Guest Peter Sharpe Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I'm all for a bit of lively discussion, but the thread, which you may or may not have seen, appeared to have been started by someone with a personal axe to grind, who exposed himself to be as much of an extremist as those he chose to condemn. Although the brotherhood of the motorhome is a fairly broad church (if you will pardon the expression), the post was clearly intended to be provocative and was possibly aided by a couple of co-conspirators. May I politely remind forum users of the purpose of this forum and request that those who wish to debate unrelated matters take their personal angst to a forum more suitable for such discussions - I can't suggest one, but knowing the diversity of the internet, I'm sure a suitable one exists somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Annie Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Well done and thank you, Peter. We could not agree more. We thought of posting something similar ourselves but did not want to prolong this nonsense. Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Lawton-Harris Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Pity we don't have the same rights as our cousins in the USA. They have freedom of speech. Not for motor-homer owners apparently. It's a matter of we don't agree with what you say so we will silence you.. Speaks volumes does it not. Once again it proves my point. You just cannot help it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Tomlinson Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Sorry, Peter Lawton-Harris, although I am a fairly militant atheist myself, I agree with Peter Sharpe that this Forum is not the place for debating such matters. That said, one way it might become relevant would be if one of us were to be touring the eastern Med when there was a flare-up in the Moslem-Christian dingdong, and got ourselves killed because “he is White, therefore he must be a Christian”. To put it bluntly, I don’t want to carry the can for Richard Coeur de Leon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Lawton-Harris Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Bill you must not assume that I am atheist just because I am not a religionist.There is a world of difference. It is for atheists to prove the non-existance of God which is as difficult as trying to prove the existance. If anything I am iconoclastic and not just in religious metters, much more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 No Clive - just some people old enough to know better ranting on about things that had nothing to do with the purpose of this forum. Yawn, yawn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Lawton-Harris Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Derek, the solution is in your hands and conveneiently for you it's simple. Don't go there. If the kitchen is too hot , keep out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ana Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 This has mystified me! I think there are other "kitchens" (forums) more suited for this particular discussion?!! Ana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Lawton-Harris Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 And where have you popped up from Ana ? It's nothing serious I just happen to be a mischievous grumpy old man. It's amazing how many rise to the bait, I wish I could pull Salmon out of the Tay as easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tony S Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 I don't know any other of the forum users. I'm just back from the extremely beautiful and thought provoking Cathar region, (where the last cathar was exterminated in 1321) and very surprised to see that the cathar column has been censored. I don't see why we should just talk about our vehicles problems on this forum. Motorhoming is (or should be) all about travel and broadening the mind. My original missive was entitled 'Cathars- not for the squeamish' but the problem seems to be not the fact that many thousands of Cathars were burnt at the stake as the fact that as civilised motorhomers we should refrain from mentioning it to avoid hurting the feelings of anyone sharing the religion of the perpetrators. Surely, we own our motorhomes to travel around and broaden our minds, don't we? Many British motorhomers visit the site of the Normandy landings, and anyone visting will learn the facts of the German occupation of France. The fate of the Cathars is little known. When I travel I like to be informed, which is why I do a bit of research before. In my original message I briefly related their fate and concluded by saying that I was happy to be an atheist, just as a German visiting the Normandy landing beaches might say I'm happy I wasn't(or am not) a Nazi. I'm not prepared to travel around like an idiotic tourist who takes his living room with him (and his fixed ideas). That's how I found out that the 'Tour de France' has very little to do with sport and a lot to do with drug dealing. (On this forum I was told to shut up about that).Francis Cavanna, who wrote the anti religion piece I translated, is 83 years old, (and still very anti religion), and a very respected author in France. Considering the atrocities that have (and still are) been carried out in the name of religion, I consider an atheist stance to be highly respectable and very worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Lawton-Harris Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Bully for you Tony S. You are too young to have learned that it doesn't matter if you are right and attempt to speak the truth. It's not the truth that matters to idiots it's what they BELIEVE to be the truth and woe betide anybody who dares to challenge them. You should not be suprised how brutal people can be. Why they might even nail you to a cross and then say "oops sorry" but then carry on doing the same thing to others. If you are not a religionist that does not mean that you have to be the accepted alternative of atheiasm. One can take the middle road and decide that neither know if such a being as a God exists and giggle at both. at the moment I am having a little health problem and I have some friends that insist on praying for me. That's why it doesn't get any better and it's not working for the Pope either. Will they never learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MockJock Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Salmon??? Tay ??? What catholic tastes you soft southern jessies have !!! I'm heading for a week on the Dionard and NO forum access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Peter: You obviously believe strongly in what you are saying and I admire you for it. Tony: I'm not sure what you believe but, as you write for a motorhome magazine, I'm certain you will know that you wouldn't get your Tour de France or Cathars/religion stuff published unexpurgated. However, whatever you both believe, it seems to me that neither of you is currently making a positive contribution to this forum. Personally, I couldn't care less about your opinions, but I fully appreciate they will be offensive to many. I shall continue to ignore your outbursts as strong reactions only stroke your egos. And if you do ever have any questions that are motorhome related then, as far as I'm concerned, you are on your own. (Just as a matter of interest, is there any forum-reader - other than Tony and Peter - who has actually enjoyed this recent episode?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Lawton-Harris Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 To quote you Derek:- "as far as I am concerned you are on your own" . (A bit childish that, would you not think?) Taking one's "bat and ball" home. One could believe that there is a bit of religious intolerence in there somewhere. A fussy and choosy Good Samariton ? You are not prepared help those that have a different viewpoint than you have? Oh Dear!Oh dear! Shall I now sell my motor home now that you have abandoned me ? Whatever will become of me ? Lighten up and be a bit more tolerant. Opinions only become offensive to those that choose them to be so. Nothing you or anybody says can possibly offend me or make me angry because I choose not to let it. I don't get angry, just disappointed Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tony S Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 I believe in freedom of speech and actually, Derek, I did get the Cathar article printed a couple of years ago, saying exactly the same things.(and an article on Corsica that 'pulled no punches') I believe it to be a credit to the editor of the mag concerned that he prints my articles, that sometimes sail a bit close to the wind, but always with a four square dose of humour. And really, I don't see why the fate of the Cathars (or any other subject) can't be mentioned on this forum. (that has a very resticted readership) The tragedy of the Cathars is entirely true, though little known except to visitors to the Cathar region. The reason I started writing articles is because I found that the usual ones published in all the motorhome mags (french and english)were terribly boring and I wrote to a couple of mags to tell them so. One editor wrote back to say 'If you think you can do better...' and that's how I got started. In thirty articles I've been censored by the editor once only - I did an article on the 'Tour de France' and he saw fit to remove a jibe concerning professional cyclists. I asserted that (they) 'pump more into their veins whilst on the 'tour' than the members of the Rolling Stones had the habit of injecting into theirs in their heyday on their 'world tours''. An editor 'edits' after all. Still, web forums are not magazines. They're the equivalent of 'speakers corner' in London, or should be. I saw an imitation log fire, specially for motorhomes advertised in one mag recently, and I felt quite sad. Though I suppose that with two or three flying ducks placed on the wall above, motorhomers could feel at home anywhere, especially if their aim is to sail through entire regions without a thought for the local history or customs. I prefer to learn from my travels, and to share what I learn. The technical side of motorhoming is what you excel in - I try to make a contribution on the local history, political information and the learning side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest annie Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Oh dear, for what it's worth, we did read all about the Cathars before visiting the area. Although I'm doing the opposite (by posting this) I suggest that none of us rises to the bait by continuing this correspondence. Perhaps someone should start a new post by raising the question of Richard III. Perhaps he would have had better luck if he had been able to say "a motor caravan, a motor caravan, my Kingdom for a motor caravan!" That at least would have made that subject appropriate for this Forum. Let us now ignore this string. Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Lawton-Harris Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Annie....if you cannot participate and contribute. And wish to supress those that do. Would you not be better going back into your closet? It's not compulsory to read items in the forum and if conversations are going to be limited to the mechanics of motor homes it sure is going to be a very dull world. That world is for those that either choose or are incapable of elevating any debate, whatever the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tony S Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Well, although I'm grateful to Derek U for several of his technical explanations, I must admit thatI'm a bit like 'Edina' in the Abs Fab seial - who keels over when her accountant tries to explain a finer point of accountancy. Of course, technical wizards are irreplacable, but motorhoming doesn't involve just running a vehicle. A very dull world indeed that would be. We broach all subjects at home, which is probably why our two children are still motorhoming with us at 19 and 25 years old. This weekend our son had a friend to stay who proclaims himself a 'Libertarian' and who lives in a free love, anarchist community. Although we don't agree with his views we listened to his viewpoint with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 "a 'Libertarian'" I though that was someone who wore a liberty bodice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Norma Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Sorry - been away for the last week. How I agree with Peter Sharpe et al... One or two unnecessary axes seem to be being ground on this site at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Lawton-Harris Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 You agree with Peter Sharpe Norma: SO? What is the significance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 You need Pol to keep this one going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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