Brands that are better made

[pike]

Hi - in addition to my other topic about construction methods, I am interested in peoples experiences of different motorhome brands and how they are viewed in terms of build quality + longevity.

Looking at a range of brands, some offer long warranties, whilst others don't. I suppose that the build quality will (to a certain extent) reflect on the length of warranty.

We will never be able to affort a new motorhome, but want to buy something that will (hopefully) last us a long time. I know every make of motorhome will have its 'likers' and 'haters' and there will always be people who have been unlucky. Having been round various motorhome showrooms, the salesmen all had tales of problems in other makes (that they don't stock) and obviously when I went to a different showroom, the sales people all said theirs were the best and that the vehicles from showroom 1 were terrible.

 

Anyone have any pointers for brands to aim towards/avoid (unfortunately we can't afford a Concorde or a Hymer!)

 

 

[vindiboy]

I guess that comes down to ones own personal experiences as you suggest I have had 3 different Continental built vans and I think Continental vans are better than British made, Continental vans in my experience are better winterised in that waste tanks are better lagged and pipe work is all internal,a big thing if wintering in them , My first new van was a EUROMOBIL good van no problems [ on a Fiat ] second new van was an HYMER again Fiat tag axle, no problems with that really and I now have an older CHAUSSON 3,5 tonnes again on a Fiat all were 2,8 jtd engined, The Hymer was the most expensive van but all the appliances etc were and are mirrored in the other 2 vans, so I think the Hymer was expensive compared to the other vans. bits fell off and apart on all my vans but nothing I could not sort my self , I only ever had one habitation service done and that was on the Hymer I watched it being done and thought what a waste of money, so now I look after my own vans if something breaks I fix it or get it fixed , I recently had a fridge freezer fail completely [ it was 14 years old ] in my now van and had to have a new one fitted, something I could have done myself but would then loose the warranty on the unit , £1800 in total eye watering I know. so Continental vans for me BUT all right hand drive.

[StuartO]

I have owned two Hymers and kept the current one for 13 years so far; this one will last me for as long as I want to continue motorhoming. You may think you will not be able to afford a Hymer, or not a new one, but they last well and the older ones, stil perfectly usable, are now costing well under £10,000. Mine cost £52,000 new in 2006 and a new equivalent would now cost over £100,000; mine is still worth around £30,000.

 

Hymers were well built with good materials from the start, as evidenced by the number of older ones still in service. Hymer used to advertise that you could park one on top of another because their steel bar frames (designed to cope with a roll over) could take the strain. They were built this way until around 1995 since when they are built with a patent composite material; not as strong as steel rollover bars but strong enough and virtually immune from dampness issues They have always been built using well designed and top quality electrical and plumbing systems.

 

Build quality is said to have taken a dip around 2007-2008 but Hymer spotted the problem and got a grip; otherwise build quality was always the byword and build quality is still extremely good. Design has also always been extremely good and at the forefront of what's available anywhere. Gradulally the cleverness and stylishness of Hymers has improved and improved but you can still make excellent use of older Hymers, which were always designed very well for motorhome touring - and even for full time use.

 

My 2006 B674 has only two minor teething motorhome problems when new, a faulty light switch and I can't remember the other one. The Fiat gearbox failed only three months from new but Fiat replaced that efficiently too. The way the rear bed frame was fastened to the side walls was flimsy (short self-tappers) but I was able to beef this up without real difficulty. I have also been able to convert to LED lighting very easily and I've no regrets spending money on getting other improvements (satellite TV, solar panels, roof aircon) which have proved their worth.

 

I like to see that older Hymers have been adopted by another generation (or two) and are still being reported touring all over the place. Look after your Hymer and it will work well for you for years and years and years.

[Guest pelmetman]

pike - 2019-11-05 3:03 PM

 

Hi - in addition to my other topic about construction methods, I am interested in peoples experiences of different motorhome brands and how they are viewed in terms of build quality + longevity.

 

 

 

Longevity is only relevant to ones age ;-) .........

 

Based on your age and experience of vehicles? :D ........

 

Do you expect the new camper you buy to be fault free? 8-) .......

 

Do you expect the camper you buy to last 30 years? :-> ........

 

If you do :-| ........

 

Then welcome to happy clappy land (lol) ........

 

 

[mtravel]

Not an easy question to reply.

I don't know britsh brands, speaking about continental ones (not top-top brands):

 

Germany:

Hymer: yes, they cost a lot but some of them from the eighties are still around.

Burstner: Real good choice.

 

France:

Rapido

 

Italy:

Laika, Arca (same concept of Hymer)

 

Slovenia: Adria

 

Keep in mind that almost every make had been acquired by major groups (mainly Trigano and Hymer).

Trigano:

CI, Roller Team, Elnagh, Mc Louis, Mobilvetta, Arca, Autosleeper, Benimar, Chausson, etc.

Hymer:

Burstner, Carado, Sunlight, Etrusco, Elddis, Hymer, Laika, LMC, Niesmann + Bischoff, Dethleffs, Eriba, etc.

BTW, Hymer since a couple of years has been acquired by american Thor Industries.

 

That means scale economies but common features too, sometimes reflecting in the same vehicle sold as different brands:

Chausson/Challenger, CI/Roller Team, etc.

 

Max

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

mtravel - 2019-11-05 3:48 PM

 

Not an easy question to reply.

I don't know britsh brands, speaking about continental ones (not top-top brands):

 

Germany:

Hymer: yes, they cost a lot but some of them from the eighties are still around.

Burstner: Real good choice.

 

France:

Rapido

 

Italy:

Laika, Arca (same concept of Hymer)

 

Slovenia: Adria

 

Keep in mind that almost every make had been acquired by major groups (mainly Trigano and Hymer).

Trigano:

CI, Roller Team, Elnagh, Mc Louis, Mobilvetta, Arca, Autosleeper, Benimar, Chausson, etc.

Hymer:

Burstner, Carado, Sunlight, Etrusco, Elddis, Hymer, Laika, LMC, Niesmann + Bischoff, Dethleffs, Eriba, etc.

BTW, Hymer since a couple of years has been acquired by american Thor Industries.

 

That means scale economies but common features too, sometimes reflecting in the same vehicle sold as different brands:

Chausson/Challenger, CI/Roller Team, etc.

 

Max

 

 

You forget the nitty gritty in the wood pile ;-) .........

 

The drive train :D .......

 

 

[pike]

pelmetman - 2019-11-05 3:38 PM

 

 

Longevity is only relevant to ones age ;-) .........

 

Based on your age and experience of vehicles? :D ........

 

Do you expect the new camper you buy to be fault free? 8-) .......

 

Do you expect the camper you buy to last 30 years? :-> ........

 

If you do :-| ........

 

Then welcome to happy clappy land (lol) ........

 

 

Erm, not sure what that is all about - no I don't expect anything that I buy to last for 30 years or be fault free...

 

It was supposed to be a simple question about any brands that are known to be of decent quality or any to avoid.

[Guest pelmetman]

pike - 2019-11-05 4:50 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-11-05 3:38 PM

 

 

Longevity is only relevant to ones age ;-) .........

 

Based on your age and experience of vehicles? :D ........

 

Do you expect the new camper you buy to be fault free? 8-) .......

 

Do you expect the camper you buy to last 30 years? :-> ........

 

If you do :-| ........

 

Then welcome to happy clappy land (lol) ........

 

 

Erm, not sure what that is all about - no I don't expect anything that I buy to last for 30 years or be fault free...

 

It was supposed to be a simple question about any brands that are known to be of decent quality or any to avoid.

 

Like I said ;-) .......It's relevant to ones age :D .......

 

Do you want to buy new and spend the first few years sorting out a pup? ;-) .........

 

Or buy secondhand that's had all its problems sorted?.........

 

Both are a lottery :-S ........

 

I'm just the smug git with his nearly 30 year old shed in Spain B-) ......

 

BTW no make is really any better than another since the accountants took over *-) .........

 

Although some do have better PR consultants :D .......

[Adiebt]

vindiboy - 2019-11-05 3:29 PM

 

I guess that comes down to ones own personal experiences as you suggest I have had 3 different Continental built vans and I think Continental vans are better than British made, Continental vans in my experience are better winterised in that waste tanks are better lagged and pipe work is all internal,a big thing if wintering in them , My first new van was a EUROMOBIL good van no problems [ on a Fiat ] second new van was an HYMER again Fiat tag axle, no problems with that really and I now have an older CHAUSSON 3,5 tonnes again on a Fiat all were 2,8 jtd engined, The Hymer was the most expensive van but all the appliances etc were and are mirrored in the other 2 vans, so I think the Hymer was expensive compared to the other vans. bits fell off and apart on all my vans but nothing I could not sort my self , I only ever had one habitation service done and that was on the Hymer I watched it being done and thought what a waste of money, so now I look after my own vans if something breaks I fix it or get it fixed , I recently had a fridge freezer fail completely [ it was 14 years old ] in my now van and had to have a new one fitted, something I could have done myself but would then loose the warranty on the unit , £1800 in total eye watering I know. so Continental vans for me BUT all right hand drive.

 

If you have never owned a British built van how can you possibly be able to compare and come to this conclusion ? If you have no experience of owning a British built van then your opinion has no validity .

I have only ever owned British built vans so can offer no opinion or comparison to continental vans .

My Bailey has had its problems ( both large and small ) but i absolutely love it and its definitely a keeper.

Also ( and this is an old fashioned trait i know ) i like to buy British whenever i can ( id never buy tat obviously just because it was made in Blighty )

 

[Nicepix]

Before we bought our current van we visited ten or twelve dealers and went inside many dozens of vans looking at how the cupboards and furniture were made and how they had lasted. Some brands were better than others and some were simply awful. Not naming names but one or two had cupboards that I could have made better, and I can't measure or cut straight! Same with the upholstery. Some brands seemed to have saggy seats and shabby cloth. It is only by comparing a lot of examples can you form a reasonably accurate opinion.

 

Just remember though that build quality is only one aspect of your choice. No good having a beautifully built van that will last forever if the layout doesn't suit your purposes.

[peterjl]

Hi.

We have had 2 Uk built Moho,s, autotrail coach built and autosleeper. PVC. The coach built had various problems and I sold when the three year warranty expired. The pvc was fine and only changed because of layout.

 

We have also had a German coach built Hobby, that was well built if a bit idiosyncratic in design. No major problems. Eventually changed because of layout when I retired.

Also had a couple of German built Globecar pvc. We stuck with the brand because we were so pleased with build quality. Changed for another Globecar because we were racking up the miles.

 

So my experience tends me towards German built moho’s but we might just have been lucky with those.

 

Peter

[spirou]

You won't know the answer to that until you go to a show and dig through everything. Though some really do make it hard to get a glimpse behind the cabinets etc.

[malc d]

pike - 2019-11-05 3:03 PM

 

Hi - in addition to my other topic about construction methods, I am interested in peoples experiences of different motorhome brands and how they are viewed in terms of build quality + longevity.

Looking at a range of brands, some offer long warranties, whilst others don't. I suppose that the build quality will (to a certain extent) reflect on the length of warranty.

 

Anyone have any pointers for brands to aim towards/avoid (unfortunately we can't afford a Concorde or a Hymer!)

 

 

I'm sure you realise that the last person to ask about quality or reliability is a salesman in a showroom.

 

If you only visit showrooms you are likely to be limited in the range of motorhomes around.

 

I would suggest you visit a few shows where some of the smaller manufacturers display their vans, and have a chat with some of the owners where you will get much more realistic / reliable information.

 

A good sign is when people hang on to their vans for a long time - although this can lead to a shortage of second hand vans, of that make, on the market.

 

Good luck.

;-)

[TeamRienza]

As someone stated, longevity is an interesting measure of quality. I have had 2 vans. The first an Autosleeper on a transit chassis. Bought at about 3 years of age it was mechanically sound and all the appliances and fittings worked well. It did suffer damp in 2 locations, although caught early.

During the ensuing 4 years, I began to subconsciously notice the number of older Hymers on the road and looking in good condition. When it came time to change, this observation coloured my choice to a fair extent. It did not take into account the numbers of any make built which might influence the perceived longevity.

We bought new and had various niggles (mostly Fiat issues) but the after service from my dealer is second to none and now the van is as reliable as can be expected. Having owned 2 vans it remains difficult to generalise and layout and availability played a part in the choice too. Hymers proof against damp ingress by their construction system also was a big influence although at the time lots of other manufacturers were beginning to shed wood and offer warranties.

I would take the observations of any owner with some caution as many end up with a brand loyalty and can be reticent about declaring issues and unreliability. I count myself in that accusation too!

 

Davy

[Guest pelmetman]

malc d - 2019-11-05 6:59 PM

 

A good sign is when people hang on to their vans for a long time - although this can lead to a shortage of second hand vans, of that make, on the market.

 

Good luck.

;-)

 

Indeed ;-) .......a van with numerous owners is a sure sign of a pup :-| ......

[Yorkyrunner]

Recently had some tech gear fitted at Falcon (good job,excellent setup) and the fitter upon trying to route the wiring comented on the solid build quality being so good. On the fliip side recently met the owner of a great looking Hymer A class and he said it was 3 months old and falling to bits so its just the luck of the draw.

[HymerVan]

i think it is quite difficult to characterise quality by brand and perhaps especially difficult to directly compare "British" with "foreign" . As I have commented before at least in one sense there is no such thing as a British or foreign van because almost inevitably the base vehicle will be foreign (although it will incorporate a huge range of components some of which may be from Britain). The habitation parts will most likely be sourced from Europe but even the most prestigious manufacturers will have parts built in China or elsewhere.Furthermore this is made even more difficult by the fact that many British manufacturers are owned by European or in at least one case American parent companies.

Furthermore paying a high price is no guarantee of quality. We had a Hymer which was in some respects poorly built especially in the plumbing and heating department.

Generalisations are always misleading and sadly salesmen put food on the table by doing just that i.e. selling in a commission driven environment so that some are more ethical than others when it comes to rubbishing the competition.

More modern vans have more toys e.g. microwaves or whatever and in order to keep weight below the 3500 kg limited this has lead to lighter forms of construction. Looking at a brand new (European as it happens) van recently I felt that the construction was vey light and therefore wondered about longevity.

So what to do ? My best advice is just to keep looking at vans. Within reason crawl all over them and build up your own knowledge of whats good and what isn't.

Best of luck and I hope you find the right van (although most people need more than one attempt.

[longtemps]

After three new Autotrail's on the trot, where each one actually was worse on quality than the last, I have finally had enough. The catalogue of complaints has been eye watering, thankfully my dealer has always been supportive and in fairness, Autotrail have never turned down a warranty claim. But enough is enough, never again will I buy British made. I have now purchased a new continental made van for delivery next year. I have no conscience on the matter regarding British jobs etc; the quality such companies impose on their customers simply does not merit success in these difficult times.

[Geeco]

HymerVan - 2019-11-06 10:07 AMi think it is quite difficult to  ore modern vans have more toys e.g. microwaves or whatever and in order to keep weight below the 3500 kg limited this has lead to lighter forms of construction. Looking at a brand new (European as it happens) van recently I felt that the construction was vey light and therefore wondered about longevity.

 

With the max weight of 3500kg to drive on a  standard UK car licence I wonder if this has caused manufacturers to sometimes go right to the limit on the weight vs strength equation? A good example of my point is recently I needed to replace the bathroom toilet vertical door jam as the screws from the bottom hinge has caused the jam to split. It is a very light item that was made from what looks like MDF. The replacement item was an aluminium extrusion a little heaver however I am sure much stronger. The split was probably caused by our rough country roads that make short work of light weight products. Another item is the little grey locking tab on the flyscreen/blind system. I have replaced all at least once as they split across the middle. If made of aluminium not plastic I am sure they would not break. Maybe a move to a 4500kg upper mass limit on a standard drivers license would change the weight/strength dynamic. cheers,

[Clive_Adams]

Think these last two are very good points, as time goes on people’s need changes, we all want more bells and whistles, we all would like more space in what is a fairly restricted parameter 3500, also construction methods are changing and mostly for the better, although I am no so sure it’s directly related to the weight issue. The end result of course is that certain manufacturers even 5 years ago may have been perceived as good built quality may have slipped in the tables and vice versa. The other point is that “German” vans for instance are probably no longer made in Germany, my last 5 have been “German”, the first was assembled in Germany the second France the next two in Hungary and my present one in Slovenia I am not complaining as the German Quality Controls have generally been adhered to. At the end of the day it’s all very subjective.

 

[mgnbuk]

Early days with our Carado T339 (took delivery 2nd August this year & 18 nights away since then), but so far it is by far the best built of the 5 motorhomes we have owned.

 

No build quality issues, neat workmanship even when it can't easily be seen & everything just works as it should. After 2 1/2 years with two troublesome Chausson Welcome 610s (bought for their layout, which suited us very well) I bought the Carado on the basis of build quality. I did a lot of research online (and questioning owners) for both Carado & Sunlight (same basic vans built on the same production lines with different trim) & found nothing of note from disgruntled owners. Write-ups in German magazines on new vans & buying used frequently comment on them being "very well made" and, having all but dismantled one at the dealers before I committed to buy, I can only agree.

 

I got to see my van less than 12 hours after it was delivered to the dealer straight from the factory & it was pretty well pristine throughout - just the faintest hint of sawdust on one cabinet panel was all I found. All cupboards clean & doors aligned, wiring & pipework neatly clipped up everywhere, sealant neatly finished off - it gave the impression of being built by people who cared about the product & built up to a standard, not rushed out of the door to meet a target. The Owner's manual is very comprehensive, in an easy to use spiral bound format and in English only - no wading through several languages to find the information required. Even the payload matched the brochure !

 

The only issue that has come up is that I noticed that the handbrake cable had come un-clipped from the chassis rail when I had a towbar fitted - sorted in under an hour by the dealer.

 

The experience of driving & using it has only confirmed the initial impressions. It is by far the quietest van we have used - less road & wind noise, no cabinet or blind related squeaks or rattles, heating controls easy to get at & the heating is quiet & warms the van evenly, storage spaces ventilated to control condensation & no draughts. So far it has just worked which, after 2 1/2 years of persistant Chausson problems, makes a very welcome change.

 

They may be fairly basic and not of the most "modern" construction techniques as some others, but they do seem to be very well made.

 

Nigel B

[david lloyd]

Some valid points have been made but, as someone who has had British, German, French and American Motorhomes over the years, I feel I can offer a true insight into best the of them - albeit this still remains my own personal view and may not reflect the views of others or the original poster - pike.

 

Without a shadow of doubt the worst for us in terms of build quality and usability were the Americans. Of the Germans (Hymer, Malibu, La Strada, Westfalia, Hobby) the 2015 Hymer B544 was the best. But although there are differences in the way European and British vans are screwed together, we now find our present Autosleeper Worcester on a Mercedes chassis (first one we have had on that chassis) is every bit as good as the Hymer. It's not the only Autosleeper we have had and we also have experience of IH, Autocruise and Compass but can honestly say both Autosleepers have been the best.

 

On a point made by those who place Hymer high on the list of quality + longevity I would add that, similarly, of all the older British built Motorhomes still running round and giving good service Autosleeper types seem to be the most prevalent.

 

David

[goldi]

Geeco - 2019-11-07 3:36 AM

 

HymerVan - 2019-11-06 10:07 AMi think it is quite difficult to  ore modern vans have more toys e.g. microwaves or whatever and in order to keep weight below the 3500 kg limited this has lead to lighter forms of construction. Looking at a brand new (European as it happens) van recently I felt that the construction was vey light and therefore wondered about longevity.

 

With the max weight of 3500kg to drive on a  standard UK car licence I wonder if this has caused manufacturers to sometimes go right to the limit on the weight vs strength equation? A good example of my point is recently I needed to replace the bathroom toilet vertical door jam as the screws from the bottom hinge has caused the jam to split. It is a very light item that was made from what looks like MDF. The replacement item was an aluminium extrusion a little heaver however I am sure much stronger. The split was probably caused by our rough country roads that make short work of light weight products. Another item is the little grey locking tab on the flyscreen/blind system. I have replaced all at least once as they split across the middle. If made of aluminium not plastic I am sure they would not break. Maybe a move to a 4500kg upper mass limit on a standard drivers license would change the weight/strength dynamic. cheers,

 

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen,

 

 

Dead right Geeco, For decades I have thought that 3500kg has been an overstressed chassis.

 

 

[Sydney1]

longtemps - 2019-11-06 10:29 PM

 

After three new Autotrail's on the trot, where each one actually was worse on quality than the last, I have finally had enough. The catalogue of complaints has been eye watering, thankfully my dealer has always been supportive and in fairness, Autotrail have never turned down a warranty claim. But enough is enough, never again will I buy British made. I have now purchased a new continental made van for delivery next year. I have no conscience on the matter regarding British jobs etc; the quality such companies impose on their customers simply does not merit success in these difficult times.

 

Have to agree. Purchased a new AT in 2012 and had damp issues every year of ownership the last time it needed to go back to AT for 3 months. They never quibbled about doing the work and dealer excellent but the last thing you want to worry about everything it rains is your expensive vehicle leaking or you getting wet. If I didn't mind getting wet, I'd have stuck to a tent.

 

When changing, we had a look look around and from a mid range price point, the Burstners and Dethleffs looked well put together and so far, very happy with our choice.I think we will be sticking with Continental next time around

[Guest pelmetman]

david lloyd - 2019-11-07 12:34 PM

 

Some valid points have been made but, as someone who has had British, German, French and American Motorhomes over the years, I feel I can offer a true insight into best the of them - albeit this still remains my own personal view and may not reflect the views of others or the original poster - pike.

 

Without a shadow of doubt the worst for us in terms of build quality and usability were the Americans. Of the Germans (Hymer, Malibu, La Strada, Westfalia, Hobby) the 2015 Hymer B544 was the best. But although there are differences in the way European and British vans are screwed together, we now find our present Autosleeper Worcester on a Mercedes chassis (first one we have had on that chassis) is every bit as good as the Hymer. It's not the only Autosleeper we have had and we also have experience of IH, Autocruise and Compass but can honestly say both Autosleepers have been the best.

 

On a point made by those who place Hymer high on the list of quality + longevity I would add that, similarly, of all the older British built Motorhomes still running round and giving good service Autosleeper types seem to be the most prevalent.

 

David

 

I concur with older Autosleepers ;-) .......

 

My old man had two.... a PVC and a Coachbuilt they were only sold because his gut would lift the table when he got up in the PVC :D .......

 

He sold the Coachbuilt because the VW part frequently broke down :-| ........