Seanyboy Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Guess this issue arises from time-to-time on this forum. However, Im new to this world and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Just purchased five new Michelin Camper tyres at £597. Anyway, had a puncture today in my VW car, took it to the local repair garage who trades tyres. Was discussing this matter with Ray (owner) and he said that it doesn't matter. As long as the magic numbers are present no need to worry he insisted! Then said he could of done me similar for £360!! What are your thoughts on this issue please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 My Indesit £200 washing machine is similar to a Miele or Bosch at 2 times the price and both wash clothes. But which one is better? Same with tyres. OK you could have saved a bit getting non camping but for what your tyre guy suggests price wise would not be as good. Some will argue you are just as well getting commercial tyres and for some that will be true. certainly on a PVC conversion there there really is an argument to say camping spec is not required. However for larger Coach built motprhomes and motorhomes loaded up the the hilt and cose to max load of the tyres and possibly even overloaded then camping spec tyres are a much better choice. You appear to have a large A class. How does the tyre supplier (Ray) know you do not get close to max loading of the tyres. For all he knows or I know you could be over the laden weight. Therefore the only responsible suggestion is camping tyres. Basic advantages of Camping spec.. Improved load handling safery margin so overloading tyres is not so much of a hazard. Improved characteristics when left standing for long periods avoiding 'square wheels' (In other words flat spots). Improved air retention so again when left standing for long periods tyres do not lose much air. More robust side walls ro cope with kerbing and driving over stones and kerbs on campsites. If Michelin Agilis Camping then M&S rating which is an advantage in winter or cold weather. Motorhomes have a higher centre of gravity than most vans and rarely are driven empty so tyres are loaded all the time and when cornering or on bumby roads have heavier loading on the tyres...Camping tyres as already mentioned have improved load handling safety margin. So if you know you are not heavily loading the tyres commercial is fine, if not and close to linits then camping spec is the best choice. You will get many who say they are just the same and its just an excuse to extract more money out of us Motorhome owners. Maybe they are right , maybe they are not but in view of improved characteristics of the tyres make you own mind up. I have camping tyres costing a lot to replace so naturally want to believe they are better. If I had fitted standard commercial tyres I dare say I would be wanting to persuade myself they are just as good. Cognitive recognition at its best I suppose! One thing is for sure, you are NOT going to get a better tyre than you have fitted, of that there is NO doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Spot on Brambles, very good opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 oh dear, please excuse the typos of which there are a few I have just noticed...too late to correct now. Thanks rolandrat for your kind agreement.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 There could also be insurance issues by not fitting the standard of tyres as fitted by the converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Brambles - 2015-04-11 6:28 PM My Indesit £200 washing machine is similar to a Miele or Bosch at 2 times the price and both wash clothes. But which one is better? Same with tyres. OK you could have saved a bit getting non camping but for what your tyre guy suggests price wise would not be as good. Some will argue you are just as well getting commercial tyres and for some that will be true. certainly on a PVC conversion there there really is an argument to say camping spec is not required. However for larger Coach built motprhomes and motorhomes loaded up the the hilt and cose to max load of the tyres and possibly even overloaded then camping spec tyres are a much better choice. You appear to have a large A class. How does the tyre supplier (Ray) know you do not get close to max loading of the tyres. For all he knows or I know you could be over the laden weight. Therefore the only responsible suggestion is camping tyres. Basic advantages of Camping spec.. Improved load handling safery margin so overloading tyres is not so much of a hazard. Improved characteristics when left standing for long periods avoiding 'square wheels' (In other words flat spots). Improved air retention so again when left standing for long periods tyres do not lose much air. More robust side walls ro cope with kerbing and driving over stones and kerbs on campsites. If Michelin Agilis Camping then M&S rating which is an advantage in winter or cold weather. Motorhomes have a higher centre of gravity than most vans and rarely are driven empty so tyres are loaded all the time and when cornering or on bumby roads have heavier loading on the tyres...Camping tyres as already mentioned have improved load handling safety margin. So if you know you are not heavily loading the tyres commercial is fine, if not and close to linits then camping spec is the best choice. You will get many who say they are just the same and its just an excuse to extract more money out of us Motorhome owners. Maybe they are right , maybe they are not but in view of improved characteristics of the tyres make you own mind up. I have camping tyres costing a lot to replace so naturally want to believe they are better. If I had fitted standard commercial tyres I dare say I would be wanting to persuade myself they are just as good. Cognitive recognition at its best I suppose! One thing is for sure, you are NOT going to get a better tyre than you have fitted, of that there is NO doubt. I'm afraid I must disagree with you. My PVC came as standard with commercial tyres, these are 116 load index as the max axle loading is 2.4t, I've had a look on Michelin website and they don't even make a camping tyre in this load index for my tyre sze, best they can do for my van is 113. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 "certainly on a PVC conversion there really is an argument to say camping spec is not required" What do you disagree with Colin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 You would have saved £237. What is that as a percentage of your total outlay for peace of mind? After all, your tyres are the only contact with the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 colin - 2015-04-11 8:50 PM I'm afraid I must disagree with you. My PVC came as standard with commercial tyres, these are 116 load index as the max axle loading is 2.4t, I've had a look on Michelin website and they don't even make a camping tyre in this load index for my tyre sze, best they can do for my van is 113. ...not sure which tyre size you have, Colin, but Conti may have a "Camper" tyre. Having said that, I'm not wholly convinced by the argument for camper tyres in all circumstances, but to be comfortable with fitting non-camper tyres (of a like rating), I'd like to be fully aware of my (in use) all-up weight and axle loadings, and be sure of some margin. It may just be a coincidence, but my current coachbuilt 'van is fitted with Conti Vanco (non camper) tyres - as in your case, original from the factory. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Brambles - 2015-04-11 8:52 PM "certainly on a PVC conversion there really is an argument to say camping spec is not required" What do you disagree with Colin? Your basic premis that commercial tyres are not up to camping tyre standards, as my van/tyre combination shows, there are no camping tyres that offer the load bearing of my plain commercial tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Robinhood - 2015-04-11 9:12 PM ...not sure which tyre size you have, Colin, but Conti may have a "Camper" tyre. I tried to look it up on Conti website but although I could get it to display all sorts of other tyres on the camping tyres page it would not display any info. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanyboy Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Interesting comments you've all left regarding THESE tyre issues. Guess there is no definitive answer, is there? However, like a member posted about peace of mind. I guess I'll go on that. Thank you for the replies. One love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 colin - 2015-04-11 9:36 PM Robinhood - 2015-04-11 9:12 PM ...not sure which tyre size you have, Colin, but Conti may have a "Camper" tyre. I tried to look it up on Conti website but although I could get it to display all sorts of other tyres on the camping tyres page it would not display any info. :-S ...yes, I know (I was going to post a link). But the German site works, and gives the following sizes/ratings: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanyboy Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Robinhood, did as you suggested. It said map file was incompatible!Can you use Mappoint without an internet connection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Thats interesting, I have 215/75-16 tyres, Continental have pulled a fast one on these, they don't actually make a camping tyre of this size so they offer a plain commercial tyre as a camping tyre (lol) To get some kind of comparison I've looked at 225/75-16 which are also used on my van, the camper version is 116r, whlst the plain commercial ones can be had as 116, 118, or 121, so quite clearly the camper version at best offers the same load index as plain commercial or if you realy want to load them up you need to use the higher rated commercial tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Motorcaravan tyres do work harder due to always carrying a high percentage of their load rating than an ordinary good vehicle but I think it was Continental that at one time (pre entering camping tyre market?) suggested fitting motorcaravans with tyres with 10%extra load margin. Sometimes the next width up is enough to give that margin and not a lot dearer. Yes Camping car tyres are specific and cost more to make especially in relatively low numbers but the suspicion that the price is rip off just will not go away. Overloading is a sign of ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linfield Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Hi I have an auto sleeper symbol 2008 & have just done 55000 miles on the same set , just moved them frount to back at 35000 , they still have a long way to go yet so why would I want to put on anything else but the tyres fitted the van in the first place. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 colin - 2015-04-11 10:55 PM Thats interesting, I have 215/75-16 tyres, Continental have pulled a fast one on these, they don't actually make a camping tyre of this size so they offer a plain commercial tyre as a camping tyre (lol) ....as you say, in the context of the debate here, "interesting". ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 linfield - 2015-04-11 11:29 PM Hi I have an auto sleeper symbol 2008 & have just done 55000 miles on the same set , just moved them frount to back at 35000 , they still have a long way to go yet so why would I want to put on anything else but the tyres fitted the van in the first place. . Then as is likely that the fronts are more worn you've done exactly the wrong thing, the ones with the best tread depth across the tyres should be on the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 colin - 2015-04-11 10:55 PM Thats interesting, I have 215/75-16 tyres, Continental have pulled a fast one on these, they don't actually make a camping tyre of this size so they offer a plain commercial tyre as a camping tyre (lol) To get some kind of comparison I've looked at 225/75-16 which are also used on my van, the camper version is 116r, whlst the plain commercial ones can be had as 116, 118, or 121, so quite clearly the camper version at best offers the same load index as plain commercial or if you realy want to load them up you need to use the higher rated commercial tyres. A ‘camping’ tyre nowadays can be defined as a tyre that carries a “CP” marking on its sidewall. The CP-marking was approved by the ETRTO (European Tire and Rim Technical Organization) as an indicator that a tyre has been developed by its manufacturer as being particularly appropriate for use on motorhomes. Other than that the CP-marking has no technical implications. Apparently the ETRTO (for reasons known only to itself) decided that only 8PR tyres can be CP-marked and Continental’s VancoCamper in 215/75 R16C size is a 10PR tyre. A 215/75 R16C VancoCamper tyre is a genuine ‘camping’ tyre (like all the other VancoCamper sizes) but, because its size/load-index combination makes it 10PR, the ETRTO’s decision prevents Continental from CP-marking it. This anomaly is highlighted here http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/www/tyres_uk_en/themes/van-tyres/standard-van-tyres/vancocamper/vancocamper/vancocamper.html?page=4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 You did the right thing, Seanyboy. Motorhomes are always operating at near their full capacity. Camping tyres are designed to cope with the added strain placed on the tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanyboy Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Hey Brock. Thanks for your remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I reckon you wasted a couple of hundred quid. I have never replaced M/H with CP rated tyres and see no need to. As Derek's link points out even the makers do not see non CP tyres causing a problem at 10pr so why should they at 8pr. I have looked on the makers sites many times but can see no difference in the specification of CP tyres to the nearest van tyre of same size and rating., no doubt their is one but what is it exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 This bloke I saw in Greece definately had camping tyres on. :D but I suspect his steering was a little on the light side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-04-12 4:11 PM I reckon you wasted a couple of hundred quid. I have never replaced M/H with CP rated tyres and see no need to. As Derek's link points out even the makers do not see non CP tyres causing a problem at 10pr so why should they at 8pr. I have looked on the makers sites many times but can see no difference in the specification of CP tyres to the nearest van tyre of same size and rating., no doubt their is one but what is it exactly? Just checked prices and I make the difference between CP and and non equivalent make of tyre about £13 each. So hardly wasted a couple of hundred but just approx £50. Yes you could go for much cheaper alternative makes of tyres but then would they be as good. I certainly would not want budget tyres fitted to an expensive motorhome and for the sake of £50 odd pounds on a large heavy A class Motorhome camping tyres would be well worth it for peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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