aandncaravan Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I am not totally sure of my facts here, so it needs ratifying, but apparently there is a new Bill going through Parliament that is intended to prevent the delivery of a Car or Leisure battery to a residential address. That might mean the end of buying Leisure batteries online with next day delivery. There is the new Offensive Weapons Bill that is attempting to limit the purchase/supply of corrosive substances that may be used in attacks on persons, like battery acid. Too many 'local' businesses of all types are disappearing, due to big online operations, and I think that is a real shame. However, many of the smaller Battery seller operations have low turnover of battery stock making buying a Leisure battery from them a bit of a lottery as to whether it is already past it best before it's even been installed. They often have limited choice and are significantly more expensive, my own local battery stockist charges almost 20% more for a Varta LFD90 than Tayna, for example. Overall, I think losing the ability of buying 'choice' for delivery to my home would be bad for the Motorhome/Caravan community. What I don't understand about the Bill is how stopping a person buying a battery for delivery to my House, limits Acid 'getting onto the street' when they can still buy a battery with Acid in it from a local shop? Is it practical to 'lobby' the Bill, do people want to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Seems very odd to me Allan. If it is due to the OW Bill then what next? Ban sales of cheap long shaft screwdrivers or steak knives off market stalls? Both can be extremely lethal weapons. But as you say, you can still buy a battery from any car accessory shop so i can't see the logic there. :-S Maybe accessory shops are going to be given a 21 age limit like supermarkets have on cigs and booze which is bonkers as both items can be purchased legally by 16yr old and 18 respectively. They just go to the nearest Bargain Booze or newsagent instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Some interesting reading links for you. Proposed bill... https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2017-2019/0265/cbill_2017-20190265_en_1.htm (see - Section3 and Schedule 1 near end of doc) Written evidence submitted by the Independent Automotive Aftermarket Federation’s https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmpublic/OffensiveWeapons/memo/OWB182.htm Written evidence on the Offensive Weapons Bill submitted by John-Paul Gabbott of Alpha Batteries Ltd' https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmpublic/OffensiveWeapons/memo/OWB169.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 <<< Ban sales of cheap long shaft screwdrivers or steak knives off market stalls? Both can be extremely lethal weapons. But as you say, you can still buy a battery from any car accessory shop so i can't see the logic there. >>> Hi, Logic? Maybe the traditional battery vendors are whinging to their MPs about losing business to the on-line traders. Did you know that old plasterboard is considered hazardous waste? How about restricting the sale of cricket stumps? Or introducing a British Standard for hot beverages sold in public places? Motor vehicles have become the weapon of choice of terrorists. Best ban them too. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 I have written to the Chief executive of the IAAF this morning. See what comes back? EDIT - Just received a reply at 09:09 from Wendy Williams herself, but doesn't say much - "Hi Allan, Thanks for your note and I will consult with our battery members on your comments. Kind regards Wendy Williamson Chief Executive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Rather like the dangerous dogs act, a knee-jerk reaction so as to be seen to be doing something, with poorly drafted legislation and little thought for the potential wider impact. It's a classic government response to any perceived problem, 'we have to be seen to do something, this is something, so it will do' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 Acid attacks are deplorable and the issue needs to be addressed, there is no question in my mind of that. Any legislation, even flawed, that reduces some of the horrific injuries seen on the news is a move in the right direction, IMO. However, that shouldn't stop us helping to guide that direction, and that is what I would prefer this thread to be about. What positive things can we do to protect what has become a huge benefit for the Motorhome and Caravan community. Buying good, fresh batteries on line with next day delivery has transformed the quality of battery we can get. The way I see it, and how I portrayed it to Wendy Williamson, was that the issue of Acid attacks is serious but a £100+ Motorhome/Caravan Leisure battery is highly unlikely to be bought for it's 35% strength acid content. There are much cheaper options. Secondly the best batteries are 'Sealed' batteries, while they are 'vented', they don't have removable screw tops to enable the acid to be drained easily so again unlikely to be bought as an Acid source. So I argued these should be exempt from any postal restriction. On the other hand, low cost batteries with 'open' screw tops might be used to source the Acid (and additionally are far less safe to send by 'Post') so I can see possible (but not necessarily sound) reasons to restrict these. Therefore I would like to propose that all 'Sealed' (as in no easy access to the Acid) and VRLA batteries should be exempt from the restriction of - " 3.2 The seller commits an offence if, for the purposes of supplying the corrosive product to the buyer, the seller delivers the product, or arranges for its delivery, to residential premises". What do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Allan As far as I can see, the points you make were fully covered in the 2nd and 3rd links provided by Brambles in his posting of 18 September 2018 3:44 AM above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Considering the number of corrosive liquids that are on sale in the kitchen and bathroom cleansing sections of super markets, or can be taken from under the sink at home, it would seem that restricting battery acid is a step, but a very, very small one. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 For many years I used seconhand truck batteries bought from a breakers yard - cash paid, no receipt, take it away, no proof of sale or of id. Has this changed? Every scrap and abandoned car has a battery, and many garages, caravan and motorhome dealers, boatyards, marinas, have disused 'dead' batteries laying about - what is being done to remove these potentially far greater hazzards? If you buy with cash from a bona fide retailer they may ask for address etc details for the warranty which it would be easy to lie about, whereas at least with a mail order battery there is an audit trail of delivery address and payment details. I agree Allan's point that maybe fully sealed batteries should continue to be allowed to be bought by mail order, or over the counter, but maybe as an extension to that all batteries that are not sealed should be banned from new and used sale? But even sealed batteries can be easliy opened by anyone determined enough - but it still leaves the question - why would anyone up to no good go through the traceable route of buying mail order? As has been said it does sound like well intentioned but misguided legislation that will do nothing to solve the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAJay Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 tonyishuk - 2018-09-18 10:51 AM Considering the number of corrosive liquids that are on sale in the kitchen and bathroom cleansing sections of super markets, or can be taken from under the sink at home, it would seem that restricting battery acid is a step, but a very, very small one. Rgds Have to agree. I have bleach, which is dangerous. I have a pretty toxic oven cleaner in my cupboard, which incidentally, both can bought in the "cheap shops" We are becoming a namby pamby society IMO. Yes some things we use are dangerous, Will have to go back to eating our food with our fingers? Because knives and forks are dangerous? Crossing the road can be dangerous, walking down steps can be bad if you fall, you could break your neck. What next We bought a new battery for our MH on line, because we could not get the one we wanted locally I think the type of "Policing " required to keep us safe, needs looking at, more closely PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Some good points there Tracker, one of which highlights the disposal of 'spent' batteries. Definitely more need of legislation in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Perhaps if we had adequate police numbers to detect and solve such crimes that would be more effective at crime reduction not just of acid attacks but much other criminal activity too?. If the risk of being caught were higher, and the punishment more severe, that would be a far better deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Tracker - 2018-09-18 11:57 AM If you buy with cash from a bona fide retailer they may ask for address etc details for the warranty which it would be easy to lie about, whereas at least with a mail order battery there is an audit trail of delivery address and payment details. I bought a new starter battery this year from a local motor factors. Paid cash and given a dated receipt he told me to keep somewhere safe as thats the warranty. No address detail taken. But even sealed batteries can be easliy opened by anyone determined enough - but it still leaves the question - why would anyone up to no good go through the traceable route of buying mail order? Exactly as all mail order, ebay etc, is done via credit/debit card. Best course for those with ill intent is to go to an established motor factors and pay cash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAJay Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Tracker - 2018-09-18 12:14 PM Perhaps if we had adequate police numbers to detect and solve such crimes that would be more effective at crime reduction not just of acid attacks but much other criminal activity too?. If the risk of being caught were higher, and the punishment more severe, that would be a far better deterrent. So Agree Rich. What is "community work" that is dished out as punishment. ? Put them in a prison cell , NO Tv , back to sewing mails bags! As for their "Human Rights" . Some of them are hardly Human Lets hope after March, we can deport more of them ! PJay (I know this is not about batteries !) Just me letting off steam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I also have a battery booster / tyre inflator pack powered by a 20ah sealed 12v battery - I bought mine locally but are they to be banned by mail order too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Tracker - 2018-09-19 11:11 AM I also have a battery booster / tyre inflator pack powered by a 20ah sealed 12v battery - I bought mine locally but are they to be banned by mail order too? Depends if the bill is passed or not . https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 Please can someone close this thread? I had hoped to generate support to lobby rather than leave it to those who don't understand the implications for those who live outside a City or Town or want a fresh, new battery. (Done .. Derek Uzzell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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