Catalytic Converter.

[Ninian]

Hi, Started the van this morning and ran up to temperature just to cycle the engine, and then I thought was I doing any damage to the above by not getting it up to driving temperature. If not I would do this on a weekly basis. Opinions. ????????

 

Thanks.

[mikefitz]

Any diesel powered vehicle produced after 2011 will have a DPF, a particulate filter. This operates when the vehicle detects a high soot level and takes various actions to burn off the soot, usually by adding more fuel to the exhaust which raises the temperature in the DPF. This will not occur unless the engine and exhaust system are above specific temperatures and conditions, usually achived at a steady driving speeds on motorways and major roads. There is no indication that the burn cycle is taking place so it's probable that the cycle would be terminated prematurely if the engine were running only for short periods, even if the conditions were met to initiate a cycle.

There are major disadvantages in running the engine for short periods off load. The soot levels generated by a cold engine are higher, it's unlikely the conditions required for a DPF burn cycle will be met.

It's probable that more harm that good will be done to the engine and emissions system by short time running, worst case blocked DPF or dilution of engine oil.

 

Mike

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

For the record, Ninian’s Auto-Trail Dakota was bought new in late-2014 and is based on a Fiat Ducato X250.

 

The Ducato Owner Handbook relevant to a 2014 X250 states

 

The following devices are used for reducing diesel fuel

engine emissions:

- oxidising catalytic converter;

- exhaust gas recirculation system (E.G.R.);

- diesel particulate filter (DPF).

 

but (as Mike warns) it’s the DPF that can potentially be harmed by regularly running the motor as Ninian did this morning.

 

When a motorhome is to be static for a lengthy period, taking it out for a longish run every so often is often recommended as being beneficial for the motor, transmission, brakes, tyres, etc. but I support Mike’s view that just ‘warming up’ the motor alone is not a great idea.

 

 

[Deneb]

Just to add to Mike's excellent reply, starting and idling an engine without putting it under a load and driving sufficient distance to ensure it is fully warm, is one of the worst things you can do to it.

 

Older pre-emissions controlled diesel engines were more tolerant of that then petrol engines, but it is a good way to damage a modern diesel engine in short order. Apart from the DPF aspect, modern low-viscocity oils designed to decrease fuel consumption and emissions are also less tolerant of prolonged periods of idling.

 

I have mentioned here once before, that a "premium" German car manufacturer sent instructions to police workshops a few years ago, following several catastrophic engine failures, that they had to change to using tradional higher viscosity oils and substantially shorten oil change intervals, because the low viscocity oil recommended for general use could not protect engines left idling at incident scenes to provide power for emergency lights and radios etc.

 

If you can't take the vehicle for a fairly long drive, which none of us can at the moment, you are better off not starting it at all, and just changing the oil before you next use it.

[jumpstart]

Deneb - 2020-03-27 1:52 PM

 

Just to add to Mike's excellent reply, starting and idling an engine without putting it under a load and driving sufficient distance to ensure it is fully warm, is one of the worst things you can do to it.

 

Older pre-emissions controlled diesel engines were more tolerant of that then petrol engines, but it is a good way to damage a modern diesel engine in short order. Apart from the DPF aspect, modern low-viscocity oils designed to decrease fuel consumption and emissions are also less tolerant of prolonged periods of idling.

 

I have mentioned here once before, that a "premium" German car manufacturer sent instructions to police workshops a few years ago, following several catastrophic engine failures, that they had to change to using tradional higher viscosity oils and substantially shorten oil change intervals, because the low viscocity oil recommended for general use could not protect engines left idling at incident scenes to provide power for emergency lights and radios etc.

 

If you can't take the vehicle for a fairly long drive, which none of us can at the moment, you are better off not starting it at all, and just changing the oil before you next use it.

 

Is it not acceptable to drive it to the supermarket instead of the car?

[Ninian]

Hi, Thanks for the replies, I'll not be doing that again. !!!!!!!

[Deneb]

jumpstart - 2020-03-27 4:11PM

 

Is it not acceptable to drive it to the supermarket instead of the car?

 

It may be as far as the restrictions are concerned, but unless the journey is a round trip of around 30 - 50 miles you're not going to get the engine hot enough to evaporate pollutants in the oil and I'd still argue that not starting it at all would be less harmful.

 

Leave it in gear with the handbrake off, keep the battery charged and roll it back or forward half a revolution of the wheels every few weeks if it parked somewhere flat, or pump the tyres up an extra 10 psi or so to avoid flat spots, jump in now and again to push the brake pedal once or twice and you'll be fine.

[jumpstart]

Deneb - 2020-03-27 4:35 PM

 

jumpstart - 2020-03-27 4:11PM

 

Is it not acceptable to drive it to the supermarket instead of the car?

 

It may be as far as the restrictions are concerned, but unless the journey is a round trip of around 30 - 50 miles you're not going to get the engine hot enough to evaporate pollutants in the oil and I'd still argue that not starting it at all would be less harmful.

 

Leave it in gear with the handbrake off, keep the battery charged and roll it back or forward half a revolution of the wheels every few weeks if it parked somewhere flat, or pump the tyres up an extra 10 psi or so to avoid flat spots, jump in now and again to push the brake pedal once or twice and you'll be fine.

 

Thanks, well I have learn something because I too was going to run it in the drive this weekend.

[breakaleg]

Learn from the master.

I used to do that on my 2009 Peugeot but I run mine for about 20 - 30 minutes.

The rocker broke and the bits dropped into the cylinder , it cost just shy of £3000.00 to have fixed.

I now take it for a run of about 30 miles some of it along motorway to get it hot.

I will have to do this tomorrow but suspect that I will be stopped by the police along the way ( a non essential journey) in their eyes.

Pete

[Deneb]

breakaleg - 2020-03-28 11:30 AM

 

I now take it for a run of about 30 miles some of it along motorway to get it hot.

I will have to do this tomorrow but suspect that I will be stopped by the police along the way ( a non essential journey) in their eyes.

Pete

 

And in mine too. We have only been under the current restrictions for less than a week. Why is there any pressing need to take any vehicle on a non-essential journey right now? Maybe if it had been sat for 6 months I could see some point.

[breakaleg]

If I leave mine for two weeks the battery dies and the alarm starts going off in the early hours of the morning.

I can't cope with removing the battery as I have mobility problems and living in terrace house it isn't possible to trail a cable across the footpath.

Should the battery die, I would have to call out the breakdown service who would start the engine and suggest that I take it for a drive every couple of weeks.

Even if I had a new battery fitted it would be the same after a few weeks.

Should I leave the alarm of and the van was stolen no doubt the insurance company wouldn't pay out.

Pete

[Deneb]

breakaleg - 2020-03-28 11:44 AM

 

If I leave mine for two weeks the battery dies and the alarm starts going off in the early hours of the morning.

I can't cope with removing the battery as I have mobility problems and living in terrace house it isn't possible to trail a cable across the footpath.

Should the battery die, I would have to call out the breakdown service who would start the engine and suggest that I take it for a drive every couple of weeks.

Even if I had a new battery fitted it would be the same after a few weeks.

Should I leave the alarm of and the van was stolen no doubt the insurance company wouldn't pay out.

Pete

 

Surely you can find someone who could remove the battery for you? To be honest if the battery is getting that low after 2 weeks then by the time you have also taken power from it to start the engine you realistically need to drive a lot further than 30 miles to fully recharge it. Seems a very drastic and wasteful way of keeping a battery maintained.

 

Do you have a solar panel? Fitting a solar controller with built-in vehicle battery trickle charging such as the Votronic series would surely start to save you money after just a few trips and you could even feel good about doing a bit to reduce emissions quite apart from the current restrictions.

[Will86]

Having been around for too many years (perhaps) I see little progress today, every new smart addition has its downside with ever increasing costs for the consumer. On the present scale of things even more will be demanded in order to stand still.

 

[breakaleg]

No, there is no one who could remove the battery for me and I would need a replacement for the alarm.

Under normal circumstances it would be about six trips in the winter as the weather improves the battery holds better and of course with normal use in the season it operates without fault .

Did consider a solar panel but never really needed one until now, however I doubt if I would be able to have one fitted at this moment in time and I was going to change vans this year and still might if we get the chance.

Pete

[Derek Uzzell]

Pete

 

This recent “independent” article

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/coronavirus-lockdown-uk-arrest-fine-police-rules-latest-a9428196.html

 

warns that the UK police now have powers to arrest motorists or impose a fine of up to £960 for violating the latest coronavirus ‘lock down’ guidelines that are referred to here

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-boris-johnson-rules-restrictions-stay-home-police-a9420231.html

 

If you feel you MUST take your motorhome on a 30-odd mile run to keep its battery charged, I suggest you pick your route carefully so that you remain not too far from a supermarket near your home. If stopped, the police might accept an explanation that you were heading to (or from) a supermarket to obtain food and that your motorhome was your sole vehicle (not forgetting to mention your mobility issues). But if the police found you 10 miles away on the motorway and you told them you needed to be driving to maintain your motorhome’s battery-charge state, I doubt that would go down well.

[breakaleg]

Hi I appreciate what you are all saying I will be going shopping as it happens.

I was really only replying to the op as just didn't want him to have a big repair bill as I did just because I used to run the van outside without moving.(sitting with your engine running is also an offence for witch you can be fined.

 

The police have to warn you the first time and then £60.00 reduced to £30.00.

The trouble is, Iam dammed if I do and dammed if I don't.

Pete

 

[Deneb]

breakaleg - 2020-03-28 2:39 PM

The police have to warn you the first time and then £60.00 reduced to £30.00.

 

They don't HAVE to warn you. What they and the government have said is that they will aim to use their discretion in enforcing the restrictions. Discretion works both ways, and whilst the default option is likely to be warning people at least in the early stages of implementation, the attitude and reaction of some offenders or the seriousness of their actions could result in a fine and/or arrest for a first offence in certain circumstances.

[Derek Uzzell]

breakaleg - 2020-03-28 11:44 AM

 

...I can't cope with removing the battery as I have mobility problems and living in terrace house it isn't possible to trail a cable across the footpath...

 

Pete

 

Even though the cable would cross a footpath, is it literally not possible for you to run a power-cable from your house to the motorhome?

 

People have been known to charge an electric car parked on the street near their house by running a mains cable across the pavement. This practice is definitely not to be recommended (and neighbours and the local council may really not like it) but if you were able to do it for a few hours and personally oversee the cable while charging was taking place, it might be better than driving the motorhome around while the present coronavirus regulations are in force.

 

(I assume that, if you ran a cable to the motorhome, the vehicle’s on-board charger could charge the starter-battery fairly quickly? Some onboard chargers prioritise charging towards the leisure-battery, with the starter-battery just receiving a ’trickle charge’, or even not receiving any charge.)

 

 

[Earthmover]

Hi,

Could you not invest in a folding/portable solar panel?, place it by the van and connect it up using the jump start terminals under the bonnet, during the day. disconnect at dusk and take it in the house for safe keeping. chain it to a wheel if necessary!. If you change your van at any time it would come in handy.

Cheers Em

[John52]

Deneb - 2020-03-28 3:05 PM

 

breakaleg - 2020-03-28 2:39 PM

The police have to warn you the first time and then £60.00 reduced to £30.00.

 

They don't HAVE to warn you. What they and the government have said is that they will aim to use their discretion in enforcing the restrictions. Discretion works both ways, and whilst the default option is likely to be warning people at least in the early stages of implementation, the attitude and reaction of some offenders or the seriousness of their actions could result in a fine and/or arrest for a first offence in certain circumstances.

 

But what restrictions?

What BoJo says? - or the law? ... which are quite different.

Fining and arresting people for disobeying what a Government official says, when its not the law, is what happens in a police state.

 

[John52]

Deneb - 2020-03-27 4:35 PM

 

Leave it in gear with the handbrake off, keep the battery charged and roll it back or forward half a revolution of the wheels every few weeks if it parked somewhere flat, .

 

YesI think thats probably the most important point.

I had a van that had been left outside a year - rust patches had formed where the water collected on the brake drums and discs - leading to brake judder. We sanded them off but it didn't work - ended up having to replace them all round. Just increasing the tyre pressures won't fix that.

[StuartO]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-03-28 2:18 PM....If stopped, the police might accept an explanation that you were heading to (or from) a supermarket to obtain food and that your motorhome was your sole vehicle (not forgetting to mention your mobility issues). But if the police found you 10 miles away on the motorway and you told them you needed to be driving to maintain your motorhome’s battery-charge state, I doubt that would go down well.

The police are currently being accused of being heavy handed, which might inhibit them from over reacting and I don't see how they could reasonably object to anyone using a motorhome to drive to a supermarket, rather than their car, providing they are genuinely going to buy food.  However I saw reports recently of MHs being vandalised in a supermarket car park but admittedly that was in a rural, touristy area, so maybe it wouldn't be a problem elsewhere.  Someone suggested displaying a notice in the window that you are a local, buying locally.  Of course if you live somewhere where there are supermarkets within a couple of miles of home it wouldn't be credible to be driving outside that local area and you might be noticed if you drive round and round in circles locally to clock up your 30 miles!

[StuartO]

Once upon a time, at least with petrol engines, you could disconnect the fuel supply and maybe also take the plugs out (or even just take out the rotor arm) and then turn the engine over with the starter motor to circulate the engine oil.  Even longer ago you could turn the engine over with the starting handle.

Is there an equivalent technique for turning over a diesel engine without starting it?

[Deneb]

StuartO - 2020-03-31 11:58 AM

Once upon a time, at least with petrol engines, you could disconnect the fuel supply and maybe also take the plugs out (or even just take out the rotor arm) and then turn the engine over with the starter motor to circulate the engine oil.  Even longer ago you could turn the engine over with the starting handle.

Is there an equivalent technique for turning over a diesel engine without starting it?

No, certainly not with a modern injection diesel. Even the process you describe would result in some wear.On my old Ford Essex engine it was dead easy to remove the distributor, and drive the shaft with a socket in an electric drill. The shaft also drove the oil pump, so be turning it for a few seconds, rotating the crankshaft 180 degrees and repeating, you could circulate the oil with minimal movement of bearings. A few minutes to refit the distributor and re-time it, and job was done!

[flicka]

Just a thought,

Would a battery power pack work for you ?

Charge in the house, then transfer into the Motorhome & connect to the battery.

Then repeat as necessary.

I understand Halfords are still open for cycle maintenance or on-line sourses.