Driving comfort

[Guest Gloria Smith]

Thanks for the information on motor homes versus caravans. Can you advise which of the different vehicles provides a comfortable drive for arthritic motorists. My husband had problems with his back when driving peugeot motorhomes. Gloria

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Not sure if your question is really answerable Gloria, as it depends on which aspects of the driving environment are causing your husband discomfort. Many motorhomes that employ the base-vehicle manufacturers' cab use the original commercial seats, often re-trimmed or with seat covers. In such cases it's tricky to advise which seats are 'best' as people's physiques vary considerably and a seat that one person can drive from happily all day may cause another aches and pains within a very short time. In my opinion (and I've got a bad back too and am suffering as I write this), I'd suggest that the standard SEVEL (Citroen/Fiat/Peugeot) commercial seats are the worst of the bunch, with VW's the best and Mercedes and Ford seats 2nd and 3rd respectively. But others, with different shapes, may well claim the opposite. For what it's worth, I've found that seats with a pump-up lumbar support facility (like the older Ford seats) can help with back pain. Some motorhome converters (eg Rapido) replace the original seats with more luxurious-looking designs and such practice is normal on A-Class motorcaravans. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that non-standard seats will necessarily provide improved driving comfort. I once owned a car that had multi-part seats that could be adjusted in every conceivable direction, but they were never comfortable and I eventually replaced them. This might be a option for you as there are driving-seats designed on good orthopaedic principles (Recaro is one maker), but such products don't come cheap. (See www.tekseating.co.uk for information on replacement seating.) Personally, I'm not a fan of the SEVEL driving environment - at least not in right-hand drive form. I don't like how the foot-pedals are offset and, as I'm short, I have trouble reaching them if a seat-swivel has been fitted to the driver's seat (though this last observation is usually true for other makes). I find left-hand drive versions of otherwise identical motorhomes sometimes offer a better driving position (for me), particularly when it comes to pedal placement. Another snag with driving comfort is that it's often not simply a matter of sitting in a vehicle's driving-seat and saying "This will be OK". There is a story that buyers of a new Porsche sports-car complained that the seats were hard and uncomfortable. Porsche replied that their seats had been specially designed for long-distance trips and the problem was that the buyers' bodies had become accustomed to soft seats with poor ergonomics. (Like the school-kids rejecting Jamie Oliver's healthy menus because they had become hooked on junk food.) "Your bodies need re-educating", Porsche said, "Keep driving and you'll find the seats will become comfortable." And the Porsche owners did, and the seats did too. I think you are going to have to shop around. If your husband immediately recognises there is something wrong for him with a motorhome's basic driving environment, then it would be sensible to remove that design (or even that make of base-vehicle) from your shopping-list. If it's just the seat that's dubious, then consider same-make vehicles where converters (like Rapido) have used different seats. If the seat is too high, then consider having a lower seat-box fitted (available for certain base-vehicles) or having a seat-swivel removed. Replacing the driving-seat itself is best considered a last resort due to the cost, though I recall a specialist in seat adaptation once telling me of an elderly couple who had spent over £2000 on a pair of top-of-the range Recaro orthopaedic seats for their Nissan Micra. I said they must be mad, but the fitter explained that the couple loved the car for its smallness and ease of control but found the standard seats excruciating. "How much is being able to drive in comfort worth?" he asked. It's fair comment.

[Guest PeteC]

Hi Gloria I have trouble with a bad back when driving. Some time back (1990 to be prosice) we bought a Renault trafic Van. This had fully adjustable seats Squb height, Front and rear seperately, Plus the normal adjustment for forward & backwards (pedal reach) And adjustble seat back. My back ache vanished. When we changed to a MH in 2001 we bought a Renault Master converted by Devon Conversions The van handles like a carand with the Turbo engine has the power to take you up most motorway hills (including the climb up Shap Fell from the southern, Kendal end) in top (5th) gear' the new engines now have 6 gears Ours is 6 m long but they now do a shorter version but still with a high roof.

[Guest David]

Gloria, The worst thing anyone who has back problems can do is drive. Would you consider hitting youself on top of the head with a hammer for hours on end? But we sit in a vehicle with the base of our spine's subjected to the same treatment. This was the explanation given to me by my Chiropractor. Yes I still drive but I know when I have had enough and start taking the pills. We have Ciroen BX and the seats are fantastic, we can travel for hours and no problems, we also have a Citroen Xantia, two hours and the trouble starts we have a break and walk around for a bit before continuing our journey. The seats in our Fiat base M/home do not give us a problem but then we seem to sit more upright. Shop around thats the answer. David

[Guest Nick Miller]

Yet another elderly male,Gloria, with lower back niggles.I dont call it pain yet. But to show how different we all are(well Derek & myself) i recently changed my MH from a VWT4 to a Newer Peugeot. The driving position is more upright, and dominant,the little lumbar pad fits just where it should and i now feel much more comfortable. The dog also ensures that i never drive for more than a couple of hours without a break.

[Guest Mike]

This does not answer your question but it may help fellow back sufferers. I have had a prolapsed disc and suffer from arthritis. I experienced terrible pain in my back for many years when driving. However one year when we went to the USA I had to hire an automatic car. I noticed that my back pain was severely reduced when driving. On returnibg to the UK I bought an automatic car and the difference was incredible. If you think about it the pressure on the spine from using a clutch is considerable. I read a few months ago that top footballers who suffer from persistant hamstring and back injuries are banned by their clubs from driving anything other than automatics. So with the medical resources at their disposal there must be something in it.

[Guest Clive]

I don,t agree totally with some of the comments above. I have a fragile back. Its OK until I forget about it and do something stupid. Then I cannot stand up straight for days. The most comfortable place to sit is in the Merc Sprinter based camper. The seats are tutonic, solid, set very upright and provide support in just the right places. I can drive for hours even with a knackered back. It a manual gearbox with a clutch. Next best is the seats in our 13 year old Landrover Discovery. But the clutch here is a tad heavy. In neither vehicle do I need to sit down, mearly slide across then lean back. The worst car I ever had to drive was a Honda Civic. One almost laid down! I wouldn,t even contemplate trying this with a bad back. I haven,t ever driven a Fiat based MH, only a Fiat 500 car, but thats another story!

[Guest David Powell]

Hello Gloria..Some time in the not too distant past there was an artical in "I think" MMM about driving comfort in base vehicles,I forget who wrote it, or it may have been in another magazine that is given away at M/C Shows,but I would not be surprised if Derek recalls it, he has an amazing information retrieval system. Renault Traffic came out on top as the most comfortable. My "van is on a Traffic chasis/cab rear wheel drive and I find it a very comfortable ride, even has a lumber support pump, along with the other adjustments. You could of course buy the 'van you fancy and change the seats to something that is really fully supporting, for example:- have a look at www.recaro-seats.co.uk/sports.asp there are other seat manufacturers, but this will give you an idea. On the other hand you could do what I did with one 'van back along, is go to a scrapyard...sorry...automotive recycling company, sit in all the big crashed cars 'til you find something that suits you. I fitted two big leather Zodiac seats, gorgeous. Zodiac gives away my age a bit doesn't it.

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Replies to date seem to prove 2 things - we're all different and there are lots of motoracaravanning males with poorly backs - no wonder this forum gets a mite grumpy sometimes! While I was mowing our 3 acres of lawn (well it seems like that) I remembered that I'd overlooked Renault and also Iveco. The latest Renault Trafic has a car-like driving position that has been much praised. The only Renault Master motorhomes I've sat in have had replacement cab-seats, so I don't know what the standard ones are like. Can't recall much about the Iveco Daily chassis except that the driving position of the Laikas I tried didn't suit me, but this wasn't because of the seat. I don't remember an MMM 'driving comfort' article - it sounds more like something Which Motorcaravan would do. I have got a recent French article on base-vehicle cab environments - Ducato, Master, Sprinter and Transit - but this doesn't deal with seat-comfort as such. (The Fiat Ducato cab was judged best incidentally.)

[Guest Clive]

For the last 15 years we have done a "run" where we drive 460 miles, cross the channel on the ferry, then drive another 130 miles. For two years I did this run in a BMW 325I. It went like a rocket but flats on the rump, frozen ankle, locked knees etc. Then we traded in the BMW for the Landrover Discovery. That journey may take us just a little longer but the driving experience was transformed. No longer sat down but now sat up like a professional driver. Seats that are designed for people who spend their working life driving. Sorry, but for me a conventional airodynamic low CO2 car will never be as comfortable as a commercial house brick. So if some new vans are to have the driving position modeled on that from a car then the designers have lost the plot!

[Guest Mike C]

Just picked up this thread, a bit late. My wife has arthritis in just about every major joint and travel in most standard vehicle seats is dificult. She is 9st and 5' 8" tall and finds the Van type seats in the Sevel base vehicles (Ducato and Boxer) comfortable but with a slight modification that anyone can create. Many years ago an HGV driver gave us some invaluable advice. He carried pieces of what is now called memory foam and used these to provide support where required. The expensive version of this can be found on the Magellan travel website (www.magellans.co.uk) We have copied the seat cushion shape for Kay and purchased the inflatable lumbar supports for both seats and use them in both the car and motor caravan. The longest journey we drive is about 450 miles in one day but have frequent stops to stretch the legs. Kay can do this without any major discomfort. From our experience there is only one truly comfortable vehicle seat the front seats in most Saab cars. Regards, Mike C.

[Guest Mike C]

Look in Magellans In Flight Comfort for the Comfort Lumbar Pillow and there is also a Flatulence Filter Cushion - very usefull!!

[Guest Mel B]

Clive - what's this about you and a Fiat 500 car? I'm intrigued!!! My husband and me help fun a microcar club and just wondered if you still had it? Mel B

[Guest Clive]

"just wondered if you still had it" I wish we still did, but alas NO. It was traded in for a Simca, a total load of rotting rubbish many years back. The Fiat 500 was the first "propper" car my wife had, it had all the basics, 4 seats,gear lever, manual clutch and a heater that worked. I purchased it with some money made in installing a massive boiler on a pig farm for sterilising and cooking the swill. It would make a nice "project" to restore one. The only problem with ours was that one of the rocker pivot clamping bolts had stripped the thread in the head so I helicoiled it. Before the Fiat 500 Janet ran a NOBEL three wheeler that I re-built. That was featured in the AA magazine many years back. 3 forward speeds and 3 reverse speeds by starting the 2 stroke engine up backwards. It let her down so many times and when I turned up it always started. She got madder each time. It turned out to be a partial blockage in the fuel line by an in-line filter I was not aware of. When Janet set off the flow rate would not keep up with demand and the carburettor float chamber slowly emptied. It stopped. Float chamber filled up, I arrived ...... Nostalga!