ColinM50 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Saw this posted on another site and thought it worthy of asking here. If I've had a few drinks and am parked up in a public car park, can Mr Plod breathalyse me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1951Pete Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 From my knowledge ,as it is a public car park you can be breathalysed as you are in charge of the vehicle. A public car park is the same as on a road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Here is a link Derek posted some time ago. http://www.policespecials.com/forum/topic/124402-drunk-in-charge-of-a-vehicle-camper-van/ There are many opinions, and whilst I've heard of people getting charged for being drunk whilst sleeping it off in a car, never heard any cases of it happening in a campervan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 This has been done to death over the years and the simple answer is you will be fine as long as you have no intention of driving. Ive been sat outside the van in a layby five beers down and the Police turned up. I chatted to them and even offered them a beer, of course they declined. I dont think it even entered their heads that I might be driving as it was clear I was there for the night. In any case if there are two or three of you and all drivers and the keys are on the table who are they going to nick? Stop worrying and have a beer. The only possible downside is if your wild camping or in a car park and for some reason you need to move on your a bit stuffed as you cant. Ive been in the odd place where rowdy teenagers or boy racers have turned up and if Ive been sober I might move on, your kind of stuck if your pished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 This summary seems as good as any https://www.ibblaw.co.uk/service/road-traffic-offences/drunk-charge-motor-vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agaric Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Because someone is a police officer doesn't mean they know the law, so you may be fine when questioned by one officer over something but the next time you may be nicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Still unlikely. As far as I know in all the years I have been motorhoming I dont know of a single case where a motorhomer whilst wild camping and having a drink has been done for drink in charge. I think the odd car driver may have been but they are entirely two different things. A person sat in a car in Tescos car park whilst drinking or drunk may well arouse suspicion of a Police officer but a couple in a motorhome sat watching Coronation Street with a bottle of wine is hardly the same thing. I think they would have to prove intent and it would be thrown out of court as the evidence against intention to drive would be overwhelming. You could argue that a campsite is a public place so could you not in theory be done there? As preposterous as it sounds the law in the link above says any place where the public have access to. Its not something I worry about at all unless its a situation where I think I may want to be in a position to move on by my own choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-30 10:29 AM Still unlikely. As far as I know in all the years I have been motorhoming I dont know of a single case where a motorhomer whilst wild camping and having a drink has been done for drink in charge. I think the odd car driver may have been but they are entirely two different things. A person sat in a car in Tescos car park whilst drinking or drunk may well arouse suspicion of a Police officer but a couple in a motorhome sat watching Coronation Street with a bottle of wine is hardly the same thing. I think they would have to prove intent and it would be thrown out of court as the evidence against intention to drive would be overwhelming. You could argue that a campsite is a public place so could you not in theory be done there? As preposterous as it sounds the law in the link above says any place where the public have access to. Its not something I worry about at all unless its a situation where I think I may want to be in a position to move on by my own choice. Whilst I agree with most of what you say, I would point out in the event (although never known) of being charged it is not up too the prosecution to prove you had intent to drive, it is up to you to prove you had no intent. We where once in the position of having to drive whilst drunk after 'wilding', there is a defence of ‘duress of circumstance’ which would have been fairly easy for me to prove from the police's own records, but it is not something I'd like to consider again, so would be very wary of drinking whilst 'wilding' ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 My understanding from talking to Traffic Police over the years is that the person in charge of the motorhome [parked or not] must be within the drink/drive limit, insured and licensed to drive the motorhome. The issue does not then arise. As the link Derek provided says, there is no definition of '[Drunk] in charge'. It is, though, as Colin and Derek's link says, "Unlike many other offences, with the offence of being drunk in charge, the accused must prove that they did not have any intention to drive the vehicle. The prosecution is not required to prove that the accused was likely to drive whilst unfit or over the limit." The chances of a motorhomer being breathalysed when parked up are probably minute but the consequences of being found guilty are clear and will probably end your motorhoming life. As Clint Eastwood said in Dirty Harry, "You've got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? [Well, do ya, punk?’] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Hugely difficult this one! Scenario, on a campsite, having had a glass or two, when the alarms go off as a van is on fire and all campers are required to leave the site. Extenuating circumstances maybe, but still an offence being committed. Scenario 2, and I have witnessed this on a few occasions, campers have a lovely party night, go to bed late, but get up and leave the site early, probably still over the limit. Although common sense should have to prevail, I can't see the Police deliberately targeting motorhome drivers unless they are in breach of a local law. But again, if in a public place, parked illegally, and asked (respectfully) to move on, then if that driver has been drinking then the law is clear. So the answer is, don't go over the limit if you are parked in a place that could have you moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 The keys must not be in the ignition. This will be deemed with intent to drive. It’s recommended they are stored in a cupboard. Not within reach from the drivers seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 flyboyprowler - 2017-12-30 6:48 PM Hugely difficult this one! Scenario, on a campsite, having had a glass or two, when the alarms go off as a van is on fire and all campers are required to leave the site. Extenuating circumstances maybe, but still an offence being committed. Scenario 2, and I have witnessed this on a few occasions, campers have a lovely party night, go to bed late, but get up and leave the site early, probably still over the limit. Although common sense should have to prevail, I can't see the Police deliberately targeting motorhome drivers unless they are in breach of a local law. But again, if in a public place, parked illegally, and asked (respectfully) to move on, then if that driver has been drinking then the law is clear. So the answer is, don't go over the limit if you are parked in a place that could have you moved on. Hi, Scenario 2 is the reason I believe it sensible to carry a self tester whilst travelling. You can get an Alcosense model ,recommended by police for reasonable cost. I say this because it must be harder to establish what level of alcohol is on your bloodstream the day after. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 derek pringle - 2017-12-31 10:04 AM Hi, Scenario 2 is the reason I believe it sensible to carry a self tester whilst travelling. You can get an Alcosense model ,recommended by police for reasonable cost. I say this because it must be harder to establish what level of alcohol is on your bloodstream the day after. cheers derek On this subject, is it still necessary to carry breathalysers in France. I heard that this requirement had now stopped. Agree, that the carrying of a self tester is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I’ve chopped the following from another website... "Do you need a breathalyser in France 2017? Disposable breathalyser kits remain on the list of items you are required to take with you when you drive in France, however there is no fine for not having a breathalyzer in your car. In January 2013, the French government said the fine for not having an unused breathalyzer with you (which was to have been €11) has been postponed indefinitely. In other words, you are supposed to take one but there is no fine imposed for non-compliance” Recent-ish forum thread here: http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/French-breathaiyzer-requirements/47688/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 flyboyprowler - 2017-12-30 6:48 PM Hugely difficult this one! Scenario, on a campsite, having had a glass or two, when the alarms go off as a van is on fire and all campers are required to leave the site. Extenuating circumstances maybe, but still an offence being committed. Scenario 2, and I have witnessed this on a few occasions, campers have a lovely party night, go to bed late, but get up and leave the site early, probably still over the limit. Although common sense should have to prevail, I can't see the Police deliberately targeting motorhome drivers unless they are in breach of a local law. But again, if in a public place, parked illegally, and asked (respectfully) to move on, then if that driver has been drinking then the law is clear. So the answer is, don't go over the limit if you are parked in a place that could have you moved on. Yes but if you were asked to move on either by a land owner, council official or even the Police and had been drinking then you would simply just have to say I aint going anywhere until I am sober. There is no way I would move the van if I had been drinking just because someone told me to. Even if you got fined it would be a lesser penalty than being done for drink driving. I Cant ever imagine a scenario where that would happen to me but I guess you never know but there is no way I would move a vehicle, any vehicle if I was over the limit no matter who told me to do it. Like I Said earlier, in a motorhome if the keys are in a drawer somewhere in the van and there are two or more people in that van who are all drivers and all have been drinking who is in charge anyway? Who would they prosecute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I rarely drink more than one glass of wine, but, especially when in France, if driving the next day, I will not even have that.....stick to the H2O or fruit juice..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-12-31 9:47 AM ... "Do you need a breathalyser in France 2017? Disposable breathalyser kits remain on the list of items you are required to take with you when you drive in France, however there is no fine for not having a breathalyzer in your car. In January 2013, the French government said the fine for not having an unused breathalyzer with you (which was to have been €11) has been postponed indefinitely. In other words, you are supposed to take one but there is no fine imposed for non-compliance” I think its sensible to follow the letter of the law when abroad, and we still carry one, and also, for what its worth, ensure its still within use by date! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 There is a fair amount of advice/discussion on French websites about that country’s breathalyser law. For instance this recent (GOOGLE-translated) example https://tinyurl.com/ycdmqsbn The webpage mentions that a motorist who contravenes the law cannot be fined, but will be exposed to a “reminder of the law”. This is explained as follows: "Definition A reminder of the law is a measure ordered by the prosecution against the offender of a minor offense. The perpetrator of the offense is not subject to criminal prosecution. Goal This is to make the offender aware that he has committed an illegal act to prevent him from reoffending. This alternative measure is most often chosen when the offense has not caused a victim or if the harm suffered by it is of minor importance. Criminal record The recall to the law is not written on the criminal record of the perpetrator.” French police officers commenting on on-line forums say that a ‘reminder’ would not be issued merely for a breathalyser-law infringement. As the offender cannot be fined, it’s just not worth the paperwork. I haven’t found anything on-line to suggest that the French police are actually checking whether motorists have a breathalyser in their vehicle, but I suspect the police are not. In mid-2017 a French website appeared claiming that heavy fines were being imposed for non-compliance. This was widely discussed on social media (There’s a surprise!) but it proved to be a scaremongering attempt to sell expensive electronic breathalysers to gullible motorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 My French relatives never bothered to buy the disposable breathalysers on the principal that the likelihood of being stopped was minimual and that the fine for non compliance was only 10 euros. Discovering that they had to be replaced every two years didn’t help. The final nail in the coffin came when it was discovered that they were not particularly accurate. Anecdotally, I had two from the start when I drove my car extensively in France. After a particularly boozy family evening meal I decided to try one. It gave me a pass. The fact that there is no longer enforcement of the law says it all. Incidentally, in my experience the older generation of French people do still (illegally) drink and drive although I don’t know about the younger generations. I compare this to the UK were increasingly a driver will not drink at all and in fact will be expected not to drink, I include myself in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 There is (was?) a constructive ambiguity in the French psyche! :-) Being drunk required consumption of alcohol. But wine and beer were not considered to be alcohol. If you were asked "voulez vous un alcool", and you replied "oui", out came the Cognac! Beer and wine just didn't make the grade! Wine was an essential aid to the digestion, and so obligatory at pretty much all means except breakfast, so how could anyone be accused of being drunk after a good lunch? :-) It was, and still is a bit, quite noticeable, that roads in France get more interesting after about 2:30 pm, especially on minor roads where "les flics" don't go. Thus (more or less) everyone is contented! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 This (GOOGLE-translated) link relates to French road-deaths in 2015 https://tinyurl.com/y8h8vdn3 The report of this incident may amuse https://tinyurl.com/yarcujv6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Keith T - 2017-12-31 1:48 PM I rarely drink more than one glass of wine, but, especially when in France, if driving the next day, I will not even have that.....stick to the H2O or fruit juice..... hi Keith, Could,t bear the thought of going to France[or any holiday] without the odd tipple. You must be a man of great will power imo. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 It is the same in Portugal. I have sat with a friend, chatting over a glass of wine, who informed me he had given up drinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 derek pringle - 2018-01-01 9:32 AM Keith T - 2017-12-31 1:48 PM I rarely drink more than one glass of wine, but, especially when in France, if driving the next day, I will not even have that.....stick to the H2O or fruit juice..... hi Keith, Could,t bear the thought of going to France[or any holiday] without the odd tipple. You must be a man of great will power imo. cheers derek Derek - its only if we are driving the next day - tho9gh I have never been stopped its not worth risking it as far as I am concerned, and I;m quite happy with non alcoholic drinks !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Keith T - 2018-01-01 7:56 PM derek pringle - 2018-01-01 9:32 AM Keith T - 2017-12-31 1:48 PM I rarely drink more than one glass of wine, but, especially when in France, if driving the next day, I will not even have that.....stick to the H2O or fruit juice..... hi Keith, Could,t bear the thought of going to France[or any holiday] without the odd tipple. You must be a man of great will power imo. cheers derek Derek - its only if we are driving the next day - tho9gh I have never been stopped its not worth risking it as far as I am concerned, and I;m quite happy with non alcoholic drinks !!! I think on average your body dispels about 1 unit of alcohol an hour.. A small glass of wine is about 1 unit so after one glass of wine there would be no chance of you being over the limit the next morning whatsoever even if it was a big glass or probably an entire bottle as long as you didnt leave at the crack of dawn. If I have four or five beers ill drive the next day but if I am drinking more than that or till late I just dont drive at all the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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