mikebeaches Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 The Chancellor announced plans for new VED arrangements from 2017. According to an item in the Daily Mail (sorry): "But Mr Osborne said this meant middle class motorists with expensive cars were avoiding road tax while poor families stuck with polluting old models were paying hundreds of pounds a year. The Chancellor announced a new system would come into force in 2017, which will see 95 per cent of new cars paying £140 a year - less than the average £166 paid today. However, cars worth more than £40,000 will be hit with an extra £310 'surcharge'." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3153506/Road-tax-band-140-fall-95-new-cars-2017-Chancellor-overhauls-vehicle-excise-duty.html If I understand that correctly, new cars costing £40,000 or more will be charged total VED of £450 pa for the first five years. BUT, where does that leave VED for motorhomes? Particularly those that cost more than £40k - which will be most by 2017. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Mike, what you say appears correct as similar facts are reported on BBC web site which trust more than Daily Mail. So just as sales of new motorhomes are picking up Osborne introduces a measure which will result in depressing sales. Bad news for manufactures, dealers and anyone looking to purchase a new motorhome from April 2017 onwards. And this from a government that it is supposed to be pro business and help people who aspire to owning goods such as motorhomes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If our van had been registered with co2, under this system it would be charged £1200 for first year and £450 for the next five years, then £140, not sure what it would be at moment p.s. At present rate it would be £640 for first year and £290 for every year after. p.p.s. we actually pay £230 at moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 So you expect the poor to continue to pay for everything....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I wonder if this new VED applies to M/H's over 3500kg ? ie PHG's. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Having just read this report, I was considering some creative thinking. Thus if one were to buy a car and caravan, say car at £23k, caravan £20k, thus over £40k for a recreation vehicle, but below the band, obviously. Could Motorhome manufacturers operate in a similar way - £23k base vehicle £20k conversion, thus vehicle is below the band? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 As far as I'm concerned the whole idea of zero ved was fatally flawed from the beginning, quite why duty is not raised by adding it to fuel duty is a mystery, a direct correlation between road wear and cost to use the roads would seem to be the most equitable way of doing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 So what's happening to the VED rates for pre 2001 vehicles? :-S ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Joe90 - 2015-07-09 7:59 AM As far as I'm concerned the whole idea of zero ved was fatally flawed from the beginning, quite why duty is not raised by adding it to fuel duty is a mystery, a direct correlation between road wear and cost to use the roads would seem to be the most equitable way of doing things. Quiet agree. I have always thought that "ROAD tAX" should be cancelled, and the cost of fuel should rise. Would save on admin costs at dvla, and the cost would be fairly distributed to the grater road users. Sadly this will not happen, as it would also make the cost of distribution of goods higher. How often do you see foreign registered vehicles (Lorries) fill up? They come over here with large fuel tanks, use our roads, and don't contribute to the wear and tear cost, and go back over the water and fill up with cheaper fuel! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 PJay - 2015-07-09 8:18 AM Joe90 - 2015-07-09 7:59 AM As far as I'm concerned the whole idea of zero ved was fatally flawed from the beginning, quite why duty is not raised by adding it to fuel duty is a mystery, a direct correlation between road wear and cost to use the roads would seem to be the most equitable way of doing things. Quiet agree. I have always thought that "ROAD tAX" should be cancelled, and the cost of fuel should rise. Would save on admin costs at dvla, and the cost would be fairly distributed to the grater road users. Sadly this will not happen, as it would also make the cost of distribution of goods higher. How often do you see foreign registered vehicles (Lorries) fill up? They come over here with large fuel tanks, use our roads, and don't contribute to the wear and tear cost, and go back over the water and fill up with cheaper fuel! PJay The vast majority of 'road tax' is raised from duty on fuel, so the higher millage and/or consumers of fuel pay much more to use roads than those doing low millage, the consequence of this is trucks fill up in France before crossing the channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVNeal Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 The concept of VED (road tax) being used to maintain our road systems is naïve. It is all taxation to fund the running of our administration and so, given the high levels of duty on fuel, anyone purchasing fuel in the UK, whether a Brit or a foreigner, is contributing to the overall running of our country, a very small part of which is the very small maintenance plan for our road network. As Brits we are just putting more in the pot by being forced to pay VED on top! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It would appear from this link http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tax/budget-2015-new-ved-bands-to-be-introduced-from-2017/ that the from-April-1-2017 VED system will still be based on CO2 emissions. If that’s correct and motorhome Certificates of Conformity continue to show no CO2 datum indefinitely, the 2017 system will not apply to new motorhomes and these will continue to fall into the historicl PLG or PHG categories. Obviously, if the CofCs of up-to-3500 MTPLM new motorhomes costing £40k+ do show a CO2 datum, it’s going to be expensive VED-wise from 1/4/2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm in favour of VED being used to fund the road infrastructure and fuel tax being a charge on the use of that infrastructure. Makes sense to me. No different to paying the standing charges for utilities, the call out charge for a workman etc. Almost everyone, no matter what mileage, benefits from having the infrastructure so they should pay towards it. As tax payers we have lost sight of where our money goes and so I'd like us to return to the days when there was a clearer link rather than just some big pot of money for the Government to spend and waste. Osbournes statement, despite the vagaries which he seems to enjoy, should make that link for roads and if we continue this way, should make Government more accountable for spend. It reduces the risk of us going back to some of the bad habits of all parties where they spent money they didn't have. How about a specific duty to fund our health and social services. Oh wait, National Insurance was introduced for health and unemployment/benefits wasn't it? As Income tax was raised to pay for wars perhaps it is not a good idea to link every tax/duty. Sorry to digress from road tax which is rightly a motorhome matters issue whereas general taxation and duty is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-07-09 9:30 AM It would appear from this link http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tax/budget-2015-new-ved-bands-to-be-introduced-from-2017/ that the from-April-1-2017 VED system will still be based on CO2 emissions. If that’s correct and motorhome Certificates of Conformity continue to show no CO2 datum indefinitely, the 2017 system will not apply to new motorhomes and these will continue to fall into the historicl PLG or PHG categories. Obviously, if the CofCs of up-to-3500 MTPLM new motorhomes costing £40k+ do show a CO2 datum, it’s going to be expensive VED-wise from 1/4/2017. I guess old George reckons that someone who can afford to spend 40+k on a camper, can also afford the surcharge ;-) ................. I suspect it'll have a positive effect on the prices of 2nd hand campers, but a negative effect on the new UK market, with more buyers going shopping in the EU :-| ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I can see the idea of splitting the vehicle and conversion working for the bespoke converters. It would presumabky be quite simple to structurte the deal so that the customer buys the base vehicle from the manufacturer/dealer and pays for the conversion seperately. Not sure what is involved from an accounting perspective, or whether manufaturers would see it as worthwhile for an overall saving of around £1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 The 2017 revised VED structure will still be based on the CO2 emissions figure of a ‘car' (ie. a motor vehicle up to 3500kg MTPLM) as stated by the car’s manufacturer and recorded on the car’s Type Approval Certificate of Conformity (CofC). This should be apparent from this AutoExpress article http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/92131/budget-2015-new-road-fund-and-car-tax-overhaul-announced Historically, if a motor-caravan’s CofC did carry a CO2 datum (as was the case with VW’s “California” model) the DVLA chose to ignore this and assigned the vehicle to the PLG or PHG VED Class according to the motor-caravan’s MTPLM. More recently the DVLA has said that, if an up-to-3500kg-MTPLM motor-caravan’s CofC carries a CO2 datum that figure will be used and, instead of the vehicle being classed as PLG, it will be placed in the appropriate emissions-related VED band. As will be seen from the AutoExpress link, there is no intention to dispense with the emissions-related VED bands. What will alter is that there will be a standard annual VED rate of £140 (rather than the present multiple annual rates) and new ‘cars’ with a list-price of over £40k will - for the first 5 years following registration - have an annual VED rate of £450 rather than £140. Post 1 April 2017, if a 3500kg MPTLM motorhome’s CofC has no CO2 datum, it can’t be put in the CO2-emissions-related VED bands. Hence (unless the DVLA creates a specific “Motor Caravan” VED class) there seems to be no alternative but to continue with the present anachronistic PLG/PHG MTPLM-related arrangement. It won’t matter what the list-price of the motorhome is unless (as at present) the vehicle’s CofC has a CO2 figure. Aandy’s suggestion could be attractive if a base-vehicle’s CofC has a CO2 datum - if not, the list-price won’t matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 What's the betting that new range of £39,999 vehicles will be marketed, with an add-on pack to be fitted after purchase? Things like alloys, leather seats, sat nav all as extras. In my learning to drive days a Land rover's extras list included a heater, passenger seat, locks, spare wheel and even second windscreen wiper. I don't think this has been thought through yet, but an extra £1,500 on a £40,000 vehicle could be absorbed by the seller and offered as a discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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