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Cone Country and average speed cams
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userBulletguy
Posted: 3 September 2018 8:24 PM
Subject: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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Returned back to UK last week and little has changed. Within minutes of exiting Dover via M20 i'm greeted by endless miles of cones, 50mph limits, and the gps bonging away like mad with average speed cams. About the only real motorway stretch i drove was the M40 where i was free to reach the mind blowing legal limit of 70mph......well whoopee doo!

Long stretches of average speed 50mph checks with cams seems to be little more than a cash collecting exercise with traffic ramming up desperate to get going! The few stretches free of speed cams (such as M40) has traffic flowing freely.



userTracker
Posted: 3 September 2018 8:34 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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You would really enjoy the M42 around Birmingham and the M6 from around Manchester to Stafford - almost continuous roadworks for what will laughingly be called a 'smart'motorway when it is finished - projected to be 2022 - it makes a mockery of a wealthy prosperous modern country's road transport structure - a bloomin' pathetic disgrace is what it really is.
useraultymer
Posted: 3 September 2018 9:06 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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Just spent a couple of weeks in Germany, without the van, but in own car.
80 mph is normal in the inside lane and there are long stretches where I was cruising at 115 but had people overtaking fast.
Will be hard to return to snails pace in " Great" Britain.
usercolin
Posted: 3 September 2018 9:20 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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The road system here seems to be broken, large increases in road traffic which must be generating equally large increases in revenues yet the roads are falling apart, the governments answer to overcrowded motorways is to do away with hard shoulder to make them 'smart', this has already resulted in several deaths yet they continue to roll them out.
userBulletguy
Posted: 3 September 2018 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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Tracker - 2018-09-03 8:34 PM

You would really enjoy the M42 around Birmingham and the M6 from around Manchester to Stafford - almost continuous roadworks for what will laughingly be called a 'smart'motorway when it is finished - projected to be 2022 - it makes a mockery of a wealthy prosperous modern country's road transport structure - a bloomin' pathetic disgrace is what it really is.

I know....M42 was my next step toward M6 and home. Afraid any motorway south of me is a total clusterf$$k. A 260 mile journey feels more like three times that. A fortnight back and i drive from West Pomeranian area of Poland to Asendorf in Germany via Autobahn.....430 miles, 6.5hrs including two coffee breaks. An easy pleasurable drive without ever reaching the max speed limit....not to mention no daft average speed cams.
userBulletguy
Posted: 3 September 2018 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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aultymer - 2018-09-03 9:06 PM

Just spent a couple of weeks in Germany, without the van, but in own car.
80 mph is normal in the inside lane and there are long stretches where I was cruising at 115 but had people overtaking fast.
Will be hard to return to snails pace in " Great" Britain.

Yep....130kph max though some Autobahn stretches are unlimited. Traffic flows freely. They make our motorway infrastructure and obsession over speed cams and cones look positively third world. Worth also noting the size of their service areas with rows of HGV's lined up. By comparison ours are the size of a postage stamp.

Edited by Bulletguy 2018-09-03 9:46 PM
userTracker
Posted: 3 September 2018 10:02 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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colin - 2018-09-03 9:20 PM

The road system here seems to be broken, large increases in road traffic which must be generating equally large increases in revenues yet the roads are falling apart, the governments answer to overcrowded motorways is to do away with hard shoulder to make them 'smart', this has already resulted in several deaths yet they continue to roll them out.


There was a broken down car and recovery truck on the one bit of almost finished 'smart' M6 yesterday and it is downright dangerous and stupid with much swerving and abrupt lane changes of those in the inside two lanes to avoid them. There are not even any off road refuge points or overhead lane markers to warn everyone else and it would take a more foolish man than I to be a breakdown recovery driver on that stretch.
The extra lane has been created by using the hard shoulder but without leaving anywhere for broken vehicles to safely stop. How can that be progress?
If that is smart heaven help us - dumb is the new smart it seems.

Edited by Tracker 2018-09-03 10:07 PM
userGeeco
Posted: 4 September 2018 4:07 AM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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Earlier this year we spent time in the north of Italy, Slovenia & Croatia by car. The north of Italy is full of speed cameras & not just on the Autostratas that are jammed full of HGV's especially around Milan. The other two were a pleasure in which to drive even if the speed limits were low. We have just booked flights for a UK holiday next year so your comments are not exciting me. I think it will be narrowboats & backroads for us & lots of coastal walks. cheers,
userMuswell
Posted: 4 September 2018 8:05 AM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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Tracker - 2018-09-03 10:02 PM

colin - 2018-09-03 9:20 PM

The road system here seems to be broken, large increases in road traffic which must be generating equally large increases in revenues yet the roads are falling apart, the governments answer to overcrowded motorways is to do away with hard shoulder to make them 'smart', this has already resulted in several deaths yet they continue to roll them out.


There was a broken down car and recovery truck on the one bit of almost finished 'smart' M6 yesterday and it is downright dangerous and stupid with much swerving and abrupt lane changes of those in the inside two lanes to avoid them. There are not even any off road refuge points or overhead lane markers to warn everyone else and it would take a more foolish man than I to be a breakdown recovery driver on that stretch.
The extra lane has been created by using the hard shoulder but without leaving anywhere for broken vehicles to safely stop. How can that be progress?
If that is smart heaven help us - dumb is the new smart it seems.


It would seem, from the attached, that they are no more dangerous and perhaps safer than the old arrangement. There are refuges, including one at least that I saw on the bottom end of the M6 on Sunday. It seems that the main problem is the idiots who don't observe the lane closed signs.

http://londonroadsafetycouncil.org.uk/m25-smart-motorways-are-having-no-adverse-effect-on-safety/
userstevec176
Posted: 4 September 2018 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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I don't really know what a smart motorway is other than we lose the hard shoulder. Maybe I'm one of a minority but when in my van I try to cruise at about 50/55 mph, I'm on holiday, and when in a area where average speed cams are I just stick cruise control on. Its not rocket science if you ignore the speed limit don't be surprised to get a ticket. Slow down and relax, let the world rush past it will still be there when you arrive.
userW3526602
Posted: 4 September 2018 8:50 AM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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Hi,

Some years ago, clocking 80 in the outside lane of the M4, nose to tail traffic, I passed a Commer camper van (PB?) ... parked hard against the central barrier. A nervour looking man was peering round the front. presumably waiting for a gap in the traffic so he could run across to the hard shoulder. Some chance!

I pulled into the Aust service station, found a police car. The driver said he was not aware of this vehiclre.

Questtion ... when the miles of traffic has been stationary for half an hour, do the regulations allow you to step out of your vehicle to take a leak?

602
userStuartO
Posted: 4 September 2018 9:13 AM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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We've got to the stage of frustration with UK roads that when we need to make a transit journey we do so on a Saturday, leaving early in order to minimise the traffic conflicts - and more often that not head straight for Dover and across the Channel, where it's a different world. I would hate to be of working age and having to drive around the UK.
userlaimeduck
Posted: 4 September 2018 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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I concur with many of the previous observations but just wonder how much of the traffic overload on certain roads is due to everyone being channeled onto these roads by satnavs? Several times I have got off major trunk roads eg A303 onto B roads and had a traffic free journey while people are sitting in queues on the main road. Maybe 15-20 mins longer on paper,  but far quicker overall. Just an observation?
userWasn't Me
Posted: 4 September 2018 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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When I worked for the RAC as a patrol, I once saw a car travelling down the hardshoulder on the M4 in the wrong direction!!

Yes the wrong direction!!!

Needless to say I reported it and the police had joined the motorway, before I had got to the next junction.
userBrock
Posted: 4 September 2018 1:24 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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We motorhomers are not on 'just in time' deliveries/appointments like commercial drivers, many of whom are not allowed to divert from recognised routes. We can choose our time of travelling/route, minimising delays and peak time traffic. And whilst we drive along on near empty roads, we can listen to a podcast/audio book on anger management or to how think ourselves happy.

userBulletguy
Posted: 4 September 2018 2:37 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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Geeco - 2018-09-04 4:07 AM

Earlier this year we spent time in the north of Italy, Slovenia & Croatia by car. The north of Italy is full of speed cameras & not just on the Autostratas that are jammed full of HGV's especially around Milan. The other two were a pleasure in which to drive even if the speed limits were low. We have just booked flights for a UK holiday next year so your comments are not exciting me. I think it will be narrowboats & backroads for us & lots of coastal walks. cheers,

Gary.....good luck is best i can say! God knows what motorhome tourists from Europe visiting UK for the first time must think of us....i doubt they bother returning. The huge amount of average speed cameras (on some sections they are just a few metres apart) litter many motorways here now with speeds down as low as 40 or 50mph......on roads which were designed for 70mph. It's claimed to be there for reasons of 'safety' but in my opinion they have the opposite effect by backing traffic up. It's not uncommon to see someone get 'rear ended'.

Most UK motorists feel they are little more than an excuse for 'cash collecting'.
userBulletguy
Posted: 4 September 2018 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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stevec176 - 2018-09-04 8:47 AM

I don't really know what a smart motorway is other than we lose the hard shoulder. Maybe I'm one of a minority but when in my van I try to cruise at about 50/55 mph, I'm on holiday, and when in a area where average speed cams are I just stick cruise control on. Its not rocket science if you ignore the speed limit don't be surprised to get a ticket. Slow down and relax, let the world rush past it will still be there when you arrive.

I 'cruise around' when i'm on holiday too....but on country roads where i can enjoy the scenery or stop off at a restaurant, take a few photos etc. Motorways were not built for tourists gazing at scenery or taking photos, they were built for quick A to B travel....which you can do in Europe, just not UK.
userBulletguy
Posted: 4 September 2018 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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StuartO - 2018-09-04 9:13 AM

We've got to the stage of frustration with UK roads that when we need to make a transit journey we do so on a Saturday, leaving early in order to minimise the traffic conflicts - and more often that not head straight for Dover and across the Channel, where it's a different world. I would hate to be of working age and having to drive around the UK.

Bib is 'nail on head'. After leaving Dunkerque i think the first cam warning my gps picked up was somewhere in Nederland at 130kph enroute to Germany. I can easily live with that!
userequitable
Posted: 4 September 2018 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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Apparently these so-called 'smart motorways' will all have frequent overhead 'maximum speed limit' displays, so that traffic will be managed in such a way that traffic will generally be kept moving, rather than the GO-STOP-CRAWL-GO-STOP situation we have on standard mororways. There is still a lot of tweaking to be done, it would seem to me!

BUT, it may be the only way to avoid long periods of 'going nowhere' which frequently is the case at present, as a result of some 40-50 million or so vehicles on the roads in our 'small country'.
userEJB
Posted: 4 September 2018 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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Has nobody ever noticed that the continent of Europe and Germany and France in particular are somewhat larger than Britain and vastly larger than England.

Vehicles per mile (or kilometre if you prefer) is the opposite with vastly more vehicles in the UK.

Virtually all of the longest traffic holdups are usually in France and Germany....but the Netherlands do quite well for such a small clean country!
userBulletguy
Posted: 4 September 2018 4:32 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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EJB - 2018-09-04 3:52 PM

Has nobody ever noticed that the continent of Europe and Germany and France in particular are somewhat larger than Britain and vastly larger than England.

Vehicles per mile (or kilometre if you prefer) is the opposite with vastly more vehicles in the UK.

Virtually all of the longest traffic holdups are usually in France and Germany....but the Netherlands do quite well for such a small clean country!


Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion (bib). Both are certainly larger than UK but unlike us are also transit countries with convoys of HGV trucks travelling through 24/7....way more than you'll ever see in UK and from many countries (ever see any Russian or Belarus registered trucks in UK? Nope. Plenty going through Germany though). Also you only need look at the sheer size of Autobahn service areas to see the huge number of trucks parked up.

No idea how many private vehicles may be on all Autobahns but the point is, those that are are not being restricted by draconian measures with average speed cams every few yards.
userphalange
Posted: 4 September 2018 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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Wasn't Me - 2018-09-04 12:20 PM

When I worked for the RAC as a patrol, I once saw a car travelling down the hardshoulder on the M4 in the wrong direction!!

Yes the wrong direction!!!

Needless to say I reported it and the police had joined the motorway, before I had got to the next junction.


still happens even today

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-45381945
usermalc d
Posted: 4 September 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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I was once watching the screens at a motorway control office when we saw a bloke riding along the hard shoulder on a mountain bike alongside the M1.


userdavidmac
Posted: 4 September 2018 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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Hi I must be using the wrong roads at the wrong times.Went up to the north of Holland in June.got to the Antwerp ring at about 7.20 a.m. on the Thursday ,it took 1 hour 20 minutes to travel about 12 miles, returning on the Monday lunchtime, even worse, same slow traffic but temperature was 36c. Further on the traffic around Utrecht was very slow and congested. Never had a clear run around Lille or Brussels. Go near Paris. Rouen or Bordeaux and the roads are slow and congested. If you can steer clear of major cities you can make good time, the problem being all the cities and large towns in the U.K. are close to each other.
Regards David
Monique, living in close proximity of Antwerp. could perhaps enlighten us more on the joys of Kennedy Tunnel and the Antwerp ring
Just realised will be going around Lille at about 4.30 Thursday afternoon, what a joy! This is after negotiating the M1, M25 and M20.

Edited by davidmac 2018-09-04 8:11 PM
userW3526602
Posted: 4 September 2018 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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<<< You would really enjoy the M42 around Birmingham >>>

Hi,

My wife had a tail-lift on a supermarket curtain-sider do a tin-opener job along the length of her SAAB. She phoned me, told me to write down the registration of the lorry she was chasing. She was doing 50 at the time, with the HGV coming up the INSIDE. That was on the M4 ... wet, dark and windy..

She tends to get nervous driving round Birmingham ... 50mph in lane two, with an HGV slowly crreping up the inside, taking several minutes to pass, and only a couple of feet away. There ain't going to be no forgiveness if anything goes wrong.

Maybe HMG (or their Civil Servants) have worked out that it is cheaper to pay for insurance indemnity, than make/keep things safe ... hence unmanned level crossings.

Ahem ... many years ago I stopped the Scotland London express. I didn't see the crossing gate until the last moment ... the red lamp had run out of parafin. The railway police withdrew their NIP. This was shortly before a train hit a huge transformer on a Wynns transporter ... probably early 1960.

602
usermachra
Posted: 4 September 2018 9:38 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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Travelling down to Black Forest from Calais Via Belgium and I have lost count on the amount of roadworks we have been through. Today from Mosel to Freiburg we were directed off the motorway once due to roadworks, and had a 30 mins holdup, and the a bit further on we were stuck for nearly an hour in a set of roadworks that funnelled three lanes into one. And don’t get me started on the convoys of wagons. So not all a bed of roses over on the continent.
useraultymer
Posted: 4 September 2018 10:04 PM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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Are these the convoys of lorries that are kept in the inside lane and banned from truck racing a la UK?
Too often stuck for miles where one wee willy waver tries and often fails to pass another with 1/2 mph difference in speed thereby reducing 2 lanes to none or 3 lanes to one.
Bring on the convoys.
userW3526602
Posted: 5 September 2018 5:47 AM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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<<< After leaving Dunkerque i think the first cam warning my gps picked up was somewhere in Nederland at 130kph enroute to Germany. I can easily live with that! >>>

Hi,

I understood that "zap camera" warning devices were forbidden in France, and Monsieur Plod KNOWS when there is one in your vehicle, even when it is switched off.

602
userW3526602
Posted: 5 September 2018 6:03 AM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 
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<<< Too often stuck for miles where one wee willy waver tries and often fails to pass another with 1/2 mph difference in speed ... >>>

Hi,

I would argue that, while it is the overtaing driver who caused this situation (lack of judgement), only the driver nearest the kerb can safely resolve it.

Yes, the overtaker should, morally, be the one to slow down. But he has no way of knowing whether or not a small vehicle is tucked in behind the truck he is attempting to overtake.

If the overtaken truck eases off by one mile per hour, the situation will resolve itself in about 30 seconds.

On many occasions, I have lifted off the throttle of my 50 year old Land Rover to allow an HGV to complete his pass.

Try driving an old Land Rover towing a car transporter trailer round the A25. 50mph in Lane 1, no problem .... until Lane 1 becomes the exit slip road, and you need to move over to Lane 2, which is full of nose to tail traffic all doing, say, 70mph. Are they going to let you in? Sod it ... get into Lane 2, and stay there.

602
userJohn52
Posted: 5 September 2018 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: Cone Country and average speed cams
 


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W3526602 - 2018-09-05 6:03 AM

<<< Too often stuck for miles where one wee willy waver tries and often fails to pass another with 1/2 mph difference in speed ... >>>

Hi,

I would argue that, while it is the overtaing driver who caused this situation (lack of judgement), only the driver nearest the kerb can safely resolve it.

Yes, the overtaker should, morally, be the one to slow down. But he has no way of knowing whether or not a small vehicle is tucked in behind the truck he is attempting to overtake.

If the overtaken truck eases off by one mile per hour, the situation will resolve itself in about 30 seconds.

On many occasions, I have lifted off the throttle of my 50 year old Land Rover to allow an HGV to complete his pass.

Try driving an old Land Rover towing a car transporter trailer round the A25. 50mph in Lane 1, no problem .... until Lane 1 becomes the exit slip road, and you need to move over to Lane 2, which is full of nose to tail traffic all doing, say, 70mph. Are they going to let you in? Sod it ... get into Lane 2, and stay there.

602


Well I do that and as soon as you slow down the one behind you pulls out as well, each one cutting in so close you hv to slow down some more in an attempt to maintain a safe gap - especially since the one behind is following so close you fear if you have to brake stop suddenly he can't stop.
Police could do more to prosecute for tailgaiting, nfortunately its easier just to enforce speed limits whetherthey are necessary or not.
But perhaps the biggest problem is congestion. The short termism nature of British politics, coupled with the devolution of power to local authorities - a Nimby's charter, has caused under investment in long term projects like road building.
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