Guest Brian M. Leahy Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 It would appear from announcements in the press and on TV that no one other than a certificated electrician can now do other than simple jobs on house electrics. Does anyone know how that will affect motorcaravans because most of them have mains electrical fittings. I ask the question because I asked someone to wire up an invertors and put in a couple more mains plugs and was told that he was not certain that he was now allowed to do such things now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Firstly it is not that you cannot do electrical work in the home, but that any work you do (other than changing socket fronts or light roses for instance) must now be notified to and inspected by the local authority building inspectors or inspected and certificated by a competant electrical engineer who is a "member of a competant person self certification scheme". This is now part of the Building Regulations giving statuory support to the IEE Wiring Regulations BS 7671 and is known as part 'P'. Therefore as a Motorhome is not a building covered by these regulations then they are not subject to the same conditions and you can in effect do as you please. As more and more 'Nanny State' regulation, from the EU in particular, takes place it is conceivable though that we may all have to have an inspection and certification of the quality of or M/home systems at defined intervals that we would have to show written confirmation of at a site before we were allowed to connect to the mains supply!! George Orwell must be turning in his grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Sorry don't know what happened there! Was also going to say that there are provisions in the IEE regs relating to caravans and mobile homes, normally fixed or sited examples, so that as they (the IEE regs) now have statutory support then they will need to be adhered to in these, however I would not have thought that the local authority building inspectors would wish to get involved with a motorhome, (it is neither fixed or a caravan, though the Road Traffic Regs refer to Motorised Caravan)! I have not seen any specific guidance for this, if I do I will post or perhaps someone else may have some knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian M. Leahy Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Right, I have a supplementary question. I have a 1995 Hymer 544 with an end kitchen and I want to fit an inverter behind the facia next to the electrical control panel underneath the cupboard but the question is, "How do I get it behind the facia?" Looking underneath the front of the facia I can see three hinges running in line but I can not find out how, or even if, the underneath of the cupboard that holds the facia drops down. Can anyone enlighten me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neal Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Brian Your initial post posed a regulatory question but your subsequent post refers to a very specific "how to" question. I have absolutely no idea how to access anything on any model of Hymer but, regarding the IEE regs issue, I think it is all to do with PROPOSED inspection and certification regulations. I believe that, eventually, it is intended that sellers of property must produce a certificate of worthiness relating to the electrical installation in said property. Part P of the regs is a step towards this. Currently it does not apply to "caravans" in the broadest sense and, in my view, will not affect them. It is aimed at dwellings, properties designed for permenant inhabitation. All the while electrical installation equipment is freely available over the counter by Joe Public at hardware stores there is little chance of effecting any legal restrictions on its use. Regards Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeteC Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Well for a start I havenot read the New regs From what I have read the new regulation re;- work must be carried out by a competent person. This had been brought about to stop 'cowboys' from operating any thing other than minor work - such as changing plugs replacing sockets.... have to be carried out by the competent person. However there are many jobs that do not have to be reported which could prove fatal As sais ina previous post 'You cannot hear, smell, see electricity' - but it dont half pack a punch when it bites From the post that I replyed to earlier if Motor homes are not included then they should be - My last rply was to someone who was asking about a bungled job of wiring up a motor home with NO protective equipment whatever On a recent trip tp the electrical wholesalers (June 2004) I was asked about my competency before I was allowed to buy the gear that I wanted. The wholesalers were then being carefull to whom thet sold gear in anticipation of the regs comming into force For years we have been fighting to prevent people who are badly trained by the so called skills section, where you got a certificate simply by attending and getting a suplement on the top of the dole money Formerly lecturer in Electrical Instalation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Neal Sorry to disagree with you but it is NOT proposed at all it is already with us. Part 'P' of the Building Regulations on electrical safety was announced by Government on 15th July 2004 furthermore it was published on 22 July 2004 giving statuary support to the IEE Wiring RegulationsBS 7671 and bringing domestic electrical installations in England and Wales under building regulations control,(presumably Scotland will be dealing or not under their own steam). This legal instrument means that, from 1st January 2005, anyone carrying out domestic electrical installation work must comply with Part P. Where work is notifiable it must be certificated by a member of a competent person self certification scheme OR the work must be notified to the local authority, which will then be responsible for the inspection and testing it for electrical safety. further information may be obtained from the website of the Deputy Prime Minister at www.odpm.gov.uk But importantly failure to comply with the building regulations is a criminal offence and local authorities have the power to require the removal or alteration of work that does not comply with the requirements. aperson carrying out electrical work that contravenes the regs can be fined up to £5000 for the contravention and £50 each day the contravention continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 I shall not get embroiled in the implementation of this totally OTT legislation arguement but will comment on another question raised re the Hymer. The position you propose for the inverter is not a good choice. The inverter should be mounted close to the leisure battery to keep the leads short. If you need to, install a mains extension lead from the inverter position to where you require the mains socket in the van. Make sure that the DC input to the inverter is suitably fused or protected with a circuit breaker. Make sure you have a visible indication that the inverter is turned ON even if nothing is plugged into it. Inverters will take a small but continuous quiescent current so will slowly discharge your battery if left on when not required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 I forgot to add that the inverter should be mounted so that it has a supply of cool air. Behind a panel as suggested is unlikely to provide this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian M. Leahy Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Firstly thanks for all the replies on the regs question. Far more helpful than a couple of other forums I asked the question on. I have a screwdriver in my tool box with the end blown of which I kept to remind me of the dangers of letting unskilled people such as myself deal with electricity so I have to say that I favour the new regs. Secondly, thanks for the advice on the inverter which coincides with advice given in the latest issue of MMM. Now al I need to do is to find someone close to where I live in the Abingdon area to fit it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neal Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Brian You could try Steve Dunn of Mobile RV Maintenance 01993 851828. He's based at Bampton, near Witney but is also mobile. Paul I stand corrected on what you have said but, for clarity, the new regs do not apply to caravans and motorhomes, do they? Regards Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Inverter wiring - Well, that's a coincidence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Brian, In addition to Paul's reply, the Building Regulations Part P, 'Electrical safety in dwellings' only applies to electrical work in the following:- # a dwelling # the common parts of buildings serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts # a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling, and # A garden or in or on land associate with a building where the electricity supply is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling # The term dwelling includes houses, maisonettes and flats. It also applies to electrical installations in business premises that share an electricity supply with dwellings, such as shops and public houses with a flat above. # The common parts of buildings includes access areas in blocks of flats such as hallways and shared amenities in blocks of flats such as laundries and gymnasiums. # Part P applies to electrical installations located in outbuildings such as detached garages, sheds and greenhouses. # Part P applies to parts of electrical installations located on land around dwellings such as garden lighting. You will see from the above that there is no mention of Motorhomes. Therefore, it can be concluded that the Building Regulations Part P does not apply to Motorhomes. Have a good nights sleep !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 Thanks for that Alan I hope you are right as I said I could not find any direct reference to M/homes but was concerned that the BS standards that does mention Caravans and mobile homes might be used to stop activities in our hobby. I actually am not infavour of this regulation as I believe it has more to do with government trying to stop work being carried out and payed for, that they cannot get their ounce of tax from rather than any thought for the safety of people!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Leahy Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 I contacted the office of the Deputy Prime Minister and a civil servant sent the follwoing reply. The Government introduced Part P to help reduce the number of deaths, injuries and fires caused by faulty fixed electrical installations. Part P requires that all installations should be carried out to the safety standards in BS 7671 (the ‘wiring regulations’). It also requires that where there is a significant risk, the work should be checked to make sure it meets those standards. There is no restriction as to who may carry out such installation work. There are two ways that this check may be done: the work may either be undertaken by a member of a competent person scheme who is able to self-certify it, or it must be notified in advance to the local authority building control department. The local authority will then inspect and test it to make sure that it meets the safety standards in the wiring regulations. However, much minor electrical work can be carried out without the need to employ a member of a competent person scheme or notify the local authority. Such work includes the addition of power points, lighting points and spurs to exiting circuits (provided that it is not in a kitchen, bathroom or outdoors) or any repair, replacement or maintenance work. In your particular case, it is probable that you will not need to inform the local authority or employ an electrical installer who is a member of a competent person scheme, because a motorcaravan is not defined as a building, and so is exempt from the building regulations, unless it is more than 60 feet long, or more than 20 feet wide or more that 10 high (measured from floor to ceiling). Seems to me that its not as bad as it first looked. Brian L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Yeah and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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