Considering a motorhome to also regularly work in for a couple

[v23509l]

Hello all,

 

A short introduction: me and my spouse have never owned a motorhome/van nor do we have experience with such life. We are both in our late 30s. We may now be allowed to work remotely full time for 3-5 months per year and we are considering getting a small motorhome/van and touring Europe during that time, at first in Summer and late Spring or early Autumn only. We both reside in Germany. We will first rent to see if this way of life is appealing to us, and if yes, this is what we had in mind in terms of buying:

 

- Our budget is good, we are mostly interested in quality.

- We are not very tall, I am taller at 1,80 m.

- We need to have a toilet, while a shower would be very very welcome.

- We need only 2 passenger seats.

- We need a proper bed for two (i.e. not separate beds, and with a real single mattress).

- We don't need anything huge. It needs to be something that allows us freedom to e.g. manoeuvre Europe's roads and e.g. easy access to Finland lakesides.

- It needs to be up to 3,5t, 6,5m

- We don't need an alcoven (as mentioned, only a bed for two).

- There must be an oven, a fridge as large as possible, possibly a microwave but not an absolute must.

- If there is need to choose, garage space is more important than lounge space. If the weather is nice, we will be outside, otherwise we have the bed.

- There needs to be good air-conditiong and heating (I hate the cold, my wife hates the heat :D).

- There needs to be a good degree of autonomy. Ideally, up to 5 days of running the IT equipment below, but we can live with less as well. Hence, solar panels are an option for us.

- Here comes the difficulty: I mentioned that we will be working during this time, 5 days a week. We absolutely need a configuration that allows us to work properly. The issue is, while we may work on our laptops only 8h per day, we would really really welcome the possibility to install and run two monitors. Nothing huge, 21'' would be enough. Now, I haven't really seen something like this in any photos or videos I've seen. The closest I came is this DIY:

 

However, I have never seen a similar serial version.

 

So, my questions:

1. Any proposals, ideas, opinions on what to buy, considering the above? I assume it is closer to a smaller motorhome than to a campervan, but you will know better. We have excluded a caravan, we think it would be too cumbersome.

2. Any proposals for complementary sources of information, like other forums or big Facebook groups of motorhome enthusiasts in Europe?

3. In terms of the above, what do you think of this model: https://www.adria-mobil.com/vans/twin-sports? Obviously, as pretty much any serial configuration I've seen, it has 4 seats and a table in-between, so the monitors would need to placed on the table.

 

Thank you all for reading and your help!

[stevec176]

Many many questions and there are numerous answers and none will give you a definite answer. I would suggest that as you've never had a van before that you go to one of the many shows so that you can check out the numerous layouts. Once you decide on the layout then hirer something similar, living in a metal box is not for everyone so be sure before parting with a lot of money. Don't rush into it, take a little time and decide what you want and need. Good luck.

[v23509l]

Hello,

 

We will go to Dusseldorf, and we will rent before, so quite soon. But if we do like it, we need to come to Dusseldorf prepared. Our budget is roughly up to 65 000 euros.

 

It would really help to get to know things, the more, the better. Thank you again for all your help, tips, etc.

[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums.

 

As you know what you need, I suggest you start by identifying German companies that specialise in ‘bespoke’ motorhome conversions. This information should be available from “Promobil” magazine, and there’s an example here

 

https://www.diereisemobil-manufaktur.de/

 

There will be plenty of off-the-shelf motorhomes that meet most of the following requirements

 

- We need to have a toilet, while a shower would be very very welcome.

- We need only 2 passenger seats.

- We need a proper bed for two (i.e. not separate beds, and with a real single mattress).

- We don't need anything huge. It needs to be something that allows us freedom to e.g. manoeuvre Europe's roads and e.g. easy access to Finland lakesides.

- It needs to be up to 3,5t, 6,5m

- We don't need an alcoven (as mentioned, only a bed for two).

- There must be an oven, a fridge as large as possible, possibly a microwave but not an absolute must.

- If there is need to choose, garage space is more important than lounge space. If the weather is nice, we will be outside, otherwise we have the bed.

 

Continental European-built motorhomes tend not to have an oven as standard, but it’s often an option. Air-con that can be used while the vehicle is static is rarely standard, but could be retro-fitted, as could a microwave. Good heating should not be a problem.

 

The difficulty comes when full-time living for 3 to 5 months and an onboard office are to be combined in a 6.5m-long vehicle. My own 2015 Rapido 640F model (6.49m in length and 3500kg weight) meets most of the above criteria, and an oven, air-con and microwave could be retro-fitted if I so chose. But major internal layout and communications/electrical equipment changes would be required regarding the ‘office’ (and we couldn’t tolerate the cramped working/living conditions long-term).

 

If a 6.5m/3500kg motorhome is an absolute ‘must have’, I believe you’d need to commission the vehicle and that would not be a cheap approach.

[v23509l]

Hello,

 

I mentioned that 2 seats are enough for us, but you are correct, I was not able to find a configuration with 2 seats that allows office space and my other requirements.

 

For the office space, we only need a comfortable chair, place to put a monitor, keyboard, and power to run it. We don't need that much space.

 

The Adria model I mentioned, that seems to me the closest we will get to what we need. And in fact, it ticks all the boxes, the only thing to explore is how working on the extended table where one is sitting on the front right seat, and the other on the back seat, works. It seems that there should be plenty of space for IT, so the question is really on the ergonomics.

 

Taking also that Adria, it seems that the optional roof solar battery gives 120W. This I could use help with. What does this translate into, what can you run with that kind of power, on average in Summer, including aircon? Also, does it make more sense to have installed or mobile solar cells? For instance, it we are able to park the van in the shade.

 

You really think it will be too small to work for 3 months? Even when combined with working outdoors in case of nice weather?

[colin]

Just be aware that trying to live and work in a space the size of a bathroom is not always that easy.

We have a van with similar layout to the Adria, If I'm using MS Teams gf goes for a walk, as this is only once every two weeks and for only 1hr to 1hr 30mins at a time it's ok, but I would have misgivings as to work for longer in the front dinette more often, especially if the other person decides to make drinks or food. And if you are both working it might not be ideal. Same with that self build, if one wants to go to toilet or make food and/or drink it might be disruptive.

Personally I'd be looking more at something with the layout of WildAx Aurora where you can keep office and living separate.

https://wildaxmotorhomes.com/models/aurora-xl-range/

 

[v23509l]

You mean the Aurora configuration with a foldable bed? It doesn't work for us as we want a real bed.

 

I am not really worried about interruptions as we have no meetings at all in our work, just typing. I am only worried about ergonomics seating on passenger seats 8h a day. Then again, how are lounge seats better for that?

 

For Aurora, you mean the configuration where the bed turns into a lounge? It doesn't work for us as we want a fixed real bed.

 

Good thing about our job is that there are almost no calls, it's mostly typing. I am therefore not worried about interruptions we could cause each other, rather to how ergonomic seating 6-8 hours a day would be. For vans with lounges like Aurora, I still see possible issues with ergonomics as the lounge seats don't really look like proper office chairs, same thing being with passenger seats. But of course, office seats I presume we cannot hope for.

 

(Bold text copied over from untitled posting that I’ve now deleted - Derek Uzzell)

[BruceM]

On the issue of electrical power consumption:

 

You mentioned the need for aircon?

 

I assume you’ll be staying at campsites then? If not then I suggest you forget the aircon and use the traditional methods of staying cool. Aircon uses a lot of electrical energy so will need 240v EHU. Apparently it can also be noisy according to some forum reports.

 

The other issue that needs careful thought is how you will provide power to your computer equipment. I’m assuming a couple of laptops and two stand alone screens?

 

Unless you intend to be using 240v EHU then if possible I’d aim to operate on DC only, ie a DC to DC converter for both your laptops and screens – eg 12v DC to 18.9v DC for the laptops. 12V DC to 240V AC inverters are inefficient so in a power hungry off grid environment they are best avoided.

 

I think that to assist your power decision making it would be a good idea to identify the electrical office equipment you intend to operate (mobs, PCs, screens. printer?) and add up their power usage in watts. Based on that figure you’ll be able to start estimating your solar and battery requirements, no doubt with some help from some of our electrical expert forum members.

[v23509l]

We would need autonomy. If it's between being able to be outside a campsite for 5 days and aircon, we choose the former.

 

That is great info for power. Unfortunately, I know very little of the subject. This is what I can think of:

2 office monitors 21'', I can buy ones with best power performance, 8h per day 5 days a week

1 constant connection via a mobile network for internet. Nothing extraordinary fast, 720p YT videos is more than fine, stability is more important than speed. 25GB per month could be more than enough.

2 mobile phones, sporadic use.

2 private laptops, closer to ultrabooks than large, sporadic use when not working

2 keyboards, 2 mouse

 

That is it. We don't necessarily need a tv either.

 

Very roughly, and just to have an idea, what wattage use could we be looking at? It would help me with bearings.

 

 

[colin]

For the Adria to work with two 21" monitors and keyboards/mice you will need to sit opposite each other, even then you will find the standard table very tight, this will be common to pretty much all these types of layouts. To enable use of both driver and passenger seats you would need to consider a purpose made table and also a foot rest as there is a step.

The alternatives then are a coachbuilt or A class (some of) which offer larger dinette/lounge and flat floor, we are considering a Cathago Compactline 143, it is similar layout, but 7m long, if you are intending carrying bikes you will find it is no longer as you can carry them inside instead of on a rack at rear, it offers a bigger table and the dinette/lounge gives the impression of being considerably larger, although in reality it's only a little larger.

 

[v23509l]

For Adria, with the serial table, I think the only way of sitting is extending the table and sitting diagonally across. One person sits in the back next to the wall and has a keyboard, mouse, monitor on the fixed part of the table, for the second person the monitor is placed on the outermost part of the fixed part of the table, and the keyboard and mouse on the extended part of the table.

 

Of course, a purpose built table is definitely an option. I just don't have an idea how it would look like. But I am more thinking what will it be like to sit in passenger seats for such a long time. But this is an issue with all vans of up to 7m as far as I can see.

 

I would try to keep up to 6,5m, if possible. I am thinking that we will for sure not be working inside all the time. We can also sit outside and work sometimes there, depending on the weather. I presume monitor power coild be an issue, though.

[curdle]

If you bought a German Alphatronics smart TV, you can do away with one monitor and with screen size up to 32 inch you would have no problem viewing from across the table. They come with the keyboard.

[v23509l]

curdle - 2021-07-09 4:01 PM

 

If you bought a German Alphatronics smart TV, you can do away with one monitor and with screen size up to 32 inch you would have no problem viewing from across the table. They come with the keyboard.

 

I will have it mind.

[BruceM]

v23509l - 2021-07-09 3:08 PM

Very roughly, and just to have an idea, what wattage use could we be looking at? It would help me with bearings.

 

 

I think you probably need to do some internet window shopping and pull up a specs of your ideal equipment.

 

A quick glance shows that HD 22” monitors are cheap enough, under £100 delivered, and some operate at about 14v DC consuming about 16W.

 

My laptop runs at 19V DC, 3.42A so that’s about 65W.

 

Mobs use a negligible amount of power.

 

Heating on the other hand is power hungry. Mine is blown air and has an 1.5A consumption when running on full so in my case that’s about 18W

 

Worse case scenario is in the winter with maximum use of heating and lighting.

 

No doubt one of our experienced electrical aficionados will be along sometime today to change all that into a realistic total power supply requirement – anything I come up with would be an unreliable estimation - but I’ll guess anyway – 180W x 8 hours per day, so about 1.5KW per day. Someone will turn that number if it’s correct into a battery requirement. I think you may be heading in the direction of lithium and a lot of solar though.

[v23509l]

Thanks a lot. I am willing to spend for lithium.

 

As for solar, again I refer to Adria, but only because I know more of it than other model, it is supposed to support 120 W roof solar. So this is not enough, even in Summer? If not, I am willing to consider more roof solar and forego the roof bed in Adria, or as a second best option mobile solar panels.

[curdle]

I suggest you take a look at the video on the Hymer smart battery system at Hymer.com. Available as an option on all Hymer models with a potential 9.8 days off-grid. I am sure other makes are increasingly offering similar such systems but the video shows what is possible.

[colin]

v23509l - 2021-07-09 4:08 PM

 

Thanks a lot. I am willing to spend for lithium.

 

As for solar, again I refer to Adria, but only because I know more of it than other model, it is supposed to support 120 W roof solar. So this is not enough, even in Summer? If not, I am willing to consider more roof solar and forego the roof bed in Adria, or as a second best option mobile solar panels.

It's spring/autumn when you might need more solar, unless there's any overriding reason to have the lift up roof I'd ditch it in favour of fixed roof, this will probably give room for more solar and a bit more payload.

[spirou]

Fridge, heating, computers & screens etc. means you won't have any other realistic options but a substantial lithium bank and a roof full of solar panels and even that will be a stretch on cloudy/rainy days in spring/autumn. Forget A/C, Maxxfan is your only option. Even if you find a roughly suitable factory model I don't see how you could reasonably do all you want without substantial mods to sort out electrics and comfortable office space.

 

600W of solar panels is probably a good goal required to run everything reasonably comfortably all year round but fitting that many on the roof is going to be a challenge. I would estimate somewhere between 50 and 100Ah that will need to be replaced daily so 200Ah of lithium probably the minimum to have any autonomy. Fitting more is again a challenge.

 

You can use one of the many consumption calculators and input the number of hours you expect your gear needs to work. Look at power supplies and tech specs to figure out individual power requirements.

 

 

[v23509l]

I will check Hymer.

 

Agreed, roof bed is not a must.

 

Yes, we will need to calculate carefully when the time comes. What about gas? Couldn't that replace some electricity need?

[curdle]

I don't imagine gas will make any difference. For heating, you need to consider Swedish Alde. Reason being that they have a heat exchanger that captures engine heat whilst you drive and thus requires no further gas consumption to deliver piping hot water when you stop.

[v23509l]

Gas for the fridge at least?

[Derek Uzzell]

A ‘gas free’ motorhome is a practical proposition nowadays using a compressor fridge, a diesel-fuelled hob and diesel-fuelled heating.

 

However, a major difficulty (as Spirou has highlighted) is that - if you chose a compact-size off-the-peg new motorhome within your €65K budget - and then had it modified to cope with your electricity demands, the exercise would be challenging and expensive. And if you opted for the ‘bespoke design’ route - where you could choose the interior layout to optimise the living/sleeping/working combination - the cost would be even higher.

 

You said in your initial enquiry “We don’t need anything huge”, but to successfully (and comfortably) work and live full-time for 3-5 months per year I believe you’ll need a motohome significantly longer than 6.5m. That may well translate to a weight above 3500kg which (given the late-30s age of you and you wife) could have driving-licence implications.

[v23509l]

Correct. Our licence does not cover larger motorhomes, and we do not plan to take the tests to extend its validity to drive larger vehicles. That is a hard limit.

[vindiboy]

An Honda 2000 watt Generator could solve your power problems BUT we all hate generators and you would need Petrol or Gas to power one, they can be fitted inboard too. My Chausson is 6-7 metres long 3,5 tonnes , right hand drive with continental habitation door. Fixed double bed with large storage under I have 2 solar panels roof fixed 2 x120 amp hour leisure batteries large separate shower toilet ,oven [ never used ] grill , 3 burner gas hob, dinette table for two, the front seats swivel to face the table, a settee type seat forms another double bed but we have never used that , 2 people sitting at the table could easily work on two lap tops , monitor screens could also be wall mounted on brackets , my heating and hot water is diesel fired from the main tank, i have 2x 11kg refillable gas bottles 130 litre fresh water tank. We have a large tall fridge freezer which runs on Gas Mains and 12 volt too,

My van is Fiat based 2,8 JTD engine and is 16 years old, we wild camp in Europe [ or did before Brexit ] for about 5-6 month trips off grid all the time, We have no TV or internet connection except on our phones but rarely use it , SO there are vans out there that fit your spec and you do not need to pay the earth for them our van is also complete with many storage lockers and a large wardrobe for clothing storage and also all the mundane crockery, pots and pans etc you need for a comfortable life on our travels.

[BruceM]

v23509l - 2021-07-09 10:02 PM

 

Gas for the fridge at least?

Yes – gas is good if you’re living off grid.

 

I’d suggest that like us you have a two bottle refillable system so when you run low you can just fill up at an LPG filling station – there are plenty on the continent and many in the UK (eg some Morrisons).

 

Gas for heating will be essential.

 

The standard motorhome fridge is likely to be a three way absorption fridge – brilliant devices. The fridge will operate on 12v from the vehicle alternator when driving, and when stationary either gas or 240v if on EHU. Gas use is negligible.

 

As I see it, your two big issue are internal layout/space and electrical power. I suspect your electrical issue is resolvable with the use of lithium, plenty of solar and the acceptance that periodically you’ll need to plug into EHU to get a full charge top up. You might even consider a portable petrol etc 240v generator to provide a top up facility. However they are generally frowned upon by other motorhomers due to the noise they make although if you’re off grid and on your own it might provide a fallback.

 

We have an older A Class, just over 6m long and about 2.55m wide and 3m high. We could comfortably live in the van for extended periods as long as we got out a lot. We mostly motorhome off-grid. I’m not sure that we could comfortably carry out desk based work in the van seven hours a day five days a week without ergonomic seating. And I suspect that if you want a separate office area (good idea) you’ll need a longer van unless of course you could set up something clever with the front seats – maybe a custom made removable construction that lays across the dash board to support keyboard and screens so that the cab area becomes a dedicated office whilst stationary??