Robinhood Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Rather surprisingly, the latest "controversy" on vehicle tax for motorhomes appears to have been resolved. Attached from the NCC twitter feed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Wow somebody actually listened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Unfortunately the gov.uk website has printed the wrong details. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-excise-duty-rates-for-motorhomes-from-12-march-2020/vehicle-excise-duty-rates-for-motorhomes But phg rate will go up to plg rate, and "align the VED with vans" sounds ominous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Positive in principal, although I recall that there is a proposal for 21/22 to move to an emissions based VED system for vans to incentivise the purchase of more environmentally friendly vehicles over the more polluting ones. I’m not aware how the numbers would look although ultimately if motorhomes are treated the same as vans there’s nothing to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Billggski - 2020-03-11 5:02 PM But phg rate will go up to plg rate, and "align the VED with vans" sounds ominous! The budget costings refer to 'some motorhomes holding derogations and not being registered as cars' and excludes them from the tax base, which sort of implies to me that PHGV will continue, possibly at a lower rate, at least until 1/4/21. Aligning motorhome VED with vans precludes them from the £2135 luxury car tax (which vans > £40,000 don't pay), but from 1/4/21 van VED will be CO2-related so presumably motorhome VED will be too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper520 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Robinhood - 2020-03-11 3:47 PM Rather surprisingly, the latest "controversy" on vehicle tax for motorhomes appears to have been resolved. Attached from the NCC twitter feed.... I’ve recently ordered a new PVC (Sunlight Cliff 600), does that mean the initial £2000+ tax is scrapped? Or is it still in place, but the following years are £265 (£270 from next year) and not the £485 I’d been expecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper520 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 The information appearing online seems to say the VED, from 12/03/2020, will be £265.........I’ve emailed the dealer I’m buying from! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Sapper520 - 2020-03-11 8:09 PM The information appearing online seems to say the VED, from 12/03/2020, will be £265.........I’ve emailed the dealer I’m buying from! :-D Hi What have you said in your email, i'm due to pick up new van in 7 days time and was going to phone tomorrow Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 There should be a full summary paper available from HMRC online. Unfortunately, they have posted entirely the wrong paper (no relationship whatsoever) under the motorhome heading. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-excise-duty-rates-for-motorhomes-from-12-march-2020 (I have sent them a message saying so) There is a by-line on that page, however, which is: This measure will result in new motorhomes (type approved M1SA) being included in the Private/Light Goods Vehicle or Private Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV) Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) class from 12 March 2020.. I suspect that should be M1SP, which is conventional for motorhomes (I can't find an M1SA category anywhere), and I would interpret that things will revert to the old rules for VED for the time being. (The paper that isn't attached would probably be more informative). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper520 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 paul2 - 2020-03-11 8:19 PM Sapper520 - 2020-03-11 8:09 PM The information appearing online seems to say the VED, from 12/03/2020, will be £265.........I’ve emailed the dealer I’m buying from! :-D Hi What have you said in your email, i'm due to pick up new van in 7 days time and was going to phone tomorrow Paul I don’t pick mine until September. I’ve asked them to check today’s budget and can we discuss the new price. Hopefully they haven’t taxed it for you yet. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper520 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Robinhood - 2020-03-11 8:25 PM There should be a full summary paper available from HMRC online. Unfortunately, they have posted entirely the wrong paper (no relationship whatsoever) under the motorhome heading. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-excise-duty-rates-for-motorhomes-from-12-march-2020 (I have sent them a message saying so) There is a by-line on that page, however, which is: This measure will result in new motorhomes (type approved M1SA) being included in the Private/Light Goods Vehicle or Private Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV) Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) class from 12 March 2020.. I suspect that should be M1SP, which is conventional for motorhomes (I can't find an M1SA category anywhere), and I would interpret that things will revert to the old rules for VED for the time being. (The paper that isn't attached would probably be more informative). The Government site makes no sense at all! However, a number of articles are starting to appear online. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Thank goodness that common sense has prevailed. And upgrading to a newer motorhome with a more environmentally friendly Engine will NOT now be punished with punitive taxation somebody realised how peverse the change was. Good for the manufacturers and dealers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Sapper520 - 2020-03-11 8:41 PM paul2 - 2020-03-11 8:19 PM Sapper520 - 2020-03-11 8:09 PM The information appearing online seems to say the VED, from 12/03/2020, will be £265.........I’ve emailed the dealer I’m buying from! :-D Hi What have you said in your email, i'm due to pick up new van in 7 days time and was going to phone tomorrow Paul I don’t pick mine until September. I’ve asked them to check today’s budget and can we discuss the new price. Hopefully they haven’t taxed it for you yet. ;-) Hi I have spoke to dealer today they have not taxed van yet and will not talk about price until they have check everything for themselves . Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper520 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 If they haven’t taxed it then they will only have to pay £265 from today. They won’t lose on the deal as the tax goes to the government anyway, but they could gain a lot if the still charge you the £2000+. Surely they won’t charge you anyway? I’m still waiting for a reply from my dealer (Guy I’m dealing with is away until tomorrow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Although this article on the recent budget and VED relates directly to car tax, it is a reminder that it’s a moving target and I suspect that if cars are targeted vans would not be far behind. Of particular concern is the proposal that it could be backdated to 2017 vehicles. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8101177/Car-tax-proposal-buried-Budget-drivers-pay-2-000.html (other sources are available) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 The HMRC document link has now been corrected: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-excise-duty-rates-for-motorhomes-from-12-march-2020/vehicle-excise-duty-rates-for-motorhomes It would appear that those who have been caught in the short window up to today of the CO2 related VED will continue to be affected by this issue, registrations as from today will revert to the previous PLG/PHG arrangements (for now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper520 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Confirmation from dealer of reduction in VED....... :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 It will be interesting to see if the change in policy will be applied to VW “California” campervans that have - for several years - been assigned to the UK graduated emissions VED classes. (Examples of resultant cost here) https://www.parkers.co.uk/volkswagen/california/estate-2015/car-tax/ The wording of the gov.uk guidance is peculiar From 12 March 2020, new motorhomes (type approved M1SA) will no longer need to provide their CO2 emissions figure when they register the vehicle. but my understanding is that it is supposed to indicate that, when a motorhome dealer registers a new motorhome, the dealer need not (should not?) provide a CO2 emissions figure even if the motorhome’s final-stage Type Approval Certificate of Conformity carries a CO2 value. So it will also be interesting to see how the DVLA reacts (or the DVLA’s software reacts) when a private individual (ie. a non-dealer) applies for UK registration of a new 'self-imported’ motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Slightly off topic but I've not come across type approval M1SA before it appeared in this statement. Google only finds the same single occurence. Has M1SA replaced type M1SP or is it a typo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 But, following the link Bob provided above, there is more. HMRC says: "From 12 March 2020, new motorhomes (type approved M1SA) will no longer need to provide their CO2 emissions figure when they register the vehicle. As a result, new motorhomes will be included in the Private/Light Goods VED class or the Private HGV VED class if they weigh over 3,500kg. Then, from 1 April 2021, VED for new motorhomes will be aligned with the Light Goods Vehicle VED class M1SA vehicles are defined as motor caravans in Part A of Annex II to Directive 2007/46/EC. The minimum requirement is that a motor caravan includes seats and a table; sleeping accommodation; and cooking and storage facilities. Policy objective This measure ensures that new motorhomes with the latest engine technology do not attract significant VED increases as a result of Commission Regulation (EU) 2017/1151. This requires any multi-stage build, including those type approved M1SA, to record the carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions and fuel consumption on their certificate of conformity. Background to the measure This measure was announced at Budget 2020 and will be legislated for in Finance Bill 2020. Detailed proposal Operative date The change in the law will apply from 12 March 2020. [red]Motorhomes (type approved M1SA) first registered prior to 12 March 2020, with an eligible CO2 emissions figure, will pay graduated VED as a petrol or diesel car.[/red]" (My bold red above.) Which I take to mean that if your van was registered before 12 March 2020 with it's payable rate of VED based on its exhaust emissions, that rate of VED will not be retrospectively altered. Also, note that the above appears to say that all motorhomes registered after 1/4/21, irrespective of their MAM, will be subject to VED at the PLG rate. So the anomaly of PHGV motorhomes getting a lower rate of VED that PLG motorhomes seems now to have been abolished. In passing, whether or not one agrees with the "polluter pays" principle, the attempt to hang all this on Commission Regulation (EU) 2017/1151 seems to me a bit rich. It wasn't the EU that instructed HMG to hang payable VED rates on CoC recorded CO2 emissions, it was our very own HMG acting all on its own. In any case, Commission Regulation (EU) 2017/1151 doesn't deal with vehicle tax at all, it requires all type approved vehicles to be fitted with on-board diagnostics(OBD) systems - from the dates, I suspect in the light of Volkswagen's notorious cheat on emissions. Strange how even after we've left, they still like to blame the EU for their own unpopular policies, ain't it?! I'll get me own coat. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-03-15 11:54 AM Also, note that the above appears to say that all motorhomes registered after 1/4/21, irrespective of their MAM, will be subject to VED at the PLG rate. So the anomaly of PHGV motorhomes getting a lower rate of VED that PLG motorhomes seems now to have been abolished. Not quite, it says that they will be aligned with the light goods vehicle class, which is apparently going to be based on emissions rated bandings similar to the current petrol and diesel car tax classes from April 2021, so I would expect the annual charge to be substantially more than the current PLG or PHGV rates. So the apparent "U-turn" on motorhome VED could be short lived. There has also been a suggestion that consideration is being given to the luxury vehicle tax element of the car tax classes being an annual charge continuing for the life of a newly registered vehicle from April 2021, and how light goods vehicle bands might compare to car bands is anyone's guess. Of course, as the usual government modus operandi is to spread rumours about a worst case scenario and then water down the actual legislation so that we public think we've actually been treated fairly at the end of the day, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 “M1SP” is a sub-category of the Type Approval “M1” class and (according to a late-2019 DVLA statement) applies to motorhomes, ambulances, armoured vehicles, wheelchair accessible vehicles and hearses, with “SP” indicating “Special Purpose”. The Rapido Certificate of Conformity for my motorhome indicates that it is a "véhicule à usage spécial” and conforms to the category “SA Autocaravane”. This French website https://www.code-de-la-route.be/textes-legaux/sections/ar/reglement-technique-des-vehicules/115-art1-v15-115 defines the various vehicle classifications and buried in the document is this information: 9. Véhicules à usages spéciaux Véhicules à usages spéciaux: SA Autocaravanes SB Véhicules blindés SC Ambulances SD Corbillards SE Caravanes SF Grues mobiles SG Autres véhicules à usage spécial SH Véhicule accessible en fauteuil roulant. which translates to 9. Special purpose vehicles Special purpose vehicles: SA Motorhomes SB Armored vehicles SC Ambulances SD Hearses SE Caravans SF Mobile cranes SG Other special purpose vehicles SH Wheelchair accessible vehicle. So M1SA is apparently the sub-sub-category that applies to motorhomes, within the sub-category M1SP, within the M1 class. It was apparent that the revised stance regarding VED was not going to affect motorhomes registered prior to 12 March 2020. I just found it interesting (amusing) that an owner of a VW “California” campervan registered on Thursday 12 March would pay £265 VED, while the VED for an owner of a VW “California” campervan registered the previous day would cost a small fortune. As Deneb has said, what happens from 1 April 2021 is up for grabs. If it’s to be argued by the NCC et al that motor caravans should be treated as a special case VED-wise, the logical approach would be to forget trying to cram such vehicles into existing VED classes and create a dedicated VED class for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 ......and of course since 1st March was the changeover to the 20 plate, there will have been a lot registered on those 12 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-03-15 2:38 PM So M1SA is apparently the sub-sub-category that applies to motorhomes, within the sub-category M1SP, within the M1 class. Thank you Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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