Patricia Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Thanks to a post on another thread I have found out that my motorhome was not covered when parked by my holiday home in France. This insurance was issued by Caravan Guard. Their wording reads that the vehicle is covered when "being driven or used" and the interpretation is that used means being slept in. Interestingly I have now moved to Saga who cover the vehicle when parked at the house and they also say that if necessary I could park at an airport "for a reasonable amount of time while I flew back to the UK". I know several companies who only cover for 36 hours. I think many motorhomers may not have been aware of these endorsements. Certainly I think the Caravan Guard one might catch people unaware, for instance if they fancied a short trip while outside the UK or a night in an hotel etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 thanks for post its worth checking out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itexuk Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Also with Saga and the cover abroad is for 365 days a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendipman Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Very interesting..So if you had a night in an hotel,parked outside,no cover?? (?) (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 mendipman - 2009-01-31 12:46 PM Very interesting..So if you had a night in an hotel,parked outside,no cover?? (?) (?) That's exactly what they said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendipman Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Thanks,Patricia..Did Caravan Guard say this "ruling" also applies to the U.K.,if I stay in a motel/hotel in Devon,Dorset etc???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 mendipman - 2009-01-31 8:12 PM Thanks,Patricia..Did Caravan Guard say this "ruling" also applies to the U.K.,if I stay in a motel/hotel in Devon,Dorset etc???? I didn't ask them that and the wording that they quoted to me came under the section Endorsement: European Travel. I have had a quick look through the booklet but cannot see anything about stays in England. Saga told me that if you went to an airport in England then you would expect to be able to park it there but whether Caravan Guard is the same I don't know. I did make a note though that the actual insurance is through Royal & Sun Alliance so whether this rule applies to other policies underwritten by them I don't know. I have also noticed that a lot of goods inside the m/home are not covered by them but will be by Saga and I am about £7 a month better off too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I remember Mel Eastburn warning about this quite a while ago. Comfort Insurance's policy (underwritten by Norwich Union) includes the following statement in the Continental Use section: "....full cover as described by your policy applies....provided....the vehicle remains in your custody or control. If for any reason your vehicle will not be within your custody or control for a period in excess of 36 hours, then you must notify Comfort in advance. Please refer to Section I of this policy for information on security of stored vehicles." I'd guess that most (all?) motorhome policies will have some sort of limitation clause of this type, though the exact wording and clarity of the clause will undoubtedly differ. I would interpret Comfort's statement as permitting Patricia to park her motorhome by her French holiday home while she was resident in the property, and for the vehicle to still be covered insurance-wise as it would be in her "custody or control" on an on-going basis. However, should she decide to nip back to the UK for several days, leaving the motorhome unattended, insurance cover would cease 36 hours after her departure unless Comfort had been forewarned and agreed to extend cover for the period she was away. This doesn't seem unreasonable to me, as the status of the vehicle would now move from being 'used' to being 'stored'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Strange one this gang, because I changed from Saga, just before we left the UK because they didn't cover me for longer than 3 days if we had to leave the van! I rang to ask them specifically because Anns' dad isn't very well and just in case we needed to get back in a hurry by aircraft and had to leave the van. They told me it wasn't allowed to leave the van even if it was in secure storage and the cover to remain for longer than 3 days. Now 3 days is strictly longer than 36 hours so it is longer than the normal policy restrictions, but then what is a "reasonable time"? Comfort on the other hand stated that for longer than 3 days I would need to contact them, who would get in touch with the underwriter, who could arrange secure storage for up to 7 days, subject to why we were leaving the van. We would have to take any valuable with us, put on any extra locks fitted and alarm it. After the 7 days I would either have to return to it myself or get a nominated driver to return it back to the UK. Luckily I have several mates I used to work with who were more than happy to agree to be "on cover" for if I needed them. Some even kindly agreed to stay with Ann and go on the rest of our trip, so she wouldn't miss out, if I had to come back alone! You can't buy friendship like that eh!! I would suggest that if anyone has to leave their van for longer than an overnight stay anywhere, they contact their insurance company anyway just to confirm the cover remains in fully place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 This is interesting Tomo but I only have the operator's word about being able to leave the m/home for a reasonable time although he definitely said it was longer than 36 hours but less than 6 months after which it would need to be re-registered. When I receive the paperwork I will look for this although I have no intention of leaving the m/home and flying home (they would have to drug me first to fly at all, never mind on my own!). I did however learn about the 36 hour rule when we were insured with Comfort and my husband suffered a minor stroke. In the event they flew my son-in-law out to drive it home - something I always feel very guilty about now as of course I drive it all the time. However, then I think the stress was too much as Europ Assistance refused to pay his hospital bills etc. Anyway, I have moved back to Saga because of the clause about parking at the house. I had to do it in a hurry and got a very good quote but I thought other second home people might be unaware so I started this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'm not doubting your info Pat, but I think our different responses from the companies supports the need to check anyway. All insurance companies will wriggle out of paying up when they can by producing some clause or other out of the bag, so something in writing is a must as far as I am concerned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Tomo3090 - 2009-02-01 12:57 PM I'm not doubting your info Pat, but I think our different responses from the companies supports the need to check anyway. All insurance companies will wriggle out of paying up when they can by producing some clause or other out of the bag, so something in writing is a must as far as I am concerned! Absolutely I couldn't agree more and will make that a priority during the 14 day grace. Who knows? If I was faced with a real emergency to get back to the UK I might find the courage from somewhere to fly (or at least take the train!) I learned the lesson not to trust insurance companies years ago with Europ Assistance who never paid up despite a long battle with them. This was because the operator had said all medical information had been recorded and no need to put it in writing again. Despite making a note of this "recorded" conversation when time came to claim they "had no record of the conversation" even though this was the one in which I had renewed the policy. We had insured with them for nearly 20 years but were left hundreds out of pocket. Needless to say I have never used them again but it is very distressing and the last thing you need when coping with serious illness. However it had never even occurred to me that I would not be insured when parked at the house, especially as it is a crime free area and nobody even locks their house doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losos Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hi Patricia, Thanks for this thread, I am planning to get my first ever motorhome this year and the insurance aspects I am currently looking at. I will be in a similar situation to you in so far as I will visiting our home in Czechland (Eastern Europe) and the motorhome will be garaged there for the winter. I will be there too but it seems I have to make sure whoever I insure with will continue to offer cover even when I am not actually sleeping in the van. BTW lovely avatar, can I ask if that lovely creature is yours ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Moral: do not, ever, take the word of an "operator" for anything. Even if the conversation is recorded, and you make, and keep, a note the time and date of the conversation, and the name of the person you spoke to, the record can become lost, corrupted, or accidentally erased. Beyond that, there is always scope for misunderstanding over what was said, and what was meant. Stressed people tend to hear the answer they want/need, and not necessarily the one that is given.Whenever you can, put your question in writing, preferably in a letter and not an e-mail (because e-mails tend to be less carefully phrased and are often rushed off), get someone else to check the sense and spelling before you post it, and await a written reply before you act. In effect, you are seeking advice on the contractor's interpretation of a clause in a complex contract, or seeking their agreement to a variation, or relaxation, of the terms of the contract. A telephone conversation is no way to do this where the conditions of the contract are in writing. The written version will always prevail where there is any doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Yes Losos thank you, she is mine and she causes quite a stir when we are out - not only good looking but a beautiful nature too. She loves everyone but particularly adores children and other dogs. Not a bit of good as a guard dog, although she does bark, but in reality she would lick an intruder to death! She is so gorgeous that I would dearly have loved to have puppies from her but no luck there and too old now as she is 7. Brian you are absolutely right and as soon as I receive the "small print" I shall study it and write to them accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I have just received an email from Saga in response to my enquiry about leaving the van in Portugal and flying back over Christmas. It says "For cover to remain in place on your vehicle we require that you stay with your vehicle whilst abroad therefore we would not offer cover if you were to leave your vehicle and return to the UK." So despite some suggestions that there is some leeway on this I would not risk it. But the problem is what the hell can we do???? Even if we left it in Fort Knox it wouldn't be covered!!!! Porky well fed and happy but not with insurance companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Absolute minefield isn't it? I am waiting for a phone call from Saga this minute. My insurance with Caravan Guard expires tonigt so have moved to Saga. So far I have received two envelopes from them, one stating that I have changed my details and the other thanking me for taking out a new policy BUT both quoting an incorrect registration number and several other errors. When they call back I shall insist on having in writing the assurances that I am insured when at the French house (this is crucial) and also if left at airport (not so important except in an emergency). Hope to post again on this subject later. PS Re another thread I will also ask the position about dogs in breakdown vehicles. Saga use the AA in England but could be anyone in France I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Patricia I have just had a telephone conversation with Camping and Caravan Club insurance 0844 770 4620 and I can only tell you what they have told me ( in other words yet to be confirmed ). There is no restriction on time abroad ( Europe ) or mileage ( may change in the future as underwriters try to tighten things up ) and they will accept return to the UK for a month if vehicle is left in a secure site. They do however require a tracker to be fitted. I must stress this is verbal at the moment, but if you are able it may be worth a call to them. I will post the outcome when I receive written confirmation. Porky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Cole Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hi Patricia, I have dug out my motorcaravan policy with Safeguard and had a good read through. Under foriegn travel and the EU it states that the policy provides the minimum cover you need by law in any member of the EU and Bulgaria, Iceland,Liechtenstein, Norway, Romania and Switzerland. The policy also provides full cover shown in the shedule in any country in the territorial limits as long as your motorcaravan is taxed and registered in the UK and your permanent home is in the UK and your visits are only temporary Under General conditions applying to this policy clause 17 states that your motor caravan must not be left unattended in a foreign country, whilst you return to the UK. Although I and sure that cover could be arranged in an emergency, I have spoken to Safeguard about providing cover in an emergency and they have said thy are looking into it and will come back to me. I will post the reply when I get it. There are lots of other clauses etc but this is the relevent bit you are concerned about in your polices. As for doggies in the event of a break down, France is very doggy friendly and I do not see this being a problem, hopefully we won't have to test this! I hope this helps. Regards geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendipman Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I contacted Caravan Guard about this subject and they have just phoned me saying that my insurance covers me to stay in a Motel/Hotel ,abroad or in the UK..and park outside !!I mentioned this forum and they will post a statement asap., when they register...I have used them for a couple of years and found them very helpful... -------------------------------------- RED HOT BANDS,com :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Geoff and Porky thanks for the replies. I have just had a long conversation with Saga and cleared up several points, not least of which is that the incorrect registration number was on the documents which I received yesterday (one set) and today (another set)! I am in possession of the Motor Correspondent address to which I shall write to obtain all the information in writing. Porky's reply seems to be correct for the reason he gave for returning to the UK i.e. holidays back home are not covered. However, in my case as I travel alone and if I had to return to the UK in an emergency i.e. it would take too long to drive back, then the underwriters would cover me although they may put some extra endorsements. I would have to contact them first. He read out to me the underwriters criteria but whether this appears in the customer's booklet I won't know until I receive one. With regards to someone else (sorry I have forgotten who it was but think it might be Tomo) who might have to return because they have left someone in the UK in poor health then the situation with most insurers including Saga would be bleak. Apparently they would say that they should not have travelled in the first place and there would be no cover (I am only repeating what I have been told). However, good news for me is that he insists that I would be covered at the house, which is my main concern, but of course I will insist on this in writing before the 14 day cooling off period ends. Finally, I asked about towing my French registered car back on an A-frame (very remote possibility) and that would be fine (obviously car only covered third party) but after all that I forgot to ask about breakdown with a dog! Sorry! PS Mendipman our posts must have crossed. I have just returned my new certificate due to start tomorrow to Caravan Guard. They need to get their act together I think to clarify the situation otherwise they are going to lose some business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Cole Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hi , Following my post yesterday regarding my question to Safeguard with regard to leaving motorhomes whilst flying back to the UK in an emergency. I had a call from them today and the position is that if you have to return to the Uk in and emergency and leave your motorhome abroad then they would on and individual basis consider covering the vehicle for a defined period. I also asked that if for some reason my motor home was damaged whilst parked at my property in France was I covered the answer was yes. Hope this helps clarify the position regarding insurance abroad. geoff C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 mendipman - 2009-02-03 5:06 PM I contacted Caravan Guard about this subject and they have just phoned me saying that my insurance covers me to stay in a Motel/Hotel ,abroad or in the UK..and park outside !!I mentioned this forum and they will post a statement asap., when they register...I have used them for a couple of years and found them very helpful... -------------------------------------- RED HOT BANDS,com :-D Very confused about their answer to you as they told me categorically no! No to staying in an hotel and no to parking at my French home. Still not received my correct papers from Saga but Caravan Guard called me quite late yesterday; said it was a courtesy call but hoped that I had found an insurer and was it Safeguard? Perhaps they are getting a bit worried now that other insurers give this cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Geoff sounds as if Safeguard are very similar to Saga then with regards to an emergency return to UK. Hope the small print will arrive tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Patricia Not too long ago there was a letter in a French motorhome magazine asking about A-frame towing in France. The writer had seen tourists doing it, liked the idea and wanted to know if it was OK legally. The reply was that using a motorhome to tow a car on an A-frame was illegal in France for French-registered vehicles. This was why A-frame towing-equipment was not on sale to the French general public. Using a trailer to carry the car was advised as this method was legally permissible. If correct, this may have legal and insurance implications should you ever decide to A-frame tow your French-registered car in France. I think you'd need to explore the insurance side very carefully before towing your car to the UK. Presumably it would be insured as a 'car' in France by a French insurance provider and as a 'trailer' by Saga on the trip home. It's an unusual scenario and it would be wise to confirm with all the insurance providers involved who would be covering what risk and the scope of that coverage. (I'd also want such confirmation to be in writing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.