ham Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Today an inquest reported into the death of 2 men who died in a Caravan fire in July, Whilst on Holiday at Barmouth. The cause of the fire was a coiled extension cable, Which overheated and caught fire . I have seen loads of cables still coiled up and connected to the electrical point here in the UK and abroad. It is something that frightens me. Another one is 2 extension leads joined together with no protection from any rain some just wrapped in a plastic carrier bag http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales- 15940837 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Correcting link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-15940837 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 This very topic was discussed recently and a small minority seemed to think that advising the uncoiling of all mains leads was paranoia - maybe this sad event might bring home the message. It does seem that as a race human kind is not capable of learning from it's own mistakes? Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I haven’t been able to find the recent “paranoia” discussion about uncoiling all hook-up cables/mains extension leads, but the warning is regularly given and the best-practice thinking behind the advice is sound. There’s even a Wikipedia entry about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extension_cord that says: “An extension reel can only be used to carry full rated current when fully extended since the portion on the reel constitutes a concentration of the loss power (the result of its series resistance) which is not suitably dissipated unless most of the cable is unreeled to expose it to ambient air.” It should perhaps be added that the explanation for the Barmouth caravan fire is speculative (hardly surprising in view of the damage it caused) and – on the face of it – questionable. The suggestion is that a coiled extension lead overheated, which then provoked overheating in a transformer that was powering a cool-box housed within the caravan’s awning. So we seem to be talking about a 12V-only cool-box (otherwise there’d be no need for a transformer) and, as the current-demand of such appliances is tiny, it’s hard to see why the extension lead (coiled or otherwise) should have overheated. There seems little doubt that the cause of the fire was electrical, but whether the coiled-up cable was the main culprit IMO remains moot. Regarding cable-to-cable connections, this earlier discussion may be of interest: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24393&start=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 There is a lot of paranoia about this subject. Use a 3kw fire on an uncoiled cable and you are in a risky situation. Charge a mobile phone and your more likely to break a leg tripping over the uncoiled cable. The missing factor is common sense, a scarce commodity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Very worth reminding people, It seems incredible but the first time I saw damage from this was 30 years ago in an office where a group of electronic design engineers who should have known better used an extension cable coiled up. Fortunately, on that occasion the only damage was a burnt circle in the carpet. Yet 3 years ago I still managed to weld 10 meters of cable together on one of these flat cable winders. :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdf Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Interesting to read this. Just returned from a week at Caravan Club Crystal Palace site where on at least two occasions we returned to the van to find that our hook up cable had been coiled up and put under van and on one occasion the electric had been switched off. Came to conclusion just as we were leaving that it had to be warden but couldn't 'speak' to them as office closed when we left. If anyone going there it might be worth watching your cable. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The risk is proportional to the cable load, and its cross section. A lot of so called hook-up cables are of only 1.5mm section. These can carry up to 15A, but must be fully unwound to do so. Others are of 2.5mm section and, being less prone to heating, can be used at about 75% full load while coiled. (Don't take my word for it, a number of extension reels have instructions for the load that can be applied when coiled.) The obvious advice is, if you don't understand the risk, fully unwind the cable. However, using a coiled cable will not cause overheating if cable section, and load, are appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I have a very strong view if a coiled up cable is rated at a reduced amperage compared to when unwound the lower rating should be used for the fuse value. Otherwise buy a heavier cable coil which is rated for your needs when coiled. This way you eliminate any issue if or if not coiled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopesy Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 gdf - 2011-11-30 9:55 AM Interesting to read this. Just returned from a week at Caravan Club Crystal Palace site where on at least two occasions we returned to the van to find that our hook up cable had been coiled up and put under van and on one occasion the electric had been switched off. Came to conclusion just as we were leaving that it had to be warden but couldn't 'speak' to them as office closed when we left. If anyone going there it might be worth watching your cable. Dave Well well, this happened to us to at Crystal Palace. I thought it was after the wardens were cutting the grass as we had been away form the van all day. I'll e-mail the CC and get them to pass it on. Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hi It seems to me that there is a lack of "definitions" in the discussions on this matter. By this i mean that there is a clear difference between an extension that is rolled on a purpose built roller and a loosely coilled extension lead. In the former case, if a wire is tightly rolled on an extension lead roller then there is limited opportunity for heat to escape and overheating is a high risk. However in the letter case, a loosely coiled extension lead will have significant opportunity for heat loss and there is a low/lower risk of overheating. The wikapedia item appears, on my reading, to be refering to a lead on a roller with limited heat loss opportunities. The incident in the paper is so lacking in detail it is impossible to judge what happened and appears to be speculation. The paper used the word "coiled" but they may have mean't rolled - especially as it was to a cooler outside. For me, i only uncoil sufficient wire to reach the plug - my wire is only loosely coiled and is usually even more loose when it is dropped on the ground - usually well away from the m/home due to laziness on my part. If a warden or some other citizen coiled a wire again i imagine it is fairly loose with significant opportunity for heat loss. You could almost ask "when is a wire coiled?" Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikyenfo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Dont worry too much just buy the ones with a thermal cut-out switch.Obvious really. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The people to whom this is most likely to happen have no understanding of current and heat and whilst it is all very well going into technical and theortical detail; it often falls on deaf or misunderstandings ears. SO unless you are well versed in this knowledge best practice has to be - fully uncoil all extension leads before use - ALWAYS. Simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I have seen a cable catch fire where it had been left on a reel, I always loop my cable up as this eliminates any risks plus is much easier to store away as it is flexible, but what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 trooper - 2011-11-30 5:11 PM I have seen a cable catch fire where it had been left on a reel, I always loop my cable up as this eliminates any risks plus is much easier to store away as it is flexible, but what do I know. You can always wind it round your wing mirror to reduce the trip hazard of cable on the floor! PLEASE don't do this - it's a JOKE!!!! I have to say that just in case any other idiots read this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I should have known better because I'm an engineer but I have managed to melt an extension cable. Don't forget that although you may think you only have a light load on it may be greater than you think if the battery charger cuts in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Tracker - 2011-11-30 5:14 PM trooper - 2011-11-30 5:11 PM I have seen a cable catch fire where it had been left on a reel, I always loop my cable up as this eliminates any risks plus is much easier to store away as it is flexible, but what do I know. You can always wind it round your wing mirror to reduce the trip hazard of cable on the floor! PLEASE don't do this - it's a JOKE!!!! I have to say that just in case any other idiots read this! I really can't see why trooper's comment should provoke such an extreme reaction. Surely the potential overheating problem lies not with what trooper does, but with cables wound tightly on reels of the type shown in the following examples? http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=50+metre+cable+reel&tag=googhydr-21&index=diy&hvadid=6961739886&ref=pd_sl_7t67s0brrm_b Trooper's method of cable storage is (as I understand it) as demonstrated on the following video-clip: It's a method I use for my own 10-metre and 25-metre hook-up cables and it does obviate any overheating risk. Obviously 'loose coiling' in this way will get progressively less practicable the longer the cable is, but, as I seldom use a hook-up cable and, when I do, rarely need the 25-metre one, that's not a problem for me. If I regularly used a long hook-up cable, then I'd have it on a reel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasher Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Still on the subject of extension leads, i put a tie wrap on the first coil of the lead, this makes it easier to wrap up. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 It's obvious that there is only a danger if cable is wound tightly round a reel. You could posibly use the energy produced for something else, How do you think electro magnets are made, these often get very hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-11-30 5:51 PM Tracker - 2011-11-30 5:14 PM trooper - 2011-11-30 5:11 PM I have seen a cable catch fire where it had been left on a reel, I always loop my cable up as this eliminates any risks plus is much easier to store away as it is flexible, but what do I know. You can always wind it round your wing mirror to reduce the trip hazard of cable on the floor! PLEASE don't do this - it's a JOKE!!!! I have to say that just in case any other idiots read this! I really can't see why trooper's comment should provoke such an extreme reaction. I don't think Trooper saw it as an extreme reaction Derek - or has your sense of humour hibernated early this winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Is this post a wind up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 ... no George, it's either just being strung out or going round in circles! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 About 25 years or more ago I was caravanning in the Alps in February while skiing at Le Grand Bornand, L'Escale Campsite. ( Have done so for the last 25 years) Temperatures around the -10 Centigrade most nights. The first few nights we had the EHU lead loosely coiled under the van. We used an electric fan heater for our main heating ( and incidently were toasty warm!) After a few days I checked the lead - it had melted about 6 inches into the packed ice under the van! Took me ages with kettles etc to extract the lead. Since then I have always totally uncoiled the EHU lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Tracker - 2011-11-30 10:19 PM Derek Uzzell - 2011-11-30 5:51 PM Tracker - 2011-11-30 5:14 PM trooper - 2011-11-30 5:11 PM I have seen a cable catch fire where it had been left on a reel, I always loop my cable up as this eliminates any risks plus is much easier to store away as it is flexible, but what do I know. You can always wind it round your wing mirror to reduce the trip hazard of cable on the floor! PLEASE don't do this - it's a JOKE!!!! I have to say that just in case any other idiots read this! I really can't see why trooper's comment should provoke such an extreme reaction. I don't think Trooper saw it as an extreme reaction Derek - or has your sense of humour hibernated early this winter? Are you saying that your "PLEASE don't do this - it's a JOKE!!!" had nothing to do with trooper's posting, but relates to your suggestion about winding the cable around the wing mirror? I suppose that might be one way of reading it, though it seems an odd thing to say in the middle of a serious discussion. I took your reference to "any other idiots" as being aimed at trooper, though perhaps you intended it to apply to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I think a lot of the problem is the 'Round' orange plastic reels which tightly wind the cable around the core, this doesn't allow any heat generated to dissapate, so the heat builds up melts the cable and the core. I use an oblong cable tidy similar to this : http://www.towsure.com/product/Mains_Extension_Cable_Keeper_with_Storage_Bag with this type of tidy the core doesn't get hot, in my experience anyway. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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