Joe1955 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Hi,as any one else been on DVLA website and registered there A Frame Car as a trailer, it's a really easy procedure and I will definitely be taking my car with me next year in Europe, obviously making sure I display the separate number plate and taking the trailer certificate with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I think I've just heard a can of worms being opened :-D :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Joe1955 - 2019-12-21 1:25 PM Hi,as any one else been on DVLA website and registered there A Frame Car as a trailer, it's a really easy procedure and I will definitely be taking my car with me next year in Europe, obviously making sure I display the separate number plate and taking the trailer certificate with me. Are you visiting Spain and if so have you checked that the Spanish police will accept this arrangement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Joe1955 - 2019-12-21 1:25 PM Hi,as any one else been on DVLA website and registered there A Frame Car as a trailer, it's a really easy procedure and I will definitely be taking my car with me next year in Europe, obviously making sure I display the separate number plate and taking the trailer certificate with me. I am assuming you mean through this Gov.UK website... https://www.gov.uk/register-trailer-to-take-abroad If so it says you only need to register commercial trailers which are over 3,500 kg but CAN register other trailers if you so desire. It will be interesting as to what registration plate you get for your 'new' trailer as I can find no mention of getting anything other than a registration certificate. Please let us know how you get on. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Odd, but I ASSUME if you register it separately then it'll have to be insured and taxed separately too? If so, is it worth the hassle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Just found this Gov leaflet... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/780825/trailer-registration-numbers-and-number-plates-inf291.pdf Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 It’s plain from the gov.uk guidance that the registration procedure is intended for commercial trailers and not A-frame-towed cars. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/trailer-registration Although it is semi-accepted in this country that an A-frame-towed car can be considered as a ‘trailer’ within the scope of the UK’s towing regulations, this does not mean that attaching a car to a motorhome on an A-frame miraculously (like a pumpkin in a Cinderella pantomine) turns the car into a real-world trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Joe1955 - 2019-12-21 1:25 PM Hi,as any one else been on DVLA website and registered there A Frame Car as a trailer, it's a really easy procedure and I will definitely be taking my car with me next year in Europe, obviously making sure I display the separate number plate and taking the trailer certificate with me. Did you contact DVLA before doing this, and did they advise it was legally acceptable to do so? The requirement is for commercial trailers over 750kg or exceeding 3,500kg max weight. It isn't clear whether voluntarily registering a car as a (presumably non-commercial) trailer would alter its legal status as a car. I can see one problem (apart from that the "trailer" looks like a car, has an engine, and is capable of self-propulsion!), which is that the car is already registered in UK as a car, and has a registration document - which you must take with you if you intend driving it while away - which would appear to contradict its status as a trailer. It may be legally possible for a vehicle to be registered in two different categories, but I'd check very carefully before relying on that assumption. The problem with flat towing a car outside the UK is that in many countries (perhaps most relevant France and Spain) it is illegal for one motor vehicle to tow another, except at low speed and then only in an emergency to clear a road or to a place of repair, unless the towing vehicle is a licenced recovery vehicle. Don't forget that if stopped and challenged you'll be dealing with a very puzzled policemen who may not speak English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 The French Government have previously decreed that a car cannot be a trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe1955 Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 Hello, I have already registered my tow car as a trailer. And the certificate from DVLA also has a separate registration number plate which by the way is square with a white background,so to sum up I will be towing a registered trailer with a trailer certificate that also is in the main EU language's so there's clarity for all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Where you may fall foul of the law is if you haven't got a CoC or IVA doc for the 'trailer', get one of those and it would appear to be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe1955 Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 I agree with what you are saying, the certificate itself has lots of information including the trailer make (Kia) and the full Vin number,it also states that the vehicle is a trailer in many language's....so I'll see next year when we go down to Spain via France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Interesting idea but throws up a lot of unknowns. The ' normal ' definition of a trailer is an ' unpowered vehicle towed by a powered vehicle ' - so it's a surprise that the DVLA accepted a car as a trailer. It will be interesting to hear how other countries define it. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 malc d - 2019-12-21 4:54 PM Interesting idea but throws up a lot of unknowns. The ' normal ' definition of a trailer is an ' unpowered vehicle towed by a powered vehicle ' - so it's a surprise that the DVLA accepted a car as a trailer. It will be interesting to hear how other countries define it. :-| That is correct. So I would be interested in knowing how this is registered? The white, square plate will only cover it when being used as a trailer. Presumably the OP will take that plate off and Voila! he has a car registered on the original plates. Or have DVLA cancelled the original registration? Either way, as I see it, the French law has specifically decreed that a car cannot be classed as a trailer whether registered or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Nicepix - 2019-12-21 4:14 PM malc d - 2019-12-21 4:54 PM Interesting idea but throws up a lot of unknowns. The ' normal ' definition of a trailer is an ' unpowered vehicle towed by a powered vehicle ' - so it's a surprise that the DVLA accepted a car as a trailer. It will be interesting to hear how other countries define it. :-| That is correct. So I would be interested in knowing how this is registered? The white, square plate will only cover it when being used as a trailer. Presumably the OP will take that plate off and Voila! he has a car registered on the original plates. Or have DVLA cancelled the original registration? Either way, as I see it, the French law has specifically decreed that a car cannot be classed as a trailer whether registered or not. …….. and if it's registered as a trailer, does it require an annual MoT ? 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Nicepix - 2019-12-21 4:14 PM...……………... The white, square plate will only cover it when being used as a trailer. Presumably the OP will take that plate off and Voila! he has a car registered on the original plates. ……………... If it is to be treated as a trailer, as I read the requirement, the white square plate is to be visible in addition to the plate showing the registration number of the towing vehicle - with the two being spaced apart to the maximum extent possible. There is also the question of insurance, and whether the insurance companies (particularly that of the "carailer") have been advised, and agreed, to what is being done. I can't see why in particular they should not agree, but it would be rash to assume their agreement without at least checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 This 2014 forum thread discussed the legality of a motorhome towing a car on an A-frame in France. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/French-A-frame-ruling-possibly-/36464/ Received wisdom seems to be that, when a UK-registered motorhome is A-frame towing a car in the UK, the rear of the car - because it is now a ‘trailer’!! - must carry a number-plate with the motorhome’s UK registration-number on it. (Presumably the fact that the car will continue to have on its front a number-plate with its own UK registration-number is irrelevant?) However, if the car has been officially registered as a trailer via the DVLA and been awarded its own dedicated number-plate, which rear plate should the car display carry when it is being towed in the UK - one carrying the motorhome’s registration-number or the dedicated trailer plate? Whatever the UK registration status - car or trailer - or which registration plate the car/trailer carries, it’s most unlikely to cause problems travelling in France. Despite French motorcaravanners having been told repeatedly and authoratively that it is illegal for them to tow a car on an A-frame, this hasn’t stamped out the practice and (to the best of my knowledge) no French or ‘foreign’ motorcaravanner has been prosecuted in France for doing it. Spain is another matter and ‘everybody’ (including the French) seems to understand that the long-standing Spanish law that prohibits one motor vehicle from towing another motor vehicle, when applied to anybody A-framing in that country, ignores any Jesuitical defence that the thing being towed is actually a trailer and not a motor vehicle. (It might be interesting to know if someone suggested to Joe1955 that it would be advantageous to UK-register his car as a trailer, or if he came up with the idea himself.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Joe1955 - 2019-12-21 3:27 PM Hello, I have already registered my tow car as a trailer. And the certificate from DVLA also has a separate registration number plate which by the way is square with a white background,so to sum up I will be towing a registered trailer with a trailer certificate that also is in the main EU language's so there's clarity for all concerned. Well I, for one, would be interested in how you get on in Europe - my only input to those who doubt it is it may be a way of legally towing a 'car' in that, when being towed, the car is not under its own propulsion so is, in effect, more of a 'trailer' than a 'car' and as we know can conform to all the laws relating to 'Trailers' Have a go Joe if you are confident and report back with your experiences. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKen1 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Good luck with that in Spain ..hope your wife can drive .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-12-21 5:20 PM However, if the car has been officially registered as a trailer via the DVLA and been awarded its own dedicated number-plate, which rear plate should the car display carry when it is being towed in the UK - one carrying the motorhome’s registration-number or the dedicated trailer plate? Brian answered that question just before you posted... Brian Kirby - 2019-12-21 5:12 PM If it is to be treated as a trailer, as I read the requirement, the white square plate is to be visible in addition to the plate showing the registration number of the towing vehicle - with the two being spaced apart to the maximum extent possible. And detailed in the brochure I linked to earlier... Keithl - 2019-12-21 2:54 PM Just found this Gov leaflet... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/780825/trailer-registration-numbers-and-number-plates-inf291.pdf Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Joe1955 - 2019-12-21 3:45 PM I agree with what you are saying, the certificate itself has lots of information including the trailer make (Kia) and the full Vin number,it also states that the vehicle is a trailer in many language's....so I'll see next year when we go down to Spain via France. That is unlikely to be legal, AFAIK Kia have no CoC for manufacturing of trailers, and the vin applies to a motorcar not a trailer, so you could be guilty of fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 A bizarre situation, as I read it there is no actual need to register it as it is neither a commercial trailer nor over 3,500kg. So the only purpose is to try and pass your car off as a trailer, which it clearly isn't. So good luck in explaining this when stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Billggski - 2019-12-22 5:05 PM A bizarre situation, as I read it there is no actual need to register it as it is neither a commercial trailer nor over 3,500kg. So the only purpose is to try and pass your car off as a trailer, which it clearly isn't. So good luck in explaining this when stopped. It's my opinion, right or wrong, that if A framed cars meet to trailer regs it should be possible to take the A framed car to a test station and get a IVA for it as a trailer. You would think that the manufacturers of the A frames who like to claim the combo meets the regs would do this to prove their case, but it seems none have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe1955 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Every country in the EU plus many other countries outside the EU have trailers with there own registration number, regardless of under or over 3.5 tons and it has been so for many years,I knew that I don't have to register my tow car as a trailer, but I also knew that I could register my car as a trailer...so I did,it's a very simple process through DVLA and obviously I didn't hide anything, vehicle make and vin number OR trailer make and chassis number and a small fee is all that is required.... the towing vehicle number plate is on the rear of the trailer (car) plus the trailer number plate is attached inside the rear window together with obligatory red triangle's x2 and obviously all the lights working plus the car (trailer) is electronicly braked, finally in answer to your question,I had my car converted in May 19 by LNB Towbars in Bristol and the owner had just registered his own car with DVLA. And that's where I got the initial idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Joe1955 - 2019-12-22 7:47 PM I had my car converted in May 19 by LNB Towbars in Bristol and the owner had just registered his own car with DVLA. And that's where I got the initial idea. Did he say he'd travelled in Spain been stopped and allowed to continue his journey. I wouldn't like to just take the word of a A frame sales man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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