You are logged in as a guest. 
  Home Forums Home  Search our Forums Search our Forums    Log in to the Forums Log in to the Forums  register Register on the Forums  

 Forums ->  Motorhomes -> Motorhome Matters
Jump to page : First 1 Last
Format:  Go
Ducato Engine Cam Belt
AuthorMessage
userP_Dodd
Posted: 6 April 2021 8:25 PM
Subject: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 


Just joined

Posts: 12

Location: 2016 Auto-Trail Frontier Delaware


When my 2016 motorhome had its vehicle service last year, there was a note on the paperwork saying that it would be due to have its engine cam belt replaced this year when it becomes 5 years old. I asked how much it would cost and they quoted £550.
The Motorhome has only done 18000 miles and is now due it’s 5 year service. I realise that it is a rubber belt that could deteriorate over time, but it hasn’t had much use. Are there any experts out there that can give me their opinion of whether this is necessary or not?
userGman
Posted: 6 April 2021 8:38 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Liking what I've found

Posts: 73
2525
Location: Kippax, West Yorkshire. CI carioca 694


Funny that, I've just booked mine in for a belt, pulley, and pump change
at my local garage next Monday., includes a new aux belt too, £585.00
Not cheap but cheaper than a new engine. circa £3500.
Existing belt has done less than 10k in five years. Better safe than skint.

Steve.
userTeamRienza
Posted: 6 April 2021 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Keeps coming back for more

Posts: 180
100252525
Location: Co Down. 2016 Hymer B598PL


My 2016 Hymer on a Fiat engine has 37,000 miles and has just recently had timing belt and supplementary belts, pulleys and water pump changed.

5 years which is the recommended time interval irrespective of miles. I also factored in that whilst the van is registered 2016, it was a 2015 model with a possible engine build of 2014. It only did 3,500 miles in 2020 so it was a no brainier for me.

I do, though tend to be a bit OCD about timing belts on all my vehicles, together with tyre condition and keeping mud from accumulating on the flange of the body panels where they meet the wheel arches.

Davy
userDickB
Posted: 6 April 2021 11:25 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Liking what I've found

Posts: 47
25
Location: W Sussex


I am happy to be proved wrong, but I understand that Ducato 2.3 engnes need only the cam belt to be changed and not any ancillaries. Some engines definitely need water pump etc to be changed with the cam belt, but apparently not this one?

Dick
userGman
Posted: 7 April 2021 12:14 AM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Liking what I've found

Posts: 73
2525
Location: Kippax, West Yorkshire. CI carioca 694


The price of a water pump against a new engine is peanuts,
can you afford a new engine against the cost of a new pump?
I certainly can't afford to take that risk.

Steve.
userTeamRienza
Posted: 7 April 2021 12:19 AM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Keeps coming back for more

Posts: 180
100252525
Location: Co Down. 2016 Hymer B598PL


My water pump had some distortion in its alignment and was making noise when inspected after removal. It was the original and had not been subjected to any adjustment in its 37,000 miles nor had the van been mistreated. It had in all previous years been serviced by the main Hymer agent in Ireland who are also a Fiat professional franchise.

This service was carried out by my local independent who services our 3 cars. Lockdown precluded a 100 mile cross border trip to the Hymer dealer. I also did not fancy a full service, timing belt change, habitation and damp check at main dealer prices.

It is possible that my pump was inherently faulty, but fortunately opting for the change revealed the weakness.

Davy
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 7 April 2021 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 


5000500050005000
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


DickB - 2021-04-06 11:25 PM

I am happy to be proved wrong, but I understand that Ducato 2.3 engnes need only the cam belt to be changed and not any ancillaries. Some engines definitely need water pump etc to be changed with the cam belt, but apparently not this one?

Dick

Historically, it was common practice when a timing-belt was being replaced to change the water-pump at the same time.

Unlike the timing-belt fitted to the 2.3litre motor used in Ducatos built from mid-2006 onwards, the water-pump is not ‘lifed’ by distance travelled or age and - in principle at least - the original pump could remain in place for the life of the Ducato vehicle.

Nick Fisher (euroserv) advised on Ducato timing-belt and water-pump replacement in this 2015 forum discussion.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/cambelt-change-how-often-and-when-/39227/

and this late-2019 thread also dealt with the subject.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ducato-Engine-Cam-Belt/57933/#M687079

In this very recent thread

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Service-and-habitation-check-/57919/

I highlighted the difference in cost between Fiat-branded parts and ‘pattern’ equivalents. In the two 2020 estimates I referred to the (VAT-inc) quoted price of the Fiat-branded water-pump was £184.50 and £65.78 for the non-Fiat-branded pump.

My understanding is that replacing the water-pump on the 2.3litre motor is not a quick task due to its inaccessibility. Consequently, when the timing-belt is being changed (and even if there’s no evidence of the water-pump being problematical) it could be argued that changing the pump too makes sense as the labour-charge alone for a later pump replacement would exceed the cost of a (pattern) pump being fitted when the timing-belt replacement work was done.
userNinian
Posted: 9 April 2021 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
A posting machine

Posts: 332
10010010025
Location: NI. Auto-trail Dakota. 2014


Hi, Just had this reply from my local Fiat Dealership in N. Ireland. Does the price seem excessive.

The timing belt comes as part of a kit (inc water pump, approximate cost £899-£949). We highly recommended replacing the full kit as the water pump moves when removing the Timing belt. This can cause a coolant leak which may require a new replacement water pump (and belt if contaminated).

I can replace the timing belt if you require, but you would need to sign a full disclaimer regarding any future coolant leak and any issue that it may have on the engine overheating.

Thanks.
userTeamRienza
Posted: 9 April 2021 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Keeps coming back for more

Posts: 180
100252525
Location: Co Down. 2016 Hymer B598PL


I am based in N. Ireland and had my belts, pump and pulleys etc replaced by a small local garage. Cost was £560. I also had a service completed which included greasing the ALKO rear axle, battery tests, brake fluid and headlight alignment which was £260 making a total of £820. They also replaced the large metal coolant pipe coming off the oil cooler which was showing signs of weep at a secondary joint on the metal.

It is a Hymer A class so not the most accessible engine to work at. I had until now had service, habitation and damp checks done by the main dealer to maintain warranties (2016 reg but 2015 model), however the thought of additional timing belt was giving me concerns over total cost. The decision to go local was made easier by the current movement restrictions.

Davy
userDeneb
Posted: 9 April 2021 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Pillar of the forums

Posts: 703
500100100
Location: Vantage Sol PVC


How on earth does the water pump move when replacing the timing belt unless it's mounting bolts are loosened or removed, which they shouldn't be for a simple belt change unless the intention from the outset is also to change the pump?

Fiat supply two timing belt kits, one including the water pump and one without. If it was considered absolutely necessary to replace the water pump at every timing belt change irrespective of its condition, why would they supply the option of a belt kit that doesn't include it?

I have just changed my timing belt at 4.5 years and 17,000 miles. I checked the water pump for signs of even the tiniest leak, roughness or play in its bearings, of which there were none, and decided to leave well alone. I will probably replace it at the next timing belt change as a matter of course, as it will then be 9-10 years old and by that time likely more prudent to do so.

I did not find the timing belt change a difficult job with the right tools, and completed it with the van on axle stands on my driveway. If the pump was to fail between this change and the next, I wouldn't consider it a major inconvenience to replace it, as I have dealt with plenty of more difficult and time consuming jobs, and I wouldn't consider it a major financial hit either. I paid £109.86 for a genuine Fiat timing belt kit (less water pump) and a further £109.77 for an aircon belt, auxiliary belt and aux pulleys (all of which are Dayco parts when you open the Fiat boxes anyway). But of course if you are paying main dealer labour charges then I suppose you could consider it prudent to replace the water pump as a matter of course if you are looking at £900 to £1400 (as I have seen quoted by some main dealers) a time for parts and labour!
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 9 April 2021 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 


5000500050005000
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Ninian - 2021-04-09 12:05 PM

Hi, Just had this reply from my local Fiat Dealership in N. Ireland. Does the price seem excessive?..

In this recent forum thread

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Service-and-habitation-check-/57919/

I said

In March 2020 I was given two estimates for a timing belt and water-pump change. One estimate was £854.54 (Fiat parts) and the other was £604.54 (pattern parts). The labour charge in both cases was £351. (All prices VAT inc)

The estimates were provided by a Fiat Professional agency, so if the ‘full kit’ you mentioned comprises all Fiat-branded parts your £899-£949 quote may well be par for the course. But if the kit includes some non-Fiat-branded parts, then the quote is high.
userDeneb
Posted: 9 April 2021 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Pillar of the forums

Posts: 703
500100100
Location: Vantage Sol PVC


Derek Uzzell - 2021-04-09 2:19 PM

The estimates were provided by a Fiat Professional agency, so if the ‘full kit’ you mentioned comprises all Fiat-branded parts your £899-£949 quote may well be par for the course. But if the kit includes some non-Fiat-branded parts, then the quote is high.

The question is though, what is a Fiat branded part? As with all other vehicle manufacturers, Fiat don't actually make these components, they are bought in from external suppliers who contract to produce them to the required specification.

As I mentioned above, the only Fiat branding on the timing belt kit (and the ancillary pulleys) is on the cardboard boxes that they are supplied in. Whilst Fiat may well have more than one supplier under contract (to provide some resilience in case of interruptions or other issues with a single supplier) the parts in the Fiat boxes obtained from my main dealer were all made by Dayco, as were the identical parts that I removed from my van and originally fitted at the Sevel plant during its manufacture.

Several years ago I went to a Ford dealer's parts counter to ask for a rear wheel bearing assembly for my Mondeo. On opening the FoMoCo box that was placed in front of me on the counter, I could see that the component was manufactured by GKN. Ford wanted slightly less than £200 for the part as I recall. I then popped into the local motor factors, coincidentally just across the road from the Ford dealer, and asked for the same part. They gave me an identical part made by GKN, but in a cardboard box with GKN printed on it instead of FoMoCo. It cost me about £80.

Admittedly there are some cheap pattern parts suppliers, some of whom may be cheap for a reason, as well as counterfeit products shipped mainly from the Far East, but if you stick to reputable brands from reputable businesses, there may be very little difference other than the packaging, and often the cost!
userDon636
Posted: 9 April 2021 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Lives on the forums

Posts: 566
5002525
Location: Darlington, 2014 Vantage Neo - 150 Comfortmatic


I had my timing belt changed last year with the van at six years old at a cost of £470 at my local Fiat dealership. They advised that it was not necessary to change the water pump at 21,000 miles as there was no sign of wear or leaks so I was happy to go along with that. Like Deneb I will probably get it changed with the next timing belt assuming I still have the van at around 11 years old.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 9 April 2021 3:21 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 


5000500050005000
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Deneb - 2021-04-09 2:42 PM

The question is though, what is a Fiat branded part?

A fair question...

All I can say is that, on the two estimates I mentioned, the expensive one had most of the Part Numbers beginning “FI” and the cheaper one had most of the Part Numbers beginning “ZP”. In both cases a couple of the parts (2 sealing gaskets) had a “FI” number and the more expensive estimate included “Paraflu” coolant (£46.92 VAT Inc) whereas the cheaper estimate just listed “Liquid coolant” (£14.66 VAT Inc)

Plainly there’s an element of trust that a service-centre won’t quote for genuine parts which are of "Original Equipment" (OE) quality standard and then use much cheaper ‘pattern’ parts, but if one service-centre quotes a very inexpensive price when others are quoting much more, it’s worth asking what the former will be doing and what parts will be used.

(I’m sure I remember someone on this forum once saying that, in Spain, they had had a 2nd-year 'full service' carried out on a 2-years-old Ducato motorhome and the overall cost was less than what I would have expected the cost of the parts and fluids alone would have been.)
userRoryboy
Posted: 9 April 2021 7:21 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Pops in from time to time

Posts: 90
252525


Just before lockdown the cambelt and water pump change on my Ducato engine was £215 for parts and £160 for labour + vat.

This was at a local Commercial Vehicle garage.

userHaybob
Posted: 10 April 2021 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Just joined

Posts: 10



Hi got my 2014, 2.3 Ducato timing belt, auxillary belt and water pump changed July 2020 - it had 17000 miles on the clock. Local dealer in East Yorkshire £436.77. Had one quote for over £1000! at a main dealers.
All working well so really pleased.

userrooster63
Posted: 11 April 2021 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Keeps coming back for more

Posts: 155
1002525


When I bought my 8 year old Ducato based van the dealer changed the timing belt and did the water pump as well.
userAtlowers
Posted: 11 April 2021 8:59 PM
Subject: RE: Ducato Engine Cam Belt
 
Just joined

Posts: 10



Had 2004 ducato belt timing and auxiliary belt plus new tensioner fitted last week at local garage. Vehicle 56k miles so had done as precaution because no history of previous change. They inspected water pump and reported that it was fine and no need to replace. Cost £330. Looking at these posts, feel it was a very competitive price.
Jump to page : First 1 Last
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread
Jump to forum :


(Delete all cookies set by this site)(Return to Homepage)

Any problems? Contact the administrator