Chausson 12v fridge problem

[JohnPG]

First post.... please be kind

 

We have an exhire 2018 Chausson. The fridge works on 240v and gas, but stubbornly refuses 12v.

I've done the basic checks. Fuses ok in the main board.

I've read about the Boite Relais Security. One behind the drivers seat, one in the wardrobe. I have no idea how anyone accesses these.... I gave up when I concluded I could get access, but would be unable to put it back.

Nothing looks blown at the back of the fridge.

 

Any suggestions welcome, including recommendations of a firm in Yorkshire that would be able to look at it, or other fuses to consider.

 

Many thanks for all comments.

John

[Charles Chodkowski]

The 12v side of the fridge will only work if tnie engine is running. I mention this ,because if you are new to motorhoming it is something that you may not be aware of.

PLEASE do not take offence.

[JohnPG]

Hi Charles,

Thank you for your response. No offence taken.

 

We're not quite brand new to it - 4-5 years in. This is second and newer van and the lack of 12v isn't usually a problem. Fridge chilled on the drive via 240v and then onto gas / electric when we stop. Generally even 3-4 hours in the UK the fridge stays cold. But, we generally go to the south of France in the summer and last year, whilst manageable not to have 12v, it's just annoying.

 

I've been lazy not to sort it from last summer, but in preparation for this summer now looking to get it sorted.

 

Thanks

John

 

[weldted]

Are there any other issues such as an electric step not retracting or the habitation batteries not charging whilst driving. The fridge will have two 12 volt supplies, one light cable for the operation control and a heavier one only live when the engine is running. Can you remove the lower vent and check both supplies are reaching the fridge. The heavier one requires and D+ current to energise the control relay. This cuts of when the engine is stopped to prevent the batteries running flat

[JohnPG]

No other electric issues that we're aware of.

 

There's no electric step, and I had just assumed that the hab batteries were charging whilst driving, but I'll check that tonight (Is checking via a USB in the TV socket ok? I would expect a jump / increase once the engine is started assuming).

 

The children run their devices off the hab USB's when travelling without issue, but on reflection I don't have anything to confirm that this isn't just pulling from the hab batteries.

 

I had a look in the lower vent to try to test the supplies - but it's straight onto circuit boards - nothing obvious to be able to unclip to be able to test the supplies.

 

Thanks for your thoughts

[Brian Kirby]

JohnPG - 2021-05-12 9:53 AM

No other electric issues that we're aware of.

There's no electric step, and I had just assumed that the hab batteries were charging whilst driving, but I'll check that tonight (Is checking via a USB in the TV socket ok? I would expect a jump / increase once the engine is started assuming).

The children run their devices off the hab USB's when travelling without issue, but on reflection I don't have anything to confirm that this isn't just pulling from the hab batteries.

I had a look in the lower vent to try to test the supplies - but it's straight onto circuit boards - nothing obvious to be able to unclip to be able to test the supplies.

Thanks for your thoughts

As it's a 2018 van, and ex hire, are there any warranties either from Chausson or the seller that might help?

 

Failing that, the two most likely possibilities are that the 12 element has failed (or that a wire to it is disconnected), or that there is a fault in the 12 supply from the alternator to the fridge. Either would require a multi-meter to explore, and a degree of familiarity with the wiring and the fridge itself to be able to do so in a reasonably time efficient way.

 

So two thoughts. First, a Chausson dealer near where you live to do both (which should be the most certain route) or to look on the fridge manufacturer's (Dometic? Thetford?) website for a nearby service engineer.

 

Chausson dealers in your (broad! :-)) area seem to be Lowdham in Huddersfield, Emm-Bee in Bury, or Tyne Valley in Burnopfield - SW of Newcastle on the A692.

[Keithl]

John,

 

Is your Chausson based on a Fiat Ducato?

 

If yes then I think there is a junction box on the rear of the 'B' pillar, just behind the drivers seat (RH side) where Fiat provides connections and fuses for the bodybuilder to connect to. Try looking there for blown fuses.

 

Keith.

[mgnbuk]

It's 3 years since I had rather different 12v frdige problems with a Chausson - in my case the fridge ran fine on 12v with the engine running, but the "Boite relais" box that was supposed to connect the habitation electrics to the vehicle electrics when the engine was running failed to do so & the hab battery went flat while travelling. This was eventually traced to a badly made crimp connection that was only working intermittently & not bringing in the relay, so the fridge was running solely off the hab battery. Not great to arrive at the end of the day with a flat hab battery & an electric drop-down bed !

 

From the checks I did (the fault showed up on the first day of a 3 week Continental trip) I seem to recall that the 12V supply to the fridge comes from a relay on the distribution unit in the "Technibox". The fridge would certainly run on 12V if the distribution unit saw that the engine was running from the rise in cab battery voltage when the engine was running. The "Boite Relais" have 2 fuses in them - a 40 or 50A strip fuse for the switched current & a smaller blade fuse for the relay coil. I doubt these are to blame, though, as they just switch the hab 12V system to either the vehicle electrics or the battery charger electrics depending on where the habitaion area is getting its' supply from. On the switch panel by the door there are two symbols (top RH corner IIRC) - one shows mains connected, the other vehicle electrics connected & these effectively show which "Boite relais" is being used.

 

Again IIRC, there are two 12v supplies to the fridge - a light duty supply to the fridge control unit that is present all the time & a heavy supply to the element that is switched on when the engine is running. You seem to be getting the light supply, as the control panel for the fridge would appear to be working to get 240v & gas operation, so you must be missing the heavy supply. If the heavy duty fuse for the fridge on the distribution panel is OK, the relay associated with fridge 12V operation on that panel may be suspect, or the wiring from the distribution unit to the fridge. Given my problem was caused by a badly crimped on "Fast-on" blade connector that connected to the distribution board, it might be worthwhile checking these as well as the wiring loom.

 

The documentation pack for my Chausson had a couple of wiring / schematic diagrams for the habitation wiring that, once I got my head around them as they are in a very different form to the industrial control schematics I am used to, were quite helpful and did accurately describe the electrical system.

 

HTH

 

Nigel B.

[JohnPG]

Hello Brian,

Thanks. Sadly we're pretty sure the warranties won't stand. We don't have records of services, hab checks etc so unlikely that a second owner will be able to pursue these. Having tried on other vehicles to pursue warranties where I was confident that we were entitled, the pushback and excuses have led me to conclude this isn't worth pursuing.

 

I wasn't sure quite how specific to be geographically. We're North Yorkshire, (just north of Leeds) so near West Yorkshire and it's businesses potentially more appropriate than say a North East located North Yorkshire. I concluded that we'd travel for a couple of hours so thought vague would be ok.

 

I have a multimeter, but the wiring just seemed odd at the back of the fridge. I might open that up again and see if I get a reading and then probably contact Lowdham and get ready to sit down for the quote.

 

Thanks

John

 

[JohnPG]

Hi Keith

It's actually on the Ford Transit. There are connections just behind the drivers seat and in the wardrobe, but it looks to me as though I need to start the drivers seat to get decent access which is when my wife started to rein me in and suggest asking for help.

 

Thanks

 

John

[buddy]

If you can say which make and model the fridge is someone may know which connections need to be checked for power but if you need someone to look at it ,as suggested, a mobile engineer, either fridge or Motorhome/caravan could work out less expensive.

There should be someone in your area who is an Ncc approved repairer and would come to you if needed.

[Keithl]

John,

 

If you need a local engineer then have a look on the MCEA website...

 

https://www.mobilecaravanengineers.co.uk/find-an-engineer/

 

Keith.

[mgnbuk]

" I concluded that we'd travel for a couple of hours so thought vague would be ok. "

 

I'm in Huddersfield & my Chausson came from EmmBee Motorhomes in Bury. This is usually less than an hour for me, so should be under 2 hours for you. I am much nearer Lowdhams Huddersfield (also Chausson agents) than EmmBee, but chose to buy from EmmBee - make of that what you will.

 

EmmBee are Chausson agents & their technician found the intermittent fault on mine. Their workshops are busy now, though, due to the current situation - I booked my current Carado (gave up on Chausson, but stuck with EmmBee) in for a hab check in July in early April.

 

Nigel B.

[Alanb]

John,

 

If further help is to be provided, some simple testing will be necessary.

 

You say that you have a multimeter. Are you confidant in using it, to take voltage readings on your 12V electrical system?

 

Perhaps a simple start would be to check the voltage of your habitation battery, at the battery terminals. If this is done both with, and without the engine running, a higher voltage with the engine running will confirm that the battery is receiving charge from the alternator.

 

If an increase in voltage is seen, repeat test with engine running and fridge selected to 12V. A slightly lower voltage would indicate that the fridge is drawing some current.

 

There has been no mention of checking the fuse for the fridge 12V element..

"Technibox" just seems to be a fancy name for a services cupboard. From a little research it seems to contain a fairly standard 3 box CBE electrical installation. The right hand of the three boxes labelled DS300xx will contain most of your 12V distribution fuses. Unclip the clear plastic cover and locate the fridge fuse with a snowflake icon, probably 20A colour coded yellow. Check this fuse for continuity. Alternatively but not so decisive, check for no red LED lit behind fuse, with fridge on 12V, and engine running. Also try pulling the fridge fuse, and repeating test with fridge on 12V, and engine running. This should make the fuse failure LED illuminate.

 

The results of these tests should provide a clue, as to where your problem lies, and may help to keep the moths out of your wallet.

 

Alan

[JohnPG]

Hi Nigel,

Thanks. Yes, it has power. The error message on the screen says there is a 12v error when running so I'm confident that we're not getting power (or not enough power for it to run).

I've now had the multimeter into the back, and can conclude the following

- WITHOUT the engine running there is no power (as expected)

- With the engine running, there is 14.6v coming through

 

So, I'm concluding that

- Its nothing to do with the boite relays. All those are working

- there is a blown fuse or issue with the circuit board at the back of the fridge.

- Or there is something in the fridge.

 

If it's the fuse on the board, I assume a new board. Will have to look if I can get one of these.

 

Thanks and kr

 

John

 

(Edited as per later post - Keithl)

[JohnPG]

Hi Alan,

Thanks.

Not being confident, I attempted to book it into Chausson, who are full until October. They recommended a couple of mobile electricians who are also not able to take bookings, but helpful enough to encourage taking a reading. Consequently I used the multimeter for the first time last night.

So, having checked the power coming into the back of the fridge, there is 14.6v coming through with the engine running, before it gets to the circuit board.

So, likely a blown fuse on the circuitboard, or in the fridge.

Access seems....tricky.

Thanks for all assistance so far.

[Alanb]

Hi John,

 

I am pleased that you have taken the plunge and used your multimeter. May I add a piece of advice? Always check the correct insertion of test leads, and range selection before using.

 

I think that there is a small error in your reply to Nigel. Surely you meant "WithOUT the engine running, there is no power (as expected)."

 

Is the fridge manual energy selection (MES), or automatic energy selection (AES)? The fact that you have no voltage without the engine running suggests the former, but please confirm.

 

It may help diagnosis, if you can quote the fridge make and model number.

 

If the fridge is AES, it could be that it is missing the simulated D+ supply from the CBE DS300 unit located in the Technibox.

 

Alan

[JohnPG]

Hi Alanb

 

Absolutely correct. What a dreadful typo. Completely reverses the information in the sentence.

 

WithOUT the engine running there was no power. (Original post edited - Keithl)

 

Thanks for the tips on use of multimeter. I did get the range correct, but probably got the leads wrong. By changing them around I went from "-14.6" (negative) to "14.6" (positive). Perhaps erroneously concluded it didn't matter too much

 

The fridge is a Thetford 3142. Error code 6.

I think it is has an automatic selection. The LED screen has a big 'A' on it - but that I can override it to choose if I want to. I think I'll have to look up the last point so thanks for putting me in that direction.

 

Thanks and kr

 

John

[buddy]

The Thetford trouble shooting guide for model 3142 says that fault 6 is DC voltage out of range , that is below 10v or over 15v , It goes on to say that if the voltage being read is between these figures (over 10 or below 15 volts) the problem is either a faulty power board or a faulty solar controller (if solar is fitted).

If the solar, if fitted, is faulty you will also be getting very high battery voltage readings on your Motorhome control display.

[Brian Kirby]

JohnPG - 2021-05-14 8:10 AM

Hi Alan,

Thanks.

Not being confident, I attempted to book it into Chausson, who are full until October. They recommended a couple of mobile electricians who are also not able to take bookings, but helpful enough to encourage taking a reading. Consequently I used the multimeter for the first time last night.

So, having checked the power coming into the back of the fridge, there is 14.6v coming through with the engine running, before it gets to the circuit board.

So, likely a blown fuse on the circuitboard, or in the fridge.

Access seems....tricky.

Thanks for all assistance so far.

I'm a bit puzzled now! :-) You say you have 14.6V to the back of the fridge with the engine running, that the fridge is automatic energy selection, that it doesn't cool on 12V, but you haven't mentioned any error codes. (But see PS below.)

 

As it seems the fridge control panel (and I assume the fridge interior light) is working it seems you have a constant 12V supply to the fridge.

 

If there is a failure of the 12V heater supply you should (from a Thetford/Norcold manual I have for a different model fridge) be seeing a spanner symbol plus a number at the right hand end of the fridge control panel.

 

You've also said that the fridge is set to "A" - so on auto energy selection. You should see, when on mains, a plug symbol; when on 12V a battery symbol; when on gas a flame symbol. Do you see these as you switch energy sources? (For which you obviously need 230V, plus gas, available.)

 

With gas plus 230V connected and on, the fridge should automatically select 230V (Plug symbol). If the 230V is then disconnected the fridge should automatically switch to gas (Flame symbol). If the engine is then started (with 230V still off) the fridge should switch to 12V (Battery symbol). If the engine is then stopped with the gas supply connected and on but the 230V supply still disconnected, there should be a pause of approximately 15 minutes before the gas will re-ignite (to ensure the gas does not ignite during re-fuelling the vehicle.

 

If you leave the fridge switched on but with no energy supply available after a while the control panel will begin blinking.

 

Have you tried manually switching the fridge to alternative energy sources by pressing the rectangular "virtual" source selection button just left of the "A"?

 

Silly question, maybe, but how do you actually know that the fridge isn't working on 12V? If it failed to maintain temperature while driving, but otherwise maintained temperature when on 230V and gas, then it seems most likely that either the 12V element has failed, or the 12V supply to the element has failed. In the latter case this could be a disconnect between the element and ground, or between the leisure battery (if CBE electrics then in the DS3** distribution box) and the fridge.

 

The Thetford instructions give the following insulation colours for the 12V connections wiring(which, of course, may not have been adopted by Chausson!):

12V (+) supply to fridge element (only live with engine running): red. Ground (-) from fridge element: white. (These two connections will be in noticeably heavier gauge cable.)

12V (+) supply to fridge controls (permanently live): purple. Ground (-) from fridge controls: black.

12V switching signal from D+ (live only with engine running): orange. No specific ground connection for this purpose.

 

In addition, there should be a 30/40A fuse at the leisure battery + terminal on the fridge supply (or, if CBE electrics, as Alan suggests, this should be located on the DS3** distribution box.) Check that fuse. If unsure, replace like for like with a new one. It could be that simple.

 

P.S. Just seen your further, and Geoff's (buddy's) posts above, so you have a fault code of 6 indicating 12V supply Voltage out of range.

 

Two other things if CBE electrics. The D+ signal is simulated by the CBE DS3** distribution box. There is a bridging link within the CBE DS box specifically for AES fridges. This must be present and connected as shown in the CBE manual. Might be worth just checking that both link connections are good.

 

If you don't have the CBE manuals to make sense of this, they are downloadable here: https://www.manualslib.com/products/Cbe-Ds-300-11236443.html Just match the download to the control panel type in your van.

[Derek Uzzell]

The Thetford User Manual relevant to the N3142 model (now discontinued) can be found on this link and has some trouble-shooting advice on Pages 24-26

 

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1892269/Thetford-N3000-Series.html?page=1#manual

 

Installation instructions are here

 

https://www.thetford.cn/pdf/Thetford%20IM%20N3000%20Series%20Fridges%201114-V24.pdf

 

A couple of Thetford ’Service Mode’ PDF files can be downloaded (GOOGLE on thetford n3142 error codes ) and I’ve copied below the diagram for Error Code 6.

 

There’s also a Thetford YouTube video about Error Code 6.

 

 

Thetford offers a 3-year warranty and its terms and conditions are here

 

https://www.thetford-europe.com/gb/warranty-0

 

Assuming that John’s fridge/freezer were still within the 3-year period and an authorised Thetford Service Partner investigated the problem and found the fridge at fault, it would be worth making an under-warranty claim. (I’m not sure if the Chausson motorhome being ex-hire would impact negatively on the Thetford warranty, but it would be sensible not to highlight that fact if making a claim.)

[Brian Kirby]

And that Thetford warranty document includes a link to their dealers/service centres database, which gives a fair number of choices around York, among which is Caravan Services York (a service centre) , at 3 Northlands Avenue YO32 9FS - which is a private house, so presumably a mobile service - Tel: 07761 753814. So presumably worth a call. Well done Derek!

 

We're not too far into 2021, so the warranty on a 2018 van may still be valid. Most such warranties start from the date of first registration of the vehicle, although that is not stated in the linked document. However, some manufacturers are making exceptions to warranty conditions in recognition of the various Covid restrictions, so it might be best to have "only just noticed the fault" when making contact with the service centre! ;-) You never know!

[Alanb]

buddy - 2021-05-14 4:31 PM

 

The Thetford trouble shooting guide for model 3142 says that fault 6 is DC voltage out of range , that is below 10v or over 15v , It goes on to say that if the voltage being read is between these figures (over 10 or below 15 volts) the problem is either a faulty power board or a faulty solar controller (if solar is fitted).

If the solar, if fitted, is faulty you will also be getting very high battery voltage readings on your Motorhome control display.

When I read this I withheld a post that I had just written. For personal reasons, I was unable to consider the matter yeserday pm.

 

In general, I am now thinking on similar lines to Brian, in that the 12V element power to the fridge should be permanently available to an AES fridge. Could it be that at the moment fridge is switched on, it checks for the 12V element supply, and finding it absent generates the alarm, and then refuses to operate on the 12V supply which only becomes available when the engine is started.

 

Simple test. Switch fridge off, start engine, switch on fridge, reset any fridge alarms, then try on 12V.

 

Alan

[JohnPG]

Hi Derek,

Many thanks for your post.

Hmm, there's an increasing risk I might be about to suffer a salutary lesson from being willing to accept this error because I could live with it.

 

The motorhome has a registration date of 1 May 2018. A 3 year warranty may have run out a fortnight ago! I'll pick up the phone this morning to a local service centre on the Thetford Website.

 

Regarding the youtube video. I'd very much now like to check the 20amp fuse on the power board. But, does that mean taking the fridge out? I have no issue with doing so, but just before I start dismantling the interior to gain access, should I be able to gain access to the powerboard fuse without doing so?

 

It's worth a few hours to see.

 

Thanks and kind regards

 

John

 

[JohnPG]

Thanks Brian and Derek.

 

Yep, some calls being made this morning to Thetford service centres and dealers......

 

I'll provide an update when I have it.

 

Kind regards

 

John