Considering a New FIAT Swift 615 read this

[Guest Graham Arnold]

I ordered a brand new Swift Kontiki 615 from a well known supplier at Preston , it came with a Lux pack offered by Fiat , Navigation system , Disc brakes updated chassis etc at £3500 extra Collected the vehicle on 2nd Feb 2005. The supplier was not familiar with the navigation system and had trouble setting it up mainly because Swifts had not supplied a Instruction hand book , also the device itself has as part of it a Cell phone which needed a Sim card holder again not supplied Eventually things seemed to be OK but Two Days later driving down to a site at Telford the navigation system failed completely. Telephone calls to the Supplier , and Swifts and even FIAT all proved unsatisfactory , no one wanted to take ownership of the problem For example called FIAT customer advice line , Yes Sir we can help you , if you tell us what is the problem we will then raise a customer number and will get back to you approx 10 - 12 days time , Oh sorry Sir that is procedure , I am still waiting nearly 3 week time . Meantime the advice was , you have a listing of dealers maybe you would like to phone them yourself Eventually found a dealer 50 miles from my home who knew something about the system , attended their garage (16th Feb 2005 ) The diagnosed I need a new Navigation unit ,and was led to believe that one would be ordered ASAP Apparently life is NOT a straight forward as that , as the garage then needed full Fiat Authorization to order the parts and for what ever reason I was informed today that this authorization has NOT yet been given , and the garage do not know when Fiat will ever approve the parts ?? The other issue is the GPS software , the paper work that came with the new vehicle states I can have a FREE up date , so I contacted the software company , to find that the software I was given by Swift & Fiat on a brand new vehicle was in fact dated 2002 Yes I have been given 3 years old software ,and that I would have to wait for my FREE update for 3-4 months . The cost to buy software was £90 for UK only and £180 if one was daft enough to get European CDs Meanwhile I had finally attracted the attention of Swift and they were going through the motion of trying to help BUT not helping if you know what I mean , for example I told their Customer relations man called Gary Rawlings that the rear speaker in the van do not work , he has given me the verbal text of where these cable route etc and asked me to look at it ? , I have told him about the GPS unit & CD issues but he seems to ignore them Meanwhile I had written to two managers at Swifts on the 12th Feb but to date no assistance in sorting out the problems , their Customer relations man phone dme but he really only told me that in his opinion it was FIAT problem not theirs ?? The supplier/dealer , well he although they seem nice people are technically out of there depth , FIAT well I would not buy another one , Swift well really think twice good product poor service and in the end when things go wrong you need help ASAP Is it not time some firm action was taken by the main supplier of this unit and let me have what I paid for as soon as possible , this is surely a strong lesson to anyone considering a unit like mine

[Guest Mike]

Motorhome forums are littered with warranty problems but it is noticable how many experience problems with Fiat. For that reason I would never buy one.

[Guest Clive]

I concur

[Guest peter]

Unfortunately, this is a common occurence in the motorhome construction profession and i can't help but harp back to the days of the great (?) british motorcycle industry who never listened to the complaints etc about build quality and customer service and eventually went to the wall, Ignoring feedback from customers and riding on the wave of popularity, the japs soon put paid to that. Similar things will happen in motorhome circles unless they buck their ideas up and listen to their customers and admit responsibilities (convertor and base vehicle manufacturers) instead of cashing in on the current wave of motorhome popularity while it lasts. I look forward to the day that the Japanese break into the market with a decent product and service. Might shake up a few lacksadazical british and european companies.

[Guest Graham]

I agree FIat can be a pain I would like to avoid them but they do make a good engine even if the ir service is really poor , no its worse than poor Graham

[Guest Clive]

Cam belts !

[Guest Mike]

Can Belts Yes but most disgraceful of all are their gearboxes. Most people I have spoken to have problems with 5th gear but Fiat deny there is a design fault.

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Over the years we've bought 11 new cars, made by Toyota, Mitsubishi or VW - manufacturers with a good reputation for build quality - and all these vehicles proved reliable, in that they always got us from A to B. But only 4 of them were fault-free at hand-over and, even though we had main dealers for all 3 makes virtually on our doorstep, rectification was sometimes far from straightforward. (In fact one, a Golf GTi, despite repeated visits to the supplier was never satisfactorily fixed and I eventually got so fed up with its bloody-mindedness that I sold it.) New caravans are widely recognised as being prone to delivery faults. Construction methods are manual-labour intensive and, while 'hand crafting' may be fine for furniture or bespoke tailoring, it's much less desirable where building vehicles is involved. Now, if one accepts from my car-buying experiences there's a good chance a reputable car-maker can't produce a 100% fault-free product and that main dealers won't pick up these faults, and if one also accepts that caravan-makers/dealers aren't any different, what's the statistical chance of one's new motorcaravan (the name says it all) not having initial teething troubles? Near enough 0%, I'd say. Keeping this in mind may dampen one's enthusiasm for new motorhome buying, but, if faults do occur, at least you won't be surprised! Graham: I presume you live a long way from Preston as, otherwise, I'm sure you would be on the supplier's doorstep daily until your navigation-system and loud-speaker problems were resolved. Long-distance motorhome buying may be unavoidable, but it has to be recognised it has potential dangers regarding problem resolution. Whether the nav-system failure is down to Fiat or Swift is immaterial, under UK law it's the responsibility of the Preston supplier to get your Kon-Tiki sorted out to your satisfaction. At present you appear to be the only one being proactive, whereas it should be the supplier acting on your behalf and handling the bureaucracy of who is 'to blame' and who fixes the faults. "Nice people" or not, "out of their depth" or not, it's still the Preston supplier's responsibility to deliver goods that work. I'm not sure exactly what financial reparation your last sentence refers to, but there's no doubt in my mind that you should be taking a very firm line with the supplier. As a navigation system is an expensive option (and of absolutely no value when broken) it seems to me you might be justified in rejecting the complete vehicle if the supplier can't arrange for the nav-system to be fixed within a reasonable time-frame. If you haven't done it already, it would be worth you discussing your rights with the CAB and your nearest Trading Standards office. One thing's certain, if you don't put pressure on the supplier to sort your problems out quickly, nobody else will.

[Guest Graham]

dear Derek I live approx 80 miles fromPreston , and apart from this distance stopping me camp outside until its fixed I really doubt that they have the Tech know how to fix ,so while giving them grief etc it wouldn;t help me too much I phoned Fiat garage today ,they have now permission to order the parts ,when it will be with them they do not know , frankly I suspect its the GPS attena ,they don;t but heyI have ablinking great Luton over the top surely that will mess with the signal , no comment from garage Hey its march the first white rabits x 3 always gave me luck ( need it ) Graham

[Guest Docted]

Graham he fact that you do not have faith in the dealer and will not return them will count against you if you do try at some stage to reject the vehicle. The best way forward at this stage is to write to the supplying dealer listing all the faults and the actions you have taken to date. Tell them the problems are theirs and give them a tiemtable of when you expect the faults to be cleared completely.If they cannot meet this timetable the vehicle will be returned to them and you will be looking for a complete refund of all monies paid. Additionally that it is their responsibility to come and collect and return the vehicle to you for repair work of this nature to be carried out. These are your rights by going to other dealers you are eating away at them because your supplier will say that any faults were caused by these other dealers giving them an easy way out and leaving you to do all the running about. At present your vehicle is not "fit for the purpose intended" and you have the right to refund BUT your contract is with the supplier nobody else; NOT Swift and NOT Fiat. Good luck Docted

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

I agree with Docted. Even though you believe the Preston supplier is clueless about the nav-system fault (and who would argue) it's imperative that you keep them 'in the loop'. The cost of problem resolution (time, effort, training, etc.) will have been factored into their profit margin on your Kon-Tiki and I don't see why they shouldn't work for their money. Many motorhome tales of woe seem to stem from buyer and supplier not communicating (in writing) sufficiently at the onset of problems. If the worst comes to the worst, and litigation becomes necessary, a proper file of letters will provide valuable evidence on behalf of an aggrieved purchaser. (MMM readers may recall the horror-story some months back of an RV buyer being sold an over-width vehicle and the disastrous financial effect on him when a court found in the supplier's favour.)

[Guest David Powell]

Graham...I know what you are going through, enough to give anyone a nervous breakdown. I have had the same thing with a new Swift four years ago. A family owned 'van but in my name as I get the best insurance cover. A long list of build problems, but Swift did not want to know, just sent me a 'Dear Sir' letter telling me how good they are, and yes they do get a P.D.I.[if they do, faults are not rectified] Over the course of a year the dealer put everything more or less right, I will not mention their name as their opinion of Swift was lower than mine. One of their staff told me that if I watch Swifts being built I would never buy one. The dealers technical know how was nothing to write home about but they kept trying. Before a year was up the upholstery started to collapse, but the dealer could not deal with that. I wrote to Swift, and again they would have nothing to do with it, and told me it was the responsibility of the upholstery suppliers, not Swift. The Swift is kept in my drive well hidden behind my old well built Holdsworth Ranger coach built...As for Fiats? enough said already. It is a shameful thing that buyers get put through all this hassle, all that stress is no good for the health! Peter...you have struck the right cord when you suggested the Japanese should get in on the base vehicle market. When we toured New Zealand for a couple of months,we hired a CI on a Mazda 6 cylinder 3 Ltr. with exhaust brakes for going down the steep passes, and twin wheels on the back axle, rear wheel drive, smooth and relaxing to drive, a really magnificent base vehicle for a motor caravan.

[Guest David Powell]

Clive...I counldn't help but notice your bold statement...CAM BELT...Tell me, why does a Fiat commercial vehicle need an electronic cam belt adjuster? which when it goes wrong the vehicle has to be conveyed to the Fiat main depot to get fixed? After all is said and done, it is not a racing car where every last bit of urge counts, it could well have been a builders truck.

[Guest Dave]

Buy German, you know it makes sense.

[Guest David]

Hi Guys, Did I hear a rumour that a well known Japanese car manufacturer at Swindon is thinking of going into Motorhome production, possibly using the old GWR works? or is this wishfull thinking!! Graham you should have been in touch with the Preston dealer first, stating the sales of goods act, that usualy gets them moving especially as its going to cost them money and more bad publicity. David

[Guest Graham]

Dear One & All Thanks for you support and advice , but taking Davids point further , apart from forums like this one which highlight problems between ourselves where would one get "them" the publicity they richly deserve, if you get my meaning Graham

[Guest Peter Lawton-Harris]

Why the hell didn't you just use the Trading Standards Dept. It's your service , you PAY for it.It costs nowt to use. I have used them to solve problems. Cheaper than thieving solicitors and much more effective.