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Driving-lights in Europe?


Guest Derek Uzzell

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Guest Derek Uzzell
There I am looking at reversing-camera systems on an NEC stand (I'm pretty sure it was Stand 2457 - Ideal Accessories) and, early on in the selling spiel, the exhibitor explains how easy the system is to fit by just connecting it to the vehicle's side-lights. I ask if he means "reversing lights", but he says "No, because then the camera would only be switched on when you wanted to reverse." "OK," says I, "but why should I want the system to function only when my vehicle's side-lights are on?" This seemed to me a logical enough question - you'd either want a reversing-camera to operate just for reversing, or, if you planned to use the system as the equivalent of a rear-view mirror, you'd want it to work continuously while driving, not just when the vehicle's lights were on. It transpires that the 'side-light principle' is based on the contention there is now a Continental Europe-wide traffic regulation that all vehicles must have their lights on whenever they are being driven. "That's surely not right?" I ask, but the salesman is adamant this is correct, maintaining that the rule will soon be extended to the UK "as we are always 6 months behind Europe legislation-wise." I'm aware I'm neither infallible nor omniscient, so I worry about people who are absolutely certain in their beliefs in case they know something important I don't. I realise that particular European countries have had daytime headlight regulations for years, and I believe France is presently experimenting with a (voluntary) scheme encouraging drivers to use dipped-headlights outside built-up areas. If you told me that consultation is in progress on compulsory daytime dipped-headlight use throughout the Eurozone I wouldn't argue or be surprised. But I'm not aware of any current pan-Continental Europe law making daytime headlight use obligatory, nor am I aware that such a rule is impending for the UK. Lots of you are all over Europe all of the time, so you must know the present situation headlamp-wise. Now's the chance to display your knowledge and educate me.
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Guest bryantee
In Italy, headlights are required on the autostrada at all times.Most other countries headlights in rain and fog with reductions in speed.Signposted.Nordic countries every where ,at all times ( I Think) Interesting one this. Will you remember to put your side lights on when reversing out of your parking spot or doing a three point in the super market car park? My park boy!!! is wired to the reverse light switch and works fine.
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Yeh its going to come in here - side lights on all the time you are driving However reversing on your own drive, on a site, you dont have to have sidelights on but you do want the reversing camera opperating. I had a similar problem when I asked a garage to fit FOG lights to a new van. They wired them to come on with headlights I managed to get them to read the regulations for auxilliary lights - Fog lights can be opperated only in reduced visibility (fog or snow) and may be opperated with only side lights I had the same problem when it came to the first MOT The same people insisted on lowering the beam on the sopt lights - Which could only be used on main beam and I had set them parallel to the road - Just reset them after the test
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In France it's a voluntary scheme for the moment. It was first tried out in the 'Landes' department over a two year period and lives were saved it's claimed. Now that it's gone nationwide around 50% of motorists light up all the time. Extra fuel is consumed as there's a bigger use of the battery, though I don't understand why this should put up fuel consumption, but apparently it does.. Motorcyclists are up in arms because they say motorists can't spot them so easily if everyone has their lights on (before, it was just two wheelers that lit up all the time). I only light up when I think it's necessary ie when it's raining and at dusk and dawn.
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Guest Will Redfearn Wirral Motorhome Club
It causes increased fuel consumption as the alternator experiences added resistance and thus the engine has to work a little bit harder. The more electrical items you have, inc. air con, adds to this effect. Daytime lights are compulsory in ALL Scandanavian Countries
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Derek, As said above,its currently an experimental scheme in France at the moment, however, on my travels there in January, in typical gallic fashion, most french drivers were ingoring it and travelling without lights as normal. As regards the issue of the excess load that 'always on' headlights will have on the battery, hella are introducing a low wattage headlamp system for this very purpose, download this pdf file at http://www.hella-online.de/pdf/montage_tgfl_klarglas.pdf These are to be fitted in addition to normal headlights and for use in daylight only. Information coutesy of this link; http://www.motorhomefacts.com/postlite4571-.html pete.
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It's interesting that Bryantee says that headlights are required full-time on Italy's autostradas. Travelling in Italy, there is no evidence that this is so, either in signage or usage. Headlights are mandatory in all Italian tunnels and SOME drivers leave their lights on as in the alpine region there are a hell of a lot of tunnels. Reversing cameras - mine has a three wire connection +12V, earth, and reversing light circuit. There is an on/off switch on the monitor that allows you to switch it on (or off) whenever you want but, regardless of the switch position, when selecting reverse the monitor comes on. Regards Neal
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Guest Derek Uzzell
Thanks for the response. It seems to confirm what I believed - namely that there is currently no blanket rule in Europe that all moving vehicles must show lights at all times. PeteC: Unless you've got an inside-line into the Department for Transport, I shall assume your "going to come in here" comment is a prediction. (If you have got a reliable source, just say.) I won't be at all surprised if it does happen, though I'm sure the regulation would be headlamp-related as "side-lights" (or "position-lamps" as they now appear to be termed) are useless in daylight. Tony S: I remember reading about the French bikers demonstrating. I understood their point of view, but their reasoning seemed skewed as it clearly argued that a motorcyclist's life was more important than that of other road-users. I recall, at the time, saying to my wife that, if a daytime headlight-rule in France resulted in an overall annual road-deaths reduction, but the bikers' death-rate figure simultaneously quadrupled, the new law could still have been considered successful. Anyway, bikers know that governments don't give a fig about motorcyclists' well-being, so I expect the demo was an excuse for a good get-together. Regarding my original query, as the logic of connecting a reversing-camera system to a vehicle's sidelights seemed so flawed (unless you have the lights on at all times), I've replayed in my mind the NEC conversation and I believe I've solved the riddle. What was being 'sold' me was a wireless reversing-camera system and its primary selling point was its marvellous ease of installation. With this system, no cable is needed to link the rear-camera/transmitter with the front-monitor/receiver, but transmitter and receiver each still need an electrical power-supply. That's easy enough to arrange at the front of a motorhome as there are lots of handy ignition-fed supplies to which you can connect the monitor. But not so at the back where all you've normally got are the rear lights. Essentially, there is nothing convenient to connect the camera to if you want it to operate continuously unless you run a wire to God-knows-where (perhaps right to the front of the vehicle) which makes the whole concept a mite less attractive. So why not advise potential buyers to connect the camera to the rear sidelights and, if they quibble, tell them there's a Europe-wide law that sidelights must be on permanently while vehicles are being driven. Good wheeze, eh! Incidentally, is our odd UK dim-dip headlight system still mandatory on new RHD vehicles sold here? (For those unfamiliar with this, when you switch on the sidelights and the vehicle's ignition the headlight dipped-beam also comes on at a reduced output. It uses exactly the same amount of 'juice' though, unlike the Hella system mentioned above. And here's a couple more light-related statements I recently read (both were in letters to magazines) that I thought dubious and on which comments are invited. 1. (Caravan Club magazine) Continental headlights dip 'flat' (I assume this infers that the lowered beam pattern is symmetrical, like a fan.) Hence, whichever side of the road you drive, this flat-dip means the lights don't dazzle and that's why you never see masks or beam-deflectors on the headlamps of LHD vehicles temporarily entering the UK. 2. (Civil Service Motoring Association magazine) There's now a Euro-law that makes it illegal in the Euro-zone for a new vehicle to have more than one rear fog-light, and this light must be fitted on the vehicle's off-side. Does anyone know whether there is, in fact, a set of 'Euro Norms' covering vehicle lights, or are UK vehicles still governed by our Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989?
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Derek I can't confirm either of your points that you have read but they both leave me with a kind of self-satistified smugness! In a posting of a year ago or so about beam deflectors/masks I stated that I had read that new continental vehicles are fitted with downward dipping headlights, negating the need for deflectors. I suggested that owners of new european motorhomes sould check their headlight pattern to see if they needed to change to UK headlights or if they needed beam deflectors for continental travel. I also wondered whether new UK vehicles were fitted the same. I had a lengthy debate with another contributor on this forum late last year where I was expounding the safety virtues of only one rear fog light. I cited the fact that a lot of drivers remove the nearside bulb (myself included) where fog lights form part of the lamp cluster. This is both legal and satisfies the MOT test as the minimum requirement is one rear fog light on the offside of the vehicle. I wonder if this may qualify me for some sort of prize?!? Regards Neal
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Guest Derek Uzzell
Neal: I've just written to the Department for Transport for guidance on what makes a headlamp "approved" on an imported vehicle. Does the dipped-beam pattern have to meet technical criteria regarding shape? Or does "approval" only come when the headlamp is appropriately marked for UK left-hand traffic (ie. with an arrow)? I'll let the forum know when I get a reply. I'm very doubtful about this downward-only deflection thing, as all the importers of Fiat cab-based motorhomes I've spoken to have said that they had to swap the lights to meet UK regulations.
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Guest Roy Hamilton
I notice, in reply no. 8, that Docted refers to Dim-dip lights. We had these in the UK about 20 years ago in which when the side lights were on as parking lights the dipped head lights came on in a low wattage fashion when the engine was started. These were a "good idea" as they overcame the people who seem to think that something is wasting or costing them and travel in the gloom with sidelights only on. Even so called professionals seem to have this syndrome, large goods vehicles suddenly appear out of the mist with 2 lights about as much use as candles. The dim dip system, if my memory serves me right, was stopped by the europeans as they refused to make the mods during manufacture of their vehicles to make them legal here.
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Guest Derek Uzzell
Roy: You'll note that I also mentioned dim-dip in my follow-up (10) asking whether the system was still fitted to UK-marketed vehicles. Dim-dip was still in existence a lot more recently than 20 years ago as our mid-1995 VW Golf has it as did our late-1996 Ford Transit-based Herald. Just for interest's sake I'll ask the question separately.
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