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Calor Gas 11kg fitting
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userslowdriver
Posted: 27 June 2020 10:26 PM
Subject: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
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Location: Oxfordshire: La Strada Avanti EB 2020 LHD


My new imported camper-van can accommodate 2, 11kg Propane bottles. The heating on the van is diesel, so we do not anticipate necessarily needing to carry two bottles, certainly for short trips. (Our old VW Bilbo Celex, was also diesel heated, and we got by with 2 x 6kg Butane bottles).

My first question is: Will the connection the van comes with fit a UK 11 kg Propane bottle such as this from FloGas, or will I need an adaptor of some sort. If so, where might these be obtained?

https://tinyurl.com/y8tyokjr

I understand that a UK exchange cylinder, cannot be exchanged in Europe. In order to avoid the risk of running out on a longer trip, I could buy a continental 11kg Propane exchange cylinder, to supplement the one from Flogas. Does this sound plausible?
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 28 June 2020 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


From this earlier thread, I see you will be importing from Germany

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Weights-and-plating-the-new-van-/53617/

It’s not easy to advise on what type of gas connection your La Strada will come with.

If it has a bulkhead-mounted 30mbar gas regulator, it might be anticipated that the hose (‘pigtail’) that connects the regulator to the gas-bottle will be appropriate for a Germany-norm propane canister and - if that’s so - the simplest approach would be for you to swap that hose for a UK-standard propane pigtail (with POL end-connector) that is easily obtainable in this country.

However, there is the (perhaps small) possibility that La Strads fits a Germany-norm 30mbar ‘on-bottle’ propane regulator (that was the case when I imported a Hobby motorhome from Germany in 2005) and this would complicate matters.

Regarding overseas travel, you could obtain a foreign gas canister, but you need to be aware that there is no ‘universal’ foreign cylinder that can be exchanged in every European country.

I suggest you wait until your new La Strada arrives, see what gas equipment it has, and then revisit the subject here.

In the meantime, you might want to browse through this

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/GAS-IN-EUROPE/48534/
userRobinhood
Posted: 28 June 2020 9:41 AM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


...much will depend on the spec of the 'van, and possibly, if RHD it might come UK-equipped (I can't remember the detail of what you ordered).

The outlet connections on a German and UK propane bottle are entirely different (and incompatible). Whatever gas configuration you get, however, it is not over-difficult to overcome that.

It is most likely (but not absolutely a given) that your 'van will come with a "bulkhead mounted" gas regulator. The input side to this uses exchangeable gas "pigtails" (a bottle to regulator hose) where the bottle connections come in different types.

German propane bottles normally come with a 21.8LH connector and UK ones with a "Pol" connector. (The 21.8LH connector is very like a UK butane connection, but you shouldn't use a UK butane pigtail, as the rubber seal at the bottle end is in a different location).

so. assuming your 'van doesn't come from the factory UK-equipped....

.....to use Calor/Flogas, etc. with the bulkhead regulator you will need either a new UK "Pol" pigtail, or a German 21.8LH to Pol converter, and to replace the pigtail completely, or use the adapter between the existing pigtail and the bottle. If you're considering using a German bottle as backup, then the latter is probably more appropriate, it being slightly easier to unscrew the adapter than to change the pigtail back at changeover. Gaslow do a simple to use adapter at around £15.

https://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-1674

UK pigtails are widely available in rubber or stainless steel.

If you specified the extra-cost duo-control regulator, then two (different) bottles can be connected to the regulator at the same time. That would make it easier to use two different bottles at the same time, but the conversion method for the UK one remains the same (though a simple (see below) pigtail rather than adapter might be seen as more appropriate).

There is, however, another complication - the vehicle may (I think this is now very likely) be supplied with a "crash-safe" regulator, intended to allow the gas to be used on the move. These should incorporate a rupture-protected pigtail, which incorporates a valve which shuts under excess-flow conditions. Technically, if you intend to use the gas (not turn off at the bottle) on the move, then any new pigtail should be rupture-proof. They are, again, widely available but more expensive than a standard pigtail (frankly, with diesel heating I can see little reason why you would want to use gas on the move - but I would also be comfortable using an existing German rupture-proof hose and the Gaslow Pol adapter, given the solid brass design of the latter).

https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/gas/caravan-gas-fittings/gas-regulators/drive-safe-gas-regulators-truma/truma-drive-safe-regulator-high-pressure-hose-with-rupture-protection-propane

There is just a small (unlikely) chance that the 'van will be supplied with a bottle-top regulator. These are easy to change for the appropriate UK Pol-type, but must be securely mounted and clipped to the input hose to the 'van. It is important to ensure that the replacement regulates to the same pressure as that being replaced (I would expect 30mBar).

Whilst the gas-locker is sized for 11kg bottles, you will probably find it big enough to carry two UK 13kg ones (11kg is the standard German size - I haven't had one yet that won't take UK 13kg). You might want to consider whether a 13kg Calor might be the better option (AFAIK Flogas is still somewhat cheaper, Calor has the greater number of exchange locations). You can either measure up when you get your 'van, or "borrow" a 13kg and check.

If you've taken in the various requirements for different circumstances, the adapters/pigtails, etc. are widely available online or at UK accessory shops.

.

Edited by Robinhood 2020-06-28 9:45 AM
userslowdriver
Posted: 28 June 2020 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
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Location: Oxfordshire: La Strada Avanti EB 2020 LHD


Derek, Robin

Many thanks for the detailed responses. I received last week a PDF of the La Strada EB (LHD) manual. I should have included more info from there in my original post. I will re-read and digest both your posts today. In the meantime, here are (I hope !) photos in JPG format of the gas locker, and the Truma Mono regulator. These I think confirm your assumptions as to the default German configuration.



(Gas-Locker.jpg)



(La-Strada-Truma-Gas-Monocontrol-with-crash-sensor.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Gas-Locker.jpg (62KB - 9 downloads)
Attachments La-Strada-Truma-Gas-Monocontrol-with-crash-sensor.jpg (63KB - 7 downloads)
userRobinhood
Posted: 28 June 2020 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


Yup. That's the newer design bulkhead-mounted Monocontrol CS (I don't think Truma even do non-CS regulators now) which was introduced last year. It is similar to the new Duocontrol CS which replaced my older model of the same under warranty in Germany last year (the new design hadn't made the UK at that time).

The "pigtail" is the rupture-protected version that should be used for proper "CS" use, and that one looks like the conventional 21.8LH German propane.

So: you either add the Gaslow type Pol adapter and have a reasonably quick way of switching between UK/German bottles (and especially if you don't intend using gas on the move, though, as I've said, I wouldn't personally have any issues with that setup), - you can see from the pics it's going to be easier to work at the bottle-end of the pigtail to change-over, or you replace the German pigtail with a UK POL one (CS rupture protected preferably, or a cheaper non-CS one if you must and you're definitely going to turn off bottles on the move).

If you get supplied with what's in the picture, and not a UK propane pigtail, my own practice would be to add the Gaslow adapter. (edited to add Note to fit the adapter to a *German* 21.8LH pigtail, as opposed to a UK 21.8LH butane one, you need an additional washer as detailed at the bottom of the page in the link in my previous post. (as already posted, the German 21.8LH propane, and UK 21.8LH butane have slightly different sealing systems, the adapter can be used with either but the extra washer corrects for this).

Edited by Robinhood 2020-06-28 11:17 AM
userConrad
Posted: 28 June 2020 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
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Despite the extra initial cost, I'm convinced cylinders you can refill yourself are the best option. Cheaper per litre of gas, can make sure it's full before you start your holiday (ours last about 14 days, cooking for two and fridge when not on hook-up at a site), and as and when we go abroad, we'll have not have the problem you get with Calor of not being unable to exchange to bottle.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 28 June 2020 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


slowdriver - 2020-06-27 10:26 PM

My new imported camper-van can accommodate 2, 11kg Propane bottles. The heating on the van is diesel, so we do not anticipate necessarily needing to carry two bottles, certainly for short trips. (Our old VW Bilbo Celex, was also diesel heated, and we got by with 2 x 6kg Butane bottles).

My first question is: Will the connection the van comes with fit a UK 11 kg Propane bottle such as this from FloGas, or will I need an adaptor of some sort. If so, where might these be obtained?

https://tinyurl.com/y8tyokjr

I understand that a UK exchange cylinder, cannot be exchanged in Europe. In order to avoid the risk of running out on a longer trip, I could buy a continental 11kg Propane exchange cylinder, to supplement the one from Flogas. Does this sound plausible?

The generality of your query has already been dealt with by Derek and Robinhood.

However, regarding your final question on gas, yes you can do that. Until 2017, when we got the present van, we'd always travelled with one UK 13kg Calor propane cylinder and one French 13 kg Butagaz propane cylinder. The latter because all our continental trips began and ended in France - irrespective of wherever else we went - and because of the ready availability of Butagaz at almost all supermarkets with fuel pumps. The cylinder connectors differ, so one "pigtail" was UK propane and the other UK butane, which just happens to coincide with French propane. The last three have also had the "crash-safe" type regulator referred to by Robinhood, and I have had no difficulty sourcing the rupture protected pigtails for these.

All have had bulkhead mounted auto-changeover valves, so that whenever a cylinder ran out the next switched in. The best of these had a light on its control switch which illuminated when the reserve switched in, meaning no need to periodically investigate inside the gas locker to see the state of the valve. Depending on the ease of access to the gas locker in your new van, you may wish to adopt this type of valve, especially that with the indicator. The first law of gas cylinders is that they always run out half way through cooking a meal, after dark, when it is raining cats and dogs - so at the worst possible time exploring gas lockers!

However, the present van was not as other vans, and arrived from Germany with a single, German, cylinder mount, regulator - which surprised me, as the rest of the van spec was relatively high.

I should perhaps add that all four vans have been imports, the first a personal import from France with a dealer fitted Italian made changeover valve, and the next three from Germany via Bundesvan (sadly, no longer trading). The first of these had a Truma Duo Control CS regulators with EisEx heater, the second having EisEx plus the remote indicator DuoC. However number three, the present van, as above, was supplied with a cylinder mounted regulator which I had replaced (very neatly) with a Duo Control by John's Cross Motorcaravans.

This leads me to my final point. Whereas the gas locker on the present van can accommodate two German 11kg cylinders, unlike all the others it cannot accommodate two UK or French 13kg cylinders. I have therefore had to adopt a different strategy, which might possibly be where you end up.

The French Butagaz 13kg propane cylinders have no shroud around the gas cock, so are shorter and less bulky overall at the top than UK cylinders. With the Duo Control in place (ceiling mounted in the gas locker) it is possible to get these in and connected, and to operate the gas cock as necessary. The 13kg Calor propane, however, with its bulky shroud around the gas cock, is too tall for the locker with the Duo Control fitted, but a Flogas 11kg propane cylinder, even with its gas cock shroud, will just fit without fouling the Duo Control. The problem with both these is that, being larger in diameter than the German 11kg cylinders, they are just too large fit into the gas locker together.

So enter "Plan C". Buy a Flogas 6kg cylinder, which is both shorter and slimmer than the other two and, despite its gas cock shroud, will fit into the locker (providing it goes in first!), allowing just enough space to manoeuvre either the French 13kg Butagaz, or the UK 11kg Flogas, in alongside. They are a snug fit, but all gas cocks, pigtails, rupture protection valves (which have to be set when the gas is first turned on at the cylinder), connectors, and the Duo Control, can be reached as necessary.

We therefore now travel with the French 13kg cylinder as the "service" cylinder plus the 6kg Flogas as back up when abroad, and substitute the 11kg Flogas for the French 13 kg as the "service" cylinder when using the van in UK. If the gas lasts as well as seems likely (we use campsites and EHU, and have a Truma Combi 4E heater that has a mains electric space and water heating capability) I suspect that when the Flogas 11kg runs out we'll return that to Flogas and simply work with the Butagaz 13kg plus the Flogas 6kg as back up.

So, to echo what Derek has said above, I think I'd get the van first, and then work out what you can physically get into its gas locker before jumping ahead on anything. If it helps, on average over 15 13kg cylinders, using campsites and EHU, and with none of the previous vans having had Truma Combi "E" heaters (i.e. all space and water heating on gas) one 13kg cylinder lasts us in the region of 80 days. Hope this helps.
userslowdriver
Posted: 28 June 2020 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
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Location: Oxfordshire: La Strada Avanti EB 2020 LHD


Having read through your responses again and the comprehensive description of the options in Derek's 2018 submission here....

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/GAS-IN-EUROPE/48534/

...I am proposing to use the simple Gaslow adaptor referenced by Robin here:

https://tinyurl.com/y7kn5vax

..between the existing continental (German) pigtail and a UK 11kg Propane FloGas exchange cylinder. When and if we get to the continent we will purchase an additional exchange Propane 11kg cylinder and use the original connection as supplied on the van. We will carry both cylinders. This falls under Derek's A+D option, I think, in the post referenced above.

The gas is only required for cooking, heating is diesel, and with a compressor fridge, I imagine that this would be more than enough for quite long trips. In our previous, similarly configured van we used less than a 6kg bottle of butane on a three week trip. In retrospect it would have been better to specify the Truma DuoControl and then I could, I think, have an adaptor on one pigtail and one without, and the benefit of automatic switch over. Assuming that this is correct, if gas changeovers ever get onerous I can presumably upgrade to the DuoControl.

Conrad: Thank you for the suggestion of user refillable systems. It is certainly under consideration. However I intend to wait and see how we get on with the configuration proposed above, assuming it will work. We are not sure what our long-term pattern of use is likely to be given potential changes, both beyond our control (Brexit and Covid) and somewhat within our control (when my wife retires). If we ever get to make three-month-plus trips to Europe it is definitely a possible upgrade.

userslowdriver
Posted: 28 June 2020 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
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Location: Oxfordshire: La Strada Avanti EB 2020 LHD


Brian

Many thanks for the information. I agree that the first step is to see what will physically fit. The van is in the country at the moment, and I am in the midst of HMRC VAT payments, and having the technical work completed. Then the DVLA paperwork needs to be completed.
Our original plan to fly to Germany and then drive the van back, hit the buffers because of COVID and I have paid a German logistics company to bring it to the UK. It arrived on Thursday and is a 90 minute drive away having the tech work done. Which is a long-winded way of explaining why I haven't yet really looked at or measured the gas cabinet. Once I have I'll be able to determine what will fit and what won't, and may well go down the route you describe so thoroughly.

I attach a screen grab of the slide out tray (from a promo video) that accommodates the 2 x 11kg German propane bottles

Many thanks



Edited by slowdriver 2020-06-28 1:06 PM




(Gas-Compartment-tray.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Gas-Compartment-tray.jpg (72KB - 8 downloads)
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 28 June 2020 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Be careful, as 11kg cylinders and not universally available outside the UK. So far as I am aware they are not available in France, where the 13kg cylinders are ubiquitous. You may not be able to get an 11 kg plus a 13kg in your gas locker. That is why I advised not getting anything before you've got the van and can confirm what, actually, will fit in the locker.
userRobinhood
Posted: 28 June 2020 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


Given your intentions, the best choice of connections will be defined by the nationality of the "second" bottle you intend to carry. (and this again is likely to be defined by your intended travels).

I've never tried it, (I have refillables) but I've always been led to believe that the German bottle is more widely exchangeable (In Austria, possibly Poland, the Netherlands, etc.) than the French, but patently, if much of your travel is done in France, then it would make sense for the second bottle to be French.

The latter wouldn't negate the overall approach, but the existing German propane pigtail would have to be replaced with a French 21.8LH one - very very similar, but with slightly different sealing to the bottle. This French pigtail would also accept the same Gaslow adapter, but this time without the additional (<£2) German/Dutch sealing washer described in my previous.

CS (rupture-protected) pigtails are reasonably readily available (albeit "national" variations are obviously more common in their "home" countries). The French 21.8LH propane, however, is a common connection to the UK 21.8LH butane so is relatively easy to source in the UK. They are, (the rupture-protected ones) however, relatively expensive.

I have a couple of 2018 dated UK propane (Pol) ones in storage (I've re-used my stainless steel equivalents for the refillables on change of 'van, but begged the ones from the pre-installed regulator). I could have forwarded one on, but, with your intended usage and single input regulator, I think a better solution is either:

- the existing German pigtail, the Gaslow adapter and extra washer (if the second bottle is to be German), or

- a new 21.LH crash-safe UK butane pigtail (but used as French propane) and the Gaslow adapter without extra washer
(if the second bottle is to be French)

The DuoControl regulator is far from being a requirement, though it allows for tool-less changeover, and the automatic function ensures you don't have to head outside in the pink and crinklies (if you should so sleep) when the gas for the fridge runs out (as it inevitably does) in the middle of the night.

Looking at the picture of the slide-out, that might limit the sizes of the bottles you can fit in. (The height at the door looks somewhat restricted). To maximise the sizes you can fit, the rear one might have to be manoeuvred in at an angle (been there, done that). I would echo Brian's advice on checking sizes and clearance before deciding on bottle types and capacities, either of the connections I've outlined above should be easily obtainable in the UK (most decent caravan/motorhome dealers, or no more than a couple of days' wait for online purchases).

That picture also reinforces my opinion that any manual change to the connection will be better carried out at the bottle end (via the adapter) than at the regulator end, by changing pigtail type. (the bottles will get in the way).

There may be some concern over the adapter compromising the "rupture protected" hose. My own view is that this protection is there to cover hose rupture (the valve is at the bottle end). Adding a solid brass adapter with full, tight sealing at that end introduces (IMO) little or no new rupture risks.



Edited by Robinhood 2020-06-28 1:30 PM
userStuartO
Posted: 28 June 2020 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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I had two 11kg refillables installed when we bought our imported Hymer 15 years ago and apart from replacing pigtails (because of age) and giving the bottles a lick of paint after cleaning off surface corrosion, they've always worked flawlessly. If I was doing it again I would fit only one 11kd refillable and a smaller one as the fallback, because in practice we nearly always refill before the second bottle has had much use - and there's always somewhere you can fill up en route within a few days of deciding you want to. Having an automatic changeover is worthwhile, so you don't ever run out or need to bother checking contents "just in case".

Refillables are worthwhile for convenience alone, never mind the half price or better for the cost of gas. Your existing regulator will do and you should be able to add automatic switchover with two pigtails if you want to.
userRobinhood
Posted: 28 June 2020 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


Brian Kirby - 2020-06-28 1:06 PM

Be careful, as 11kg cylinders and not universally available outside the UK. So far as I am aware they are not available in France, where the 13kg cylinders are ubiquitous.


I'm not sure you meant to say it like this Brian, though it may be semantically correct.

11kg is probably the most common size across Europe (though not universally available ).

13kg is probably the most common in France, but other sizes are available. LeClerc's (fairly ubiquitous) own ClairGaz brand is one of the cheapest (both for bottle deposit and refill) and is an 11kg (propane) bottle.

As you've already said, however, just as important as the 11/13kg debate is the physical characteristics of the bottles, and in particular the valve "shroud".

Best to first get the 'van, measure, check cylinder dimensions, and plan accordingly.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 28 June 2020 2:12 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


It’s usually the diameter of the gas bottles that causes real problems..

I believe the diameter of a Germany-norm 11kg propane bottle is 300mm and the diameter of a Flogas 11kg propane bottle is 305mm. The diameter of a France-norm 13kg steel propane bottle is 310mm. (All of those figures are ‘nominal’ and there might be slight variations.)

Any reasonably large motorhome marketed in France, irrespective of the country where the motorhome was built, will need to have a gas-locker capable of taking one (preferably two) French 13kg steel cylinders. So, if Slowdriver’s Avanti’s locker can accommodate 2 x 11kg German gas bottles, diameter-wise it should be able to handle 2 x 13kg French steel bottles. However, as Robinhood warns, the height of the Avanti’s locker might prove restrictive.

As the Avanti has diesel-fuelled heating, it might be preferable to opt for a smaller-than-11kg UK cylinder (a Calor 6kg propane is the obvious candidate) as the basic for-use-in-the-UK cylinder, as this would maximise the space left in the locker should a supplementary ‘foreign’ bottle need to be inserted.

(I’m sure that, once Slowdriver has got his hands on the Avanti, he will have little difficulty deciding on what combination of pigtails/adapters/bottles would best suit his needs.)

A somewhat similar enquiry was made here in 2015

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Will-two-11kg-gas-bottles-fit-/37676/
userslowdriver
Posted: 28 June 2020 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
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I think the contributions made today have pretty comprehensively addressed the question. I am now clear on next steps: Measure the size of the cabinet. Then consider the probable use pattern and specifically predominate country of use, and then decide on the most appropriate bottles, and thereby define the appropriate adaptor(s).

Thank you again for the excellent advice.



userBrian Kirby
Posted: 28 June 2020 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Robinhood - 2020-06-28 1:54 PM
Brian Kirby - 2020-06-28 1:06 PM
Be careful, as 11kg cylinders and not universally available outside the UK. So far as I am aware they are not available in France, where the 13kg cylinders are ubiquitous.

I'm not sure you meant to say it like this Brian, though it may be semantically correct.
11kg is probably the most common size across Europe (though not universally available ).
13kg is probably the most common in France, but other sizes are available. LeClerc's (fairly ubiquitous) own ClairGaz brand is one of the cheapest (both for bottle deposit and refill) and is an 11kg (propane) bottle.
As you've already said, however, just as important as the 11/13kg debate is the physical characteristics of the bottles, and in particular the valve "shroud".
Best to first get the 'van, measure, check cylinder dimensions, and plan accordingly.

Typo apart ("and" in lieu of "are" in the first sentence), it was indeed availability I had in mind. Butagaz is available at almost every supermarket we've visited - even (especially? ) those right out in the boondocks. The main exceptions being those within cities, where cylinder gas is less in demand. FWIW, its wide availability, was the reason, on advice, for our choice of Butagaz.

Chris is in Oxfordshire, so it seems likely he'll head for one or other of the channel ports, or the tunnel, if heading to Europe. As his La Strada has diesel heating and hot water, I would imagine his gas consumption will be quite low. I think I'm seeing a version of this with the Knaus and its Combi E as, although we only travel spring and autumn, so avoiding the colder months, the Knaus has so far used much less gas than any of our other vans. I suspect the difference is in those chilly evenings and mornings where, with use of a gas heater, the extra consumption arose. Stopping off grid would boost gas consumption somewhat for the fridge, against stopping on a site with EHU and running the fridge on 230V, but small in comparison with running the heater.

If this proves the case in practice, I suspect that he'll eventually find that two 6kg cylinders will be fine, with one as reserve.

For reference, my 6kg Flogas propane is 235mm diameter, as is a 6kg German cylinder I "inherited" with the van. I've just measured the 13kg Butagaz, and the 11kg Flogas, and both are 305mm diameter across the base. Both are smooth sided with no projecting ridges. However, holding straps etc would mean that some tolerance would be required for fitting into the locker.

If Chris wants to know the heights, the heights of the UK cylinder shrouds or, looking at that "arch" the cylinders will have to slide beneath to enter the locker proper, the diameter of the shroud, I can provide that info.

userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 29 June 2020 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Relevant quoted dimensions of UK propane gas bottles are as follows

Flogas 11kg - Diameter = 310mm Height = 560mm

Flogas and Calor 6kg - Diameter = 256mm Height = 495mm

Calor 13kg - Diameter = 315mm Height = 580mm


A Germany-norm 11kg bottle - Diameter = 300mm Height = 580mm


A French Butagaz “Le Cube” container - Width = 280mm Height = 350mm

The photos above suggest that the length of the Truma ‘pigtail’ fitted as standard may be quite short (450mm?) which might complicate connecting to (or rather swapping between) bottles. If the pigtail were to be replaced, a longer equivalent (750mm?) might be worth considering. This was touched on in this 2013 forum thread.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Pigtails/33203/



userslowdriver
Posted: 29 June 2020 8:23 AM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
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Many thanks Brian. If you do have that information it would be most useful.

userslowdriver
Posted: 29 June 2020 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
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Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-29 8:12 AM

The photos above suggest that the length of the Truma ‘pigtail’ fitted as standard may be quite short (450mm?) which might complicate connecting to (or rather swapping between) bottles. If the pigtail were to be replaced, a longer equivalent (750mm?) might be worth considering. This was touched on in this 2013 forum thread.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Pigtails/33203/



Given that the La Strada has a pull out tray I suspect that the length of the single pigtail must be sufficient to reach the furthest bottle when the tray is extended and that therefore swapping between the two bottles may not be too onerous. I'll let you know when it is on site.
I am loath to make too many changes to the vehicle within the first two years and any I do will need to be done by a registered installer, at a minimum, or preferably a La Strada dealership of which there are none in the UK currently. I am quite happy to visit the original dealership in Bavaria for any such work, given I intend most of my travels to be in Europe.
userrael
Posted: 29 June 2020 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
Gets involved

Posts: 261
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Location: West Sussex. Challenger Vany 2018 LHD 2.3 130bhp


I have not bothered with changing the bottle on our van. Like you, we have diesel heating, so actual gas use is for cooking and hot water. Ours is a LHD imported German PVC and there is only room for one 11kg bottle. To put it in context, we had a full 11kg bottle when we got our PVC from Germany in December 2018 and still have about a quarter tank left even after a fair bit of winter touring, cooking and hot water use, as we've not had to heat the van from the same source. I've also got a 5kg bottle at home, just in case we can't get back to Germany soon. Most of our European jaunts take in Germany, so its never been an issue for us. I may buy another 11kg next time we go, just in case we end up spending more time in UK in the future.

If you have German bottles, this website lists all the countries in Europe where you can exchange them or get them filled. Its in German but Google Chrome will translate it for you.

https://www.intercaravaning.de/service/reisetipps/gasversorgung.html

For example German bottles are compatible with those from Belgium, Holland, Austria and also where they are re-fillable.

Here is a link to Amazon.de where they sell the adapters for use with bottles from other countries if you have a German system.

https://tinyurl.com/yc3k455f


Edited by rael 2020-06-29 9:37 AM
userrael
Posted: 29 June 2020 12:39 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
Gets involved

Posts: 261
1001002525
Location: West Sussex. Challenger Vany 2018 LHD 2.3 130bhp


rael - 2020-06-29 10:27 AM

I have not bothered with changing the bottle on our van. Like you, we have diesel heating, so actual gas use is for cooking and hot water. Ours is a LHD imported German PVC and there is only room for one 11kg bottle. To put it in context, we had a full 11kg bottle when we got our PVC from Germany in December 2018 and still have about a quarter tank left even after a fair bit of winter touring, cooking and hot water use, as we've not had to heat the van from the same source. I've also got a 5kg bottle at home, just in case we can't get back to Germany soon. Most of our European jaunts take in Germany, so its never been an issue for us. I may buy another 11kg next time we go, just in case we end up spending more time in UK in the future.

If you have German bottles, this website lists all the countries in Europe where you can exchange them or get them filled. Its in German but Google Chrome will translate it for you.

https://www.intercaravaning.de/service/reisetipps/gasversorgung.html

For example German bottles are compatible with those from Belgium, Holland, Austria and also where they are re-fillable.

Here is a link to Amazon.de where they sell the adapters for use with bottles from other countries if you have a German system.

https://tinyurl.com/yc3k455f

Have now found the link to UK Amazon.
https://tinyurl.com/y9q987v6
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 June 2020 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


50005000500020005001001002525
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


slowdriver - 2020-06-29 8:23 AM
Many thanks Brian. If you do have that information it would be most useful.

Here we go! All cylinders have a dome-shaped top.

6kg Flogas propane: 235mm diameter from base to springing of dome. Springing of dome 320mm. Base of shroud 370mm. Top of shroud 485mm. Diameter of shroud 190mm.

13kg Butagaz: 305mm diameter from base to springing of dome. Springing of dome 450mm. Base of gas cock 490mm. Top of gas cock 590mm. The cylinders come with an unscrewable (no tools required) shroud that is a close fit around the gas cock, which is unscrewed to access the gas cock and the connection point. Once the connection has been made the shroud, which incorporates a carrying handle, must be retained and screwed back onto the empty cylinder when exchanging for a full one.

11kg Flogas propane: 305mm diameter from base to springing of dome. Springing of dome 400mm. Base of shroud 445mm. Top of shroud 555mm. Diameter of shroud 205mm.

The above measurements are not micrometer accurate, so some degree of upward tolerance should be assumed, but I'm reasonably confident that the cylinders will not be smaller in any dimension.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 29 June 2020 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


50005000500020001000500100
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


rael - 2020-06-29 9:27 AM

I have not bothered with changing the bottle on our van. Like you, we have diesel heating, so actual gas use is for cooking and hot water. Ours is a LHD imported German PVC and there is only room for one 11kg bottle. ..


I believe a significant difference between the gas-carrying capability of your Challenger motorhome and Chris’s La Strada is that, when Chausson/Challenger fit diesel-fuelled heating, no alternative is offered and space/weight is saved by limiting the motorhome’s gas-locker’s carrying capacity to a single French-norm 13kg steel canister.

However, for the Avanti range, La Strada offers gas-heating as standard via a Truma “Combi” appliance (hence a gas-locker able to accommodate 2 x 11kg bottles) with a diesel-fuelled Truma “Combi D” as an option (when gas usage should be much lower).
userrael
Posted: 29 June 2020 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
Gets involved

Posts: 261
1001002525
Location: West Sussex. Challenger Vany 2018 LHD 2.3 130bhp


Yes, we also had a Chausson Flash 03, with Ebersphacher diesel heating and that also only had space for one gas bottle. I'd assumed that we only had one with the Challenger as it's a van conversion and space is at a premium, then I rememembered the Chausson. Which was much bigger.
userRobinhood
Posted: 29 June 2020 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


2000200050010025
Location: Sherwood Forest


rael - 2020-06-29 12:39 PM

.......
Have now found the link to UK Amazon.
https://tinyurl.com/y9q987v6


...though that set won't convert to a UK propane bottle, which needs a POL adapter.......
userrael
Posted: 29 June 2020 7:06 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
Gets involved

Posts: 261
1001002525
Location: West Sussex. Challenger Vany 2018 LHD 2.3 130bhp


Robinhood - 2020-06-29 5:15 PM

rael - 2020-06-29 12:39 PM

.......
Have now found the link to UK Amazon.
https://tinyurl.com/y9q987v6


...though that set won't convert to a UK propane bottle, which needs a POL adapter.......


I didn't know that. I'd assumed that number 4 would?
userslowdriver
Posted: 29 June 2020 7:58 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
Liking what I've found

Posts: 74
2525
Location: Oxfordshire: La Strada Avanti EB 2020 LHD


Rael:

Many thanks I have translated the website list and saved it for future reference
userRobinhood
Posted: 29 June 2020 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


2000200050010025
Location: Sherwood Forest


rael - 2020-06-29 7:06 PM

Robinhood - 2020-06-29 5:15 PM

rael - 2020-06-29 12:39 PM

.......
Have now found the link to UK Amazon.
https://tinyurl.com/y9q987v6


...though that set won't convert to a UK propane bottle, which needs a POL adapter.......


I didn't know that. I'd assumed that number 4 would?


Number 4 would probably fit a UK butane bottle but propane needs a POL adapter.

I couldn't resist using this particular picture of a POL connection (they sometimes, but by no means always, have a rubber tip to aid sealing)

POL-T.JPG
userrael
Posted: 29 June 2020 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 
Gets involved

Posts: 261
1001002525
Location: West Sussex. Challenger Vany 2018 LHD 2.3 130bhp


Robinhood - 2020-06-29 9:29 PM

I couldn't resist using this particular picture of a POL connection (they sometimes, but by no means always, have a rubber tip to aid sealing)

POL-T.JPG

userwitzend
Posted: 2 July 2020 10:53 PM
Subject: RE: Calor Gas 11kg fitting
 


Pillar of the forums

Posts: 709
500100100
Location: Cornwall


Brian Kirby - 2020-06-28 1:06 PM

Be careful, as 11kg cylinders and not universally available outside the UK. So far as I am aware they are not available in France, where the 13kg cylinders are ubiquitous. .


Intermarche super market chain have been selling their own brand propane 11kg propane or butane for at least 10 yrs and still just €1 bottle deposit and in Nov 2019 a full bottle was €22. At a lot of stations its now available 24 - 7 as there are self service cages if you have a bottle to return. All I've ever used in last 10 yrs except do have a Repsol Spanish 13 kg bottle refill was €12 in Nov



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