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DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
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userFrisby
Posted: 27 December 2018 5:53 PM
Subject: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Help, advice?

Leasure battery died.
Replaced leasure battery and engine battery for fully charged new ones same size/brand.
DT220 panel displays 12V Off.
Panel will not switch on.
Left EHU connected for 12 hrs on hope it would sort itself out but to no avail.
Used emergency bridging connector in ELB 220 Electrobox to at least prove DC system does work on some level though without water system as expected.
Checked all fuses.

Purchased Motorhome three years ago second hand (8yrs old). All has been fine until now including a discharged leasure battery in the past which I replaced with no problems to the DT 220 Panel.

Any ideas?
useraandncaravan
Posted: 27 December 2018 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Location: Conwy, North Wales


If the Elektroblock EBL powers up with the Bridge connector installed but the DT220 won't power it up, then the most likely scenario is that the EBL controller electronics have been 'spiked', usually by reverse polarity when the battery was swapped?

Have a look at the Schaudt page as it covers some basic fault finding in the section about re-installing an Elektroblock EBL unit.

The EBL 220 will most likely need repair but the DT220 normally survives unscathed.

.


.


Edited by aandncaravan 2018-12-27 9:09 PM
userplwsm2000
Posted: 28 December 2018 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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I would double check that the battery sense wire and its 2Amp fuse have not been disturbed when the battery was swapped. This is a relatively small wire (1.5mm) from the battery + going to a separate (2A) fuse and then to the EBL (BL12 pin 3 on a EBL220). If the DT220 "senses" that the battery voltage is below 11V, it will not switch on the EBL relay.

You could also try to completely close down the system by pressing and holding the "Battery" button for 10 seconds, and then switch it back on again by pressing and holding the "12V" button for 5 seconds.
The display should light up and then go blank. When restarting, it should light up again.You would need to reset the time/date. It should also reset the charge state to 50%?


userFrisby
Posted: 28 December 2018 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Thanks for advice.
I doub5 I “Spiked” the power as I was extremely careful but it is of course a possibility.
userFrisby
Posted: 28 December 2018 6:11 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Hi “Plswm 2000”.

Thanks for advice.

Strangely, the “Battery sensing wire” does indeed connect to BL12 Pin 3 of my ELB220. It does NOT however connect directly to the Battery but into some other connection box under seat with no fuse visible.

There are ONLY heavy duty cables to both leasure and engine battery.

(Motorhome did have some electrical modifications done by previous owners including moving the EHU location presumably to suite Spain where it was lived in for 8 yrs as a static home).

Tried your DT panel suggestion. Pressing battery icon for 10 seconds did shut system down but holding DC ON icon does not restore power but remains blank. (Resets itself some hours later to “DC OFF page).

I’m not an electrician so I guess I’ll have to find a local “Techy” to trouble shoot / Replace Electroblok or whatever.

Cheers.


useraandncaravan
Posted: 28 December 2018 10:35 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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We repair the Elektroblock and carry exchange rebuilt units.
userplwsm2000
Posted: 29 December 2018 10:23 AM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Location: Somerset. Frankia i640SD


Frisby - 2018-12-28 6:11 PM

Hi “Plswm 2000”.

Thanks for advice.

Strangely, the “Battery sensing wire” does indeed connect to BL12 Pin 3 of my ELB220. It does NOT however connect directly to the Battery but into some other connection box under seat with no fuse visible.

There are ONLY heavy duty cables to both leasure and engine battery.

(Motorhome did have some electrical modifications done by previous owners including moving the EHU location presumably to suite Spain where it was lived in for 8 yrs as a static home).

Tried your DT panel suggestion. Pressing battery icon for 10 seconds did shut system down but holding DC ON icon does not restore power but remains blank. (Resets itself some hours later to “DC OFF page).

I’m not an electrician so I guess I’ll have to find a local “Techy” to trouble shoot / Replace Electroblok or whatever.

Cheers.



Did you measure the voltage on BL12 pin 3 or how else did you know it is the battery sense wire? If you measured it, was the voltage above 11V?

The battery sense wire should be connected as close to the battery terminal as possible for best accuracy. Any current flowing in this wire will produce a voltage drop in the wire so the display will read lower than the real battery voltage. Although not best practise, it should still give a reasonable indication of battery voltage if it is connected to the other end of the thick wire (depending on the wire guage, length and how much current is flowing).

It really must have a small fuse though close to the junction with the thick wire otherwise there is a high risk of an electrical fire and/or serious damage to the wiring and EBL if it gets short circuited.I would strongly recommend that you get a fuse fitted if it does not already have one inside your connecting box.

There is a possibility that a missing sense wire is the reason why your EBL does not switch on again straight away. I guess there could be some leakage current that gradually raises the sense voltage just enough for the "12V off" indicator to show but not enough to fully switch on. If you have a voltmeter, I would check the battery voltage is present on BL12 pin 3 before getting a techy in. If you have to do this, make sure he/she is familiar with Motorhome installations and Schaudt equipment.
userFrisby
Posted: 29 December 2018 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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I haven’t measured the Voltage from this B12 pin 3. I just noticed there is indeed a 1.5mm dia brown wire connected there and coming from some other junction box behind ELB.

I’m using the vehicle at present as a bus to visit family in England as it’s the easiest way to transport 3 kids, bikes etc but when I get back home to Scotland I’m going to have to remove pax seat and have a good look and sort this mess out before camping again.

It did get struck by lightening in central France last summer but seemed fine and with no problems until I let battery discharge.

When I purchased the Dethleffs three years ago it was being repaired and revamped by dealers in Perth Scotland. They mentioned then that they had unessasarily replaced DT Panel as they thought in error that it was faulty amongst over electrical problems vehicle had at time.

Previous owner had basically just parked up and lived in it in Spain for 8 yrs I understand and during that time had had EHU moved as well as other electrical modifications.

Fun and games.

Thanks for help and info.
userFrisby
Posted: 29 December 2018 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Thanks for info.
Might dig old ELB out and replace for trouble shooting.
Strange that battery sensing wire is not going direct to battery.
Going to have to lift out seat to see what’s going on and where the sensing wire fuse might be
Be.
userAlanb
Posted: 29 December 2018 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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In addition to checking the connection from the positive terminal of the habitation battery to pin 3 of BL12, it would be wise to also check the negative connection to pin 2, and at the battery.

May I refer you to the penultimate post on trialsrider's recent thread, "Sargent E160 not switching on".

Alan

userFrisby
Posted: 29 December 2018 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Thanks Alan,

I’ve now removed the seat to see where the wire from B3 pin 12 is dissapearing to. It threads under the ELB and straight into a wiring loom with no fuse visible. Strange. I doubt the ELB etc has been messed with since vehicle construction since the cap screws holding seat in place were very tight.

Strange that there is no “sensing wire” direct to leasure battery and absolutely no sign of any detached wire or indeed any wires other than heavy duty battery leads in the Lesure battery compartment.
Stranger still is that I’ve had no problems with ELB or DT220 since purchase of vehicle 3 yrs ago second hand and indeed since replacing lesure battery previously.

During a habitation check two years ago the battery was placed in a lidded box by the servicing agents as battery had previously been free standing under bench seat since I purchased vehicle but I can’t imagine they would have removed and disgarded a sensing wire in that process.

Need to buy a volt meter now and see if there is any current in the wire to B3 pin 2.
And worryingly where is the 2amp fuse or is there even one.

Thanks for info Alan.

Simon.
userjak
Posted: 30 December 2018 11:14 AM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Simon, I had a very similar problem with a 9 year old Dethleff where I had a replacement liesure battery fitted in France and later in the year the DT 220 panel failed. You may have seen the thread in this forum - https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/12V-Failure-Elektroblock-ET220-Schaudts-DT220-problems-/48926/#M559648

The symptoms you describe are similar to what I experienced. In the end I determined it was the panel that failed. Alan is the best UK contact I am aware of and he is incredibly knowledgable and very competitive on price. He was unable to address the problem with my unit which I returned to Schaudt who refurbished it and returned it in a matter of weeks at a total cost of about £150.

The unit in my van is above the habitation door and is easy to remove. If the screen is totally dead you should be able to check whether their is power getting to it via the contacts on the rear of the unit. Otto in Schaudts is helpful and very efficient in the Germanic manner.

Trust you manage to resolve your problem.



userFrisby
Posted: 30 December 2018 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Hi Jak,

Thanks for your input.

It’s very strange as the DT panel does seem to be “Alive”. It stays on “12V OFF page and “Charge”.
If I charge campervan the Charge command goes away for a while but other than that it is dead.

Further to a learning curve from helpful people on this forum and looking at wiring diagrams I am also now mystified as to the fact that there is no direct “Battery Sensing wire” from battery to ELB.

Does your Dethleffs have a direct wire from positive on lesure battery to the ELB Jac?

I lifted pax seat out last night to try to follow where alledged sensing wire (1.5mm brown) from ELB dissapeared to in hope of locating a suspect 2amp fuse but said wire dissapeared into a wiring loom which shoots under floor toward opposite side of van somewhere.

In any case van was fine since purchase three years ago however it is wired.

I’m going to replace the brand new lesure battery as it appears to not be holding its charge properly so just perhaps the DT panel is not malfunctioning after all.

There after I’ll have to go down the route you took Jac.

I’m wondering whether to just override the panel entirely with a bridging wire on ELB like the emergency one provided but allowing water system to work too and just having a simple “Master Switch”.

My previous Motorhome was 16 yrs old and never had any of these problems or stress. Just a master switch and a volt meter. That’s progress I guess!



userjak
Posted: 31 December 2018 9:14 AM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Simon, I am flitting around with a number of projects at present moment so I am unabe to respond very quickly, Your problems seem somewhat similar to mine. This is an extract of an email I sent Udo Lang at Schaudt:
My motorhome has been parked up over winter and as usual I disconnected the system as recommended by Schaudt's in their instruction leaflet such that the panel closes down and everything except for the anti frost is isolated. The 2 year old Exide 100Ah battery was fully charged when the motorhome was parked up for 12 weeks and when I returned and tried to re-activate the system the panel lit up with the warning

Er......1
Defect

I attempted to press the panel buttons to get further information but all I got was the 12v Off sign with the outline of the motorhome sign and letters CHARGE underneath. I was booked into a campsite at London so I drove 150 miles there and hooked up but found I had no 12v supply and the above warning signs were still there. I eventually used the emergency jumper set unplugging BL10 and BL13. We stayed on hookup for 5 days the returned to Wales. I checked the battery 4 days after our return with a multimeter and the battery reading was 12.81 volts so the battery is OK.

So apart from the' warning Er......1 Defect' the sequence of events seems somewhat similar. The panel was in effect dead and after briefly flashing the defect warning it stayed in the manner/state you describe.

My battery is located in the floor between the driver / passenger seats. Unfortunately the van is in storage - some distance away - so I cannot inspect that easily. My recollection its the fuse is in the compartment with the battery and there is a series of light gauge wires attached to one of the terminals along with the main supply cable.

I am a bit puzzled when you say the leisure battery is n't holding its charge and earlier in this thread you state you used the same form of battery for both the starter and the liesure. If you have changed the nature/form of the liesure battery does it still accord with the settings on the EBL? I seem to recall there is a switch to select the type of battery used but I have always used the Exide gels which Dethleff installed originally.

When functioning correctly I find the DT220 panel fine and personally would n't wish to bypass it.

If I am in the vicinity of the storage yard I will inspect the van and check on your queries regarding the fuse etc.
useraandncaravan
Posted: 31 December 2018 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Jak, the Err 1 defect is displayed when the DT220 Processor chip gets errors during it's start up 'self test'.
Err 1 is displayed when a solid fault exists in the DT220.

It sounds to me that the absence of this being reported indicates a fully working DT220, just that the EBL 220 isn't responding to the 'Power Up' command, usually because the EBL has an issue.

Even when the 'control electronics' circuitry gets spiked the EBL 220 will power up when using the 'DT220 bypass' plugs.

Unless Simon's unit is displaying Err 1, I would be willing to bet 1p that the issue is the Elektroblock EBL and that the 2a fuse 'issue' is a Red Herring.


The 'standard fit' Gel's are good at Deep Cycling, but can take more than twice as long to charge as the best flooded/wet batteries, which defeats the object somewhat. With Gel's also being twice the cost we recommend fitting the likes of the Varta LFD90/Yuasa L36-EFB as both Starter and habitation batteries.

As well as being better than most OEM batteries, it means you have a battery to 'back up' the other.

Yes the EBL charger setting 'should' be changed from Gel to Wet, however we are now recommending on the early EBL units that consideration should be given to running a big wet battery bank on the 'Gel' setting as the longer timer makes charging much faster. The Charge profile voltages are the same for Gel and Wet so there is no impact on that side, you just gain a longer 'Boost' charge 14.4v timer.

This advice is specific to the Elektroblock chargers up to the 'K' model that only had a 1 hour timer on 14.4v boost charge before dropping to 13.8v 'trickle' regardless of whether the battery was fully charged or not.
The later 'K' model (from about 2012) got a 4 hour timer.
Newer units from about 2015, get a long timer again, up to 16 hours.

See our 'How a Charger Works' web page for more info : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/how-does-a-charger-work.php







Edited by aandncaravan 2018-12-31 11:51 AM
userFrisby
Posted: 31 December 2018 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Hi Jac and “aandcaravan”

I read your saga Jac following a google search for DT220 panel faults which lead me to this forum.
Indeed your scenario is very similar to my present saga.

I’m dubious about assuming the Panel to be at fault though as on purchasing the second hand revamped Motorhome three yrs ago the dealer mentioned that I had a brand new panel as they mistakingly thought old one to be faulty.

I also don’t get this Er code except briefly once when reconnecting after using the emergency bridging wire.

Concerning the batteries, I replaced like for like, engine battery and leisure battery being identical so purchased 2 identical Platinum Plus 100AH batteries exactly same as ones removed.

I was slightly concerned that the one I used as leisure battery was sub standard as it was not fully charged when delivered to me but it is holding charge ok after all.

Next step: I’ll go for the 1p bet and replace the ELB.

Found the artical on batteries and charging rates very interesting.

Simon.




userjak
Posted: 31 December 2018 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Hi Alan nice to know your well again. I had thought the 'Err 1' warning had disappearred from my panel after a few attempts at re-booting the unit but my other half is of the opinion it constantly flagged up this defect - and her memory, unfortunately, is far better than mine.

I do not claim to be at all knowledgable on either the panel or the EBL unit but merely recounted my experience with the unit. I must admit if the bridging was n't effective then it seems probable that the problem is in the EBL but I was n't sure if Simon claimed the bridging had failed.

I now see in Simon's latest post says he did get an 'Er' code - briefly - when he used the bridge. Udo Lange's response to me when I reported this was....

'thank you for your mail.

When this happens Error 1, the processor or the programming on the DT has failed.

The only think you can do is to send the panel to us for repair'

I suppose the question is was it an Err 1 or some other error code.

It's all somewhat confusing and a bit disturbing given that three years ago the dealer also thought the DT220 panel was defective and replaced it only to discover the original unit was OK? Could it be an intermittent problem with the EBL?

Given the history of the van's electronics I would be tempted to get an experienced qualified electronics engineer to inspect it otherwise I suspect one could very rapidly expend a lot of cash unnecessarily.
useraandncaravan
Posted: 31 December 2018 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Frisby, please don't replace the Elektroblock EBL 220, they repair very well at half the cost.
Our turnaround is currently just 3 days.


Jak, Thank you, I am much better than when you first contacted us.

It may be that Frisby saw another error code, but Err 1 is the one you don't want to see.


We have supplied several DTxxx units to Dealers who misdiagnosed the issue and think that because the display won't 'power on' the EBL, it is the DTxxx at fault, when most of the time the issue is the EBL.

The displays are very high quality and generally reliable. Issues are generally preceded by random power down, temporary loss of data, strange display values, etc.

As for spending lots of unnecessary cash, if Simon sends the EBL to us we will tell him what we find before we initiate any work.
Testing the EBL control circuitry is quite a quick job and not expensive.
While Apuljack charge £208 for a EBL charger repair, including VAT, etc, we charge just £143 inclusive.
.








Edited by aandncaravan 2018-12-31 3:19 PM
userFrisby
Posted: 31 December 2018 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Hi again guys.

To clarify, I only had Er 1 flash up briefly once and self cleared in seconds.
On the several other reconnections following use of bridging wire the Er 1 was not displayed.

Alan? (“Aandncaravan)”, I will forward the Elektroblock to yourselves for repair if I may.

Jac, yes indeed I will source an experienced electrician to check the wiring, this lack of “sensing wire or fuse concerns me”.

Long drive home to Fife tomorrow night with kids, bikes etc etc.

Thereafter, I’ll dig this Elektroblock out.

(Motorhome is a 6 berth ducatto Dethleffs Advantage. (2 axel with bubble over cab).

Simon
useraandncaravan
Posted: 31 December 2018 8:00 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Frisby, While Hymer and Burstner are very, very good at following the Schaudt wiring guidelines for Elektroblock installation, that doesn't apply to all Motorhome builders.

Adria tend to do their own thing and so do Dethleffs, so while you are being advised to chase a 2a fuse I would suggest you regard any wiring anomalies as just being 'that's the way it is' until proven otherwise.


For example the EBL 226 used by Adria has a 2a fuse specifically marked up for Fridge 12v permanent supply, but Adria usually wire the Fridge from the nearest lighting circuit. Causes a lot of confusion.
We thought some one had been playing until the penny dropped on the third one.

If the system has always worked and there have been no wiring changes, then how can the 'missing 2a fuse' be relevant?

I would suggest you wait until you get the units assessed and then decide what you do about wiring anomalies, which might actually be 'normal'.


userFrisby
Posted: 1 January 2019 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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I agree. The wires concerned do emanate from ELB and straight into a wiring loom.
userFrisby
Posted: 3 January 2019 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: DT 220 panel problem Dethleffs Motorhome.
 
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Further to these discussions I have removed the ELB and packaged it to be forwarded to yourself Alan.
I await your mailing address.
Regards.

Simon
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