Degradation of the Silicone Gap Sealant in 5-year old Motorhome

[DavyS]

I am reposting this because the title of my original post caused confusion

 

I have a 2015 Elddis with SoLID bonded construction with a 10-year water-ingress warranty.

 

At the last habitation check, an Approved Workshop engineer, produced a written report that there was no damp but “Silicone – a lot of areas coming away”

And it is true that most of the white silicone sealing between plastic mouldings and the body has split. Some of the sealant appears to be just cosmetic, for instance to fill the gaps where the plastic rear lightboard and wheel arch mouldings are attached to the side walls, and not as a seal against damp entering the motorhome. But its difficult to know what is decorative and what is not.

I fear that there is a distinct possibility that the condition and habitation report will invalidate my 10-year warrantee.

Is it normal to see some cracking of the silicone in a 5-year old motorhome?

The motorhome is now due for the 2020 habitation check. So I think I need to have the silicone dug out and replaced. Probably a long and expensive job and I have no guarantee that the replacement wont also split as the panels move. The hollow mouldings are only a few millimetres thick and meet the side walls at right angles – very difficult to fill and the slightest flexing of the moulding will break the seal apart.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

[ColinM50]

Boring and tedious it may be, but IMHO it's a job that needs doing if you want to maintain your warranty. Just cut it out with a sharp knife with a new blade, mask up both sides of the joint with 3M masking tape, apply small amounts of the silicone, smooth it out and remove the masking tape asap. Wear disposable gloves and pop the mucky tape straight in a old carrier bag

 

I'm a great advocate of the Mike Holmes method doing just this. Don't try to do it freehand, use masking tape, makes a better cleaner job and don't apply too much silicone.

 

Out of interest, I worked in France for six years and was involved in checking house rental contracts for my 300 contractors. Every rental contract quoted that the silicone around baths and kitchen worktops HAD to be renewed every year and I lost count of the number for rentals where the guys didn't do it and were charged by the owners to put it right.

 

It's an easy but boring job and a couple of hours will see it done. If you don't get it right first time, let the silicone go off and do it again next week. It'll be worth it.

 

Depends if it's interior or exterior as to which sealant you use, there's tons out there now but not a silly idea to phone a local dealer and ask what they use

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

What are the conditions for maintaining the Elddis 10 year water ingress warranty in force? Just a damp check (presumably by a workshop approved by Elddis or possibly the NCC), and if no damp is found and that is recorded as stipulated the warranty remains in force - or are there further requirements?

 

Does the workshop that provided this report meet the Elddis warranty conditions as suitable to carry out the checks?

 

Are they part of/connected with an Elddis dealership? If not, do/did they understand the significance of their report for maintaining the warranty?

 

Did the workshop advise Elddis under the warranty that remedial work was necessary? If so, what did Elddis say?

 

If the silicone sealant has relevance to maintaining the weatherproof integrity of van, then I would expect that to be a failure requiring work to maintain the warranty in force. That advice should have been given to you by the workshop.

 

But If the silicone is purely cosmetic, and not of relevance to maintaining the integrity of body-shell weatherproofing then, unless Elddis say otherwise, whether you replace those seals (or have them replaced) would be a purely aesthetic decision.

 

So, have you asked Elddis for their opinion on whether these seals are cosmetic or significant? I'm also intrigued as to why, having had that report for what appears to be nearly a year, you haven't pursued these issues earlier. Did the workshop advise you to do this?

[DavyS]

Colin, I like your advice and it would be nice to get into the mindset of annually seeing to any silicone seal failures and building the skill to do it and be independent - "just a couple of hours will see it done" - I hope thats true! At least its a nice outdoor job; unlike squatting in the base of the shower.

[DavyS]

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-08 6:51 PM

 

What are the conditions for maintaining the Elddis 10 year water ingress warranty in force? Just a damp check (presumably by a workshop approved by Elddis or possibly the NCC), and if no damp is found and that is recorded as stipulated the warranty remains in force - or are there further requirements?

DAMP CHECK BY AN AWS AUTHORISED REPAIRER PLUS FULL PAPERWORK. DONT SAY IF DAMP AFFECTS THE WARRANTY.

 

Does the workshop that provided this report meet the Elddis warranty conditions as suitable to carry out the checks?

YES - AWS

 

Are they part of/connected with an Elddis dealership? If not, do/did they understand the significance of their report for maintaining the warranty?

INDEPENDANT AWS. I DONT THINK HE UNDERSTOOD THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE REPORT REGARDING THE WARRANTY

 

Did the workshop advise Elddis under the warranty that remedial work was necessary? If so, what did Elddis say?

NOT BEING THE PROVIDING DEALERSHIP, HE DID NOT CONTACT ELDDIS

 

If the silicone sealant has relevance to maintaining the weatherproof integrity of van, then I would expect that to be a failure requiring work to maintain the warranty in force. That advice should have been given to you by the workshop.

WAS NOT

 

But If the silicone is purely cosmetic, and not of relevance to maintaining the integrity of body-shell weatherproofing then, unless Elddis say otherwise, whether you replace those seals (or have them replaced) would be a purely aesthetic decision.

I DONT KNOW IF THE SILICONE IS COSMETIC OR IS IMPORTANT FOR MAINTAINING THE WEATHERPROOFING.

 

So, have you asked Elddis for their opinion on whether these seals are cosmetic or significant?

I INTEND TO BUT THOUGHT IT WORTH GETTING SOME THOUGHTS HERE

 

I'm also intrigued as to why, having had that report for what appears to be nearly a year, you haven't pursued these issues earlier. Did the workshop advise you to do this?

VERY REMISS OF ME BUT ONLY RECENTLY WONDERING IF THE FILLER IS COSMETIC OR IMPORTANT.

[Adiebt]

Its rude to shout , even on the internet . Hope that helps ;-)

[jumpstart]

My Elddis document states....”Elddis products are covered against water ingress damage for 10 years.”

( no damage, no claim against warranty)

Contact your retailer if there is a problem as they have responsibility to ensure complaints are addressed.

 

There is no warranty issue at present as there is no damp.

[DavyS]

I was not shouting; merely trying to differentiate my replies from the questions and make it easier to read.

But normally you would be right.

[Keithl]

DavyS - 2020-02-10 12:38 PM

 

I was not shouting; merely trying to differentiate my replies from the questions and make it easier to read.

But normally you would be right.

 

Try using Bold or Italics to differentiate text.

 

If you click the 'Quote' button below you will see the method I use for doing such.

 

Keith.

[jumpstart]

DavyS - 2020-02-10 12:38 PM

 

I was not shouting; merely trying to differentiate my replies from the questions and make it easier to read.

But normally you would be right.

 

I think all except one realised that .

[Derek Uzzell]

This recent forum discussion may be of interest

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Sealing-leak/54354/

[DavyS]

Keithl - 2020-02-10 1:26 PM

 

DavyS - 2020-02-10 12:38 PM

 

I was not shouting; merely trying to differentiate my replies from the questions and make it easier to read.

But normally you would be right.

 

Try using Bold or Italics to differentiate text.

 

If you click the 'Quote' button below you will see the method I use for doing such.

 

Keith.

 

Thanks Keith, thats very usefull. But I think I will find it easier to remember standard html tags

[Brian Kirby]

DavyS - 2020-02-09 6:16 PM…………………………………….

1 Does the workshop that provided this report meet the Elddis warranty conditions as suitable to carry out the checks?

YES - AWS

…………………………..

2 But If the silicone is purely cosmetic, and not of relevance to maintaining the integrity of body-shell weatherproofing then, unless Elddis say otherwise, whether you replace those seals (or have them replaced) would be a purely aesthetic decision.

I DONT KNOW IF THE SILICONE IS COSMETIC OR IS IMPORTANT FOR MAINTAINING THE WEATHERPROOFING.

 

3 So, have you asked Elddis for their opinion on whether these seals are cosmetic or significant?

I INTEND TO BUT THOUGHT IT WORTH GETTING SOME THOUGHTS HERE

1 OK, so you had a valid damp check, and on the basis of my assumption in 2 below, the warranty can be presumed intact at present.

 

2 I assuming the damp check was negative (i.e. no damp detected) as you haven't said otherwise, so I think it is safe to presume the silicone is cosmetic and was not relevant to water ingress so far as last year's damp check was concerned.

 

3 I think it may be worth asking Elddis this question - though I don't think I would raise the point about it having been noted at last year's test. ;-)

 

The warranty is against water ingress so, for so long as the van tests dry, the warranty (subject to any stated exclusions) is to remedy any leak that causes water ingress.

 

I assume the report was for you, and all Elddis need as proof that the van tested dry is the workshop stamp or whatever in a warranty booklet showing that the van passed its 2019 test. Do you know if there is anything that the workshop submits back to Elddis, such as a completed stub from the warranty booklet - or are all the test result records maintained in the warranty booklet?

 

I would be a bit cautious about DIY repairs in this case, as if you do, and water ingress is later detected, it might be alleged that it was your repair that led to the ingress. I would anticipate a warranty condition saying that any work or repairs to the van must be carried out by an approved workshop - or similar.

 

If you are confident that you can reinstate the silicone seals to the same standard as the originals, you could go ahead, but if you do, I think complete this work before taking the van in for this years damp check. The downside is that if the van tests damp this year, the question as to when the defective silicone seals noted last year were replaced seems likely to be raised, as a late repair might then be critical to any water ingress repairs being accepted under warranty.

 

Either way, you should be OK if the van tests dry this year, but there seems to be an unavoidable risk created by the delay in dealing with the defective silicone. You might take some uncertainty out of this by taking the van to a different workshop and just asking for a damp check to be carried out, to see how it tests. Alternatively, you could get yourself a damp meter and do your own testing, but you'd need to get a professional quality meter (Protimeter or similar) to get reliable results, which merely adds cost and in any case the approved workshops meter will be trumps!

 

On balance, I think I would get this year's damp check carried out as planned (perhaps at a different workshop to benefit from fresh eyes), see if the van tests dry, and whether the same point is repeated, and then run your query past Elddis to see what they say based on this year's report and the test result?

 

The technical risk lies in the damp check, which you must have to maintain the warranty, and whether the failed silicone seals might have contributed to water ingress. At this stage I can't see how that risk can be averted before this year's damp check is carried out as, with the weather we've been having, there will either be damp, or there will not.

 

The risk, vis-a-vis the warranty, is if there is damp, if the failure of the silicone seals is blamed for that damp, if the pre-existence of the silicone failure is a significant factor, and if that is held to have voided the warranty.

 

At five years old you should expect the damp check to be negative (dry), but items such as joint sealants are applied manually, and assembly errors are possible. Whatever, I'd get those silicone seals done as soon as this year's damp check is done, whether that be under warranty as part of work to remedy any damp, or just to prevent continuing degradation. But perhaps someone else can see a way around your dilemma that I can't.

[DavyS]

Bob, thanks for taking the time to give such a considered reply.

Yes I do have a dilemma. But there is another complication. The dealer I bought the motorhome from has closed the branch and the nearest branch is some way away. So if they suggest, as they usually do, "well just pop it over and we will have a look" then that is another day I wont get back!

[jumpstart]

Having read the wording of the warranty several times ,it seems to me that after year two and three there is only what is left of the 10 year body integrity warranty and the word integrity is the important one. If the silicon seals break down there is a possible loss of integrity to the body panels. I would have thought before any remedial works are done by yourself you should put this information to the retailer to see if there would be a likely response from Elddis.

[TeamRienza]

Why is adiebt shouting “Cheshire” in his profile. ? Don’t tell me he is proud of that!

 

Davy

[ColinM50]

Just to pick up on a point Brian raised re does the dealer tell Eldiss results of a habi check. I can say they definitely do. Had a query with my m/h last year and Eldiss said I hadn't had a habi check in 19. I insisted I had and sent them a copy and they checked with the dealer and later updated their records and acknowledged same to me.

[Adiebt]

TeamRienza - 2020-02-10 7:16 PM

 

Why is adiebt shouting “Cheshire” in his profile. ? Don’t tell me he is proud of that!

 

Davy

 

Yes i am proud of residing in leafy Cheshire , very !

[breakaleg]

I have a 2015 Elddis Sunseeker 115.

At the first Habitation service They had to replace a lot of Sealant and I was told that it was purely cosmetic

I:E not essential for water ingress, after nearly five years it hasn't recurred and of course done under warranty.

They tell me that the van is dry, but as the supplying dealer perhaps they would .lol.

Perhaps Elddis had a job lot of dodgy mastic?

Pete

[shirles]

My campervan was converted here in NZ and the sliding door was replaced with a caravan habitation door . This involved using a fibre glass panel to fill the void and using plenty of sealant which after 4 years has turned grey/black in colour. Does anybody know of a cleaner that will restore it to it's white colour?

[Don636]

I know that, for sealant rounds baths and showers in the home, you can get rid of the discolouration completely by laying rolled up sections of kitchen paper soaked in bleach on the sealant and leaving overnight. You could try this on your van but it will be a bit trickier as most of the sealant is vertical. I think the soaked paper would still stick and you could secure it in place with some masking tape. I would first apply some masking tape to the surrounding bodywork as I’m not sure what effect bleach would have on it. I have tried proprietary mould removing gels at home but they did not work as well as bleach.

[Derek Uzzell]

I experimented with the bleach ploy on discoloured silicone sealant around a bath at home - it had some useful effect but (as I had anticipated) the only satisfactory solution was to remove the discoloured sealant and replace it.

 

I also tried ‘bleaching’ a small section of discoloured white sealant around my Rapido’s fuel-filler point. That did re-whiten the sealant but it also damaged it.

 

This 2018 forum thread discussed the issue

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Silicone-seal-cleaning/49414/#M567951

[jumpstart]

Have also heard toothpaste could work ,though not tried it myself. You should always bleach before reapply.

[Keithl]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-02-29 9:00 AM

 

I also tried ‘bleaching’ a small section of discoloured white sealant around my Rapido’s fuel-filler point. That did re-whiten the sealant but it also damaged it.

 

MH/Caravan sealant is not Silicon hence most likely why the bleach did not whiten it and even caused the damage.

 

It has been posted for many years NOT to use household Silicon sealant on MH and Caravans.

 

Keith.

[Don636]

Just read a connected post on this so went out to try T-Cut on the sealant round the small bathroom roof light and it does work up to a point. Not perfectly white but a noticeable difference and good enough for the roof lights for me.