Daytime running lights

[Grumpy Grandad]

Hi.

The offside DLRs on our 2012 A class Rapido 9048 have stopped working. They are in a group of five and are all off. All other lights are working perfectly ok. Does anyone know if there is a specific fuse for them please, as the Fiat manual makes no mention of them. Thanks in anticipation.

Stuart

[Alanb]

I cannot help with specific fuse location. On A class MH's, vehicle lights are usually provided/fitted by the converter. Perhaps the Rapido manual may provide some help?

 

Alan

[Keithl]

I seem to recall a post a good few weeks ago where someone found out that all the DRL's fitted by the converter along the side of the coach bodywork were powered by the Fiat body builders connection point on the 'B' pillar behind the drivers seat. Have you checked that connection point for fuses?

 

Keith.

[Robinhood]

My Rapido A-class ownership is now rather dated, but I recall that a number of the Rapido additional items (such as electric mirrors) were fused behind the Rapido-added additional dash surround. (on mine, on the passenger side behind a "bottle holder" that could be removed by unscrewing).

 

It was the previous Ducato to yours, though, so layout may well be different.

 

According to the converters manual, the current Ducato has a specific connection (an orderable option) for 3rd-party coachbuilder added DRLs, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were a later addition, and Rapido have used their own arrangements.

 

I think I would also check that both main and dipped beam (fused separately) on the same side are still both working, in case they are piggy-backed off one or other of those fuses.

[Derek Uzzell]

Grumpy Grandad - 2021-06-13 6:18 PM

 

Hi.

The offside DLRs on our 2012 A class Rapido 9048 have stopped working. They are in a group of five and are all off...

Stuart

I believe you purchased your Rapido motorhome in late-2017.

 

I’m slightly wary that a 2012 (UK registered?) Rapido 9048DF model would have been built with DRLs included in its specification. Certainly DRLs were standard for that model by 2014 (image attached below) but 2012 sounds ‘early’ to me, and it might be helpful if you could confirm that the 5 x LEDs unit in the photo is what your motorhome has.

 

(If the DRLs have been retrofited, the installation might well not follow standard Fiat Ducato practice.)

[Grumpy Grandad]

Hi . The Rapido hand book makes no mention at all of any DLRs. The fuse box on ours is behind a panel beside the drivers knee, which is very difficult to get down too. Ideally you could do with removing the seat, but the seats are very heavy and awkward. That photo of the front of a Rapido that you have posted Derek, is exactly the same as ours. To get to the back of it , I will have to remove the front wheel and inner wheel arch. Hopefully there is just a blown fuse.

Stuart

[StuartO]

Aren’t there likely to be cable connection fairly close to the DLRS behind the front bumper, maybe a multipin, connecting to a Fiat lighting circuit? I would guess that a separate fuse for one side of the vehicle was unlikely. If so unmake, clean and remake the connector. And you could also apply 12v to the DRLs at that point (care with polarity) to see if the DRL unit has failed. LEDs are capable of failing.

[flicka]

Are the nearside DRL's working ?

I would anticipate both DRL's would operate off the same fuse, so think it more likely you need to check the wiring & connections first.

[Grumpy Grandad]

Hi. Nearside DLRs are working. As you say, it's unlikely that there will be a specific fuse for each side.. I was just hoping for the easy way out !! The DLR connecting cables are completely by the inner wheel arch, which is in turn attached to the front under bumper valance. Looks like it's a job for later today, as we are busy in the garden at the moment.

 

Stuart

[Robinhood]

It may be a complete red-herring, but the installation instructions for aftermarket "Ledcom" units are available here:

 

https://www.ledcom.co.uk/index.php?route=product/download/download&download_id=34

 

...which may give some insight into potential wiring practice (though the pictures look similar, I don't think yours are Ledcom).

 

It would appear that these are installed fused by a single "piggyback" fuse to an ignition controlled existing fuse (I would have though Rapido might make a specific fuse-way available, if these are indeed original fit) with the switching (off) being accomplished by a trigger wire attached to the dipped beam wiring on one side only.

 

The headlights on the X/250 are separately fused (right and left), so this could be one source of a single-sided failure (especially if the LEDs are wired separately on each side, and the ignition controlled source being used is that for the (same-side) headlight, but it would be easy to see/diagnose by turning on the headlights.

 

So:

 

i) a wiring problem

 

ii) a fuse problem (but only if each side is individually wired/fused, unlike the Ledcom ones)

 

iii) the leds have failed.

[Derek Uzzell]

This link is to a Rapido English-language catalogue for their 2013 mode-year (that would have begun in the latter half of 2012)

 

http://storage.highbridgecaravans.co.uk/brochures/2013-rapido.pdf

 

and photos of A-class models in the 90df range (eg. 9048df) show the 5-LED set of DRLs.

 

The “Electrical Installation” chapter of the Rapido User Manual for my 2015 model-year motorhome includes a section on 12V bulbs/lighting/signalling and this shows a photo and drawing of the 5-LED DRL set that was part of the standard specification (for the 2015 model-year) for 9dF/90dF/90dFH/10dFH motorhomes. Other than indicating that the DRLs are LED-type (hence cannot be changed like a conventional bulb) no other details are provided. There is also a “Changing the bulbs” sub-section that advises

 

Access to the bulbs of A-Class Fiat 9 Series motorhomes is via a hatch in each front wheel-arch. Remove the 4 retaining screws and then remove the hatch.

 

My Rapido User Manual indicates that CBE-made electrical equipment was fitted to 90dF models for the 2015 model-year. The list of fuses in the relevant CBE Distribution Box includes a 5A fuse (in fuseway 10) for “External lighting”, though I suspect that might be for an awning light and not for DRLs.

[Ninian]

Hi, I have DRL's on my Ducato from new 6 on each side, I don't know who fitted them but I'v just noticed that on the N/S 3 have gone dim although still slightly illuminated I contacted Autotrail to find out a price and availability and SHOCK HORROR for a set of 6 replacements £315 plus VAT and carriage. I'll have to look for another source.

[Grumpy Grandad]

Yes. I looked online for replacement Leds and stunned at the prices. £299.98. They did include free postage though. How kind !!

Stuart

[Derek Uzzell]

Ninian - 2021-06-14 5:37 PM

 

Hi, I have DRL's on my Ducato from new 6 on each side, I don't know who fitted them but I'v just noticed that on the N/S 3 have gone dim although still slightly illuminated I contacted Autotrail to find out a price and availability and SHOCK HORROR for a set of 6 replacements £315 plus VAT and carriage. I'll have to look for another source.

This O’Leary advert is for the DRL surround fitted to some Auto-Trall motorhomes

 

https://www.olearymotorhomes.co.uk/autotrail-drl-led-surround-ns-3766-p.asp

 

and adds that the DRL LEDS themselves are “also available on our website”.

 

The matter was discussed here last August and I notice that you commented then.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Delaware-driving-lights-help-please/56029/

[Derek Uzzell]

Grumpy Grandad - 2021-06-14 8:32 PM

 

Yes. I looked online for replacement Leds and stunned at the prices. £299.98. They did include free postage though. How kind !!

Stuart

LEDs for DRLs can be quite inexpensive. This complete kit that includes 10 LED units is advertised for £69.

 

https://www.carenhancementsuk.co.uk/products/led-daytime-running-lights-bumper-set-diameter-23mm

 

Although LED lighting for vehicles has tended to be ’sold’ to buyers on the premise that LEDs are everlasting, that’s certainly not the reality and a problem that, historically, would have been successfully addressed by a simple cheap light-bulb change can result in a large bill when LED lighting is involved.

 

Your Rapido’s problem is more likely to relate to a fault with the 12V power-supply to the offside DRL unit, rather than failure of the unit's LEDs. However, if the DRL unit’s LEDs were to have failed, the chances are minimal that you’d be able to obtain the complete unit (with the LEDs in place and in the correct colour) other than via a Rapido agent. For a 9-years old vehicle (and assuming that the DRL design was unique to Rapido) you might also find that Rapido no longer stocks these parts, so it might be worth you checking availability and price with a Rapido dealership ‘just in case’.

[Grumpy Grandad]

Good morning Derek.

I think it will be towards the weekend before I investigate further. The front wheel has to come off to gain access to the inner wheel arch panel. At least then I should be able to see the LEDs wiring connections. Hopefully there is just a poor connection. As you say, when all five LED's are out of action, it does point to a fault in the wiring.

Incidentally, you will recall that I asked earlier about tyre types. I have since had the two front tyres changed using Pirelli All Season 225/70 15s. Very pleased with my choice, a nice comfortable ride.

Stuart

 

[Grumpy Grandad]

Hi. I've checked as much of the wiring as I can. There appears to be no power getting to LED Driver. The wiring to the driver just comes out from the harness. Looks like it's now a job for an auto-electrician. Hey Ho, it's only money.

Thankyou to everyone for your welcome advice again.

Stuart

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Grumpy Grandad - 2021-06-15 7:28 PM

 

Hi. I've checked as much of the wiring as I can. There appears to be no power getting to LED Driver...

If there were no power reaching the LED driver I’d expect both sets of DRL to be ‘dead, but you’ve said that it’s only the offside DRL set that’s not illuminating.

[Grumpy Grandad]

Hi. Will there not be a separate driver for each side ? I never thought of looking at the nearside LEDs.

Stuart

[Derek Uzzell]

When you mention a “LED driver”, I’m guessing that you are referring to a small ‘black box’ that you’ve found in the wiring to your motorhome’s DRLs.

 

If that’s correct, then all of the DRL kits advertised online seem to have just a single ‘black box’ within which will be electrical components to control operation of the DRLs. I’ve attached a photo of a typical kit and this YouTube video describes the installation process.

 

 

As the DRLs on both sides of the motorhome should operate simultaneously, there should be no obvious need for separate control systems. On the other hand, the (standard Fiat) ‘bulb’ DRLs of my 2015 Ducato-based Rapido dim when the vehicle’s headlamps are switched on and, when a direction-indicator is operating, the DRL on that side also dims - but all of that could be handled without having duplicated controls..

 

As all the front lights of your A-class motorhome are non-standard non-Fiat units, without a Rapido wiring diagram it’s hard to know what Rapido has done wiring-wise. Checking the wiring of the nearside DRL (that is in working order) should give a clue to what’s not working properly on the offside.