpful, it is factually correct. They buy vans which they subsequently convert. Adria, in common with all the other panel van converters, will expect problems in the van as supplied by Fiat etc. to be resolved by Fiat etc under their, not Adria's warranty. However, the dealer who supplied your van has a legal duty to you (under consumer legislation) that if the goods they supplied prove unsatisfactory, they must will the defect. To that end I would expect them to have a working relationship with a competent Fiat Professional workshop capable of remedying Fiat faults that fall outside their competence as motorhome dealers, but through whom they can meet their legal duty to you. So yes, as suggested above, press the supplying Adria dealership to exert pressure on Adria to register their concern with, and exert pressure on, Fiat UK to ensure the fault is remedied as quickly as possible. In doing this, I would tell both your Adria dealer, and Adria UK, which Fiat Professional dealership/workshop you have been dealing with, as someone seems to need updating on the cause, and remedy, of the fault. For obvious reasons, in all cases either letter or e-mail communication will be preferable to 'phone conversations. In addition, have you raised the problem directly with Fiat UK to register a customer complaint? If not, I'd suggest you do as, despite the claims to the contrary, they can be both helpful and constructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW1968 Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 Thanks. Local Fiat Professional depot is currently waiting for a new seal from Italy. This will be their 2nd attempt to remedy after Chelston (who actually are also a Fiat Professional depot!) fitted a new replacement incorrectly. So will be 3rd seal and neither my local depot nor me think it will be successful without (pulling in) the door beyond the surrounding panels and as Mike advised even this may prove unsuccesful. Adria UK are not interested and send a standard response saying refer to Fiat. I sent a very civil email to Fiat asking if this is a known issue and asked if it is and a new seal is in the pipeline then that would at least give me some hope, thier response is "we cannot comment on this". If 3rd seal does not work I will be returning van for full refund as not fit for purpose and fight them all the way as I have been more than patient and civil but Adria are useless, Chelston seem out of their depth on this and Fiat will not comment..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Just a thought, but are replacement seals of the pre-2019 type still available for use on earlier date vans, such as ours. If so, and as these have not, apparently, caused the same problem (ours experiences no side or rear doors leaks, and the sliding door is fitted flush) why does the Fiat garage get a full set of the earlier type seal? I'm not aware that the bodyshell has been altered at the same time as these seals were introduced, so assume the seals are interchangeable between pre, and post, 2019 vans. They should be able to advise whether an earlier type seal is currently available. If not, Fiat et al are going to have a hell of a problem once more of the post 2019 vans, especially those converted to motorhomes, are noticed to be leaking - especially if the SEVEL group as a whole have decided that henceforth all side and rear door seals will be of the later type, even when replacing damaged seals on older vans. Ultimately, they will have to sort this out - if only in their own interests, so they may as well get on with it. As to "we can't comment", that is nonsense, as only they can comment. Have you been given a case number by Fiat for this fault? Is that reply from Fiat UK, or Turin? If might be worthwhile pointing out to your respondent that this is now a recognised problem in UK (we do get more rain, on the whole, than Italy! :-)) - even if not recognised as such by Fiat - and that a more constructive reply would be appropriate. After all, their vans are very widely converted into motorhomes by a large number of converters across Europe, and the converters are bound to become aware of the problem as the modified seal vans come into use post Covid and their owners begin complaining of water ingress. The likes of the Hymer and Trigano groups will soon be yelling down phones when they start getting their ears bashed by irate dealers who can't satisfy irate customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 This may be of interest. https://vanleben.com/en/umbauten/fiat-ducato-schiebetuer-und-hecktueren-undicht-abdichten/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW1968 Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share Posted May 22, 2021 Thanks Brian. Yes have a case number and I think it's an English speaking advisor in Italy. I sent this yeterday but have not had a further reponse: "Sorry but this is not acceptable. I have a 5 week old Fiat based motorhome and am now waiting for a 3rd replacement seal from Italy for my local dealer to fit. I have detailed advice that says that this is a known issue and I am about to start action to return the vehicle to the Dealer unless I can get a clear response to a simple question. I have been advised that this is a known issue to Fiat on vans from 2019 and that you are in the process of providing a revised seal that works but this is not yet available. If this is the case then I will be keeping the van, if not then 3 seals will prove that the van is not able to be made watertight and thus not fit for purpose under English Law. Therefore please advise if this is the case, ie a new seal will soon be available that does make the van wateright. I will not accept you referring me to the Dealer - this is a Fiat base issue and you should give me the courtesy of being honest with me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW1968 Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share Posted May 22, 2021 Thanks deneb - yes I have seen this but am reluctant to do a DIY repair of a brand new van - as Brian says this surely must now start to become more common considering the number of converted Ducatos but time will tell I guess. Amazed Fiat will not say either way but reluctance to deny it suggests the opposite....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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