Snowdop Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 My motorhome is based on a 2009 Ducato X250 2.3 litre. It runs very well and only has 15000 miles on it. In the 16 months we have owned it, we have put 4000 miles on it. It has 1 strange foible though which has the local Fiat professional dealer stumped. When the vehicle starts from cold, on occasion it will not rev for about 45 seconds. It starts fine, but puffs out smoke / condensation. Once it clears it runs fine. It doesn’t do it from hot nor does it always do it. I believe it is linked to moisture and is much more likely to do it when it has been raining or is very damp. I have fitted the scuttle drain which helps to shift the water away from the engine electrics and I now put a tarp over the cool engine to try to keep the water away from the electrics. There are no fault codes showing or stored and no other symptoms. The van returns 27mpg fully laden and it sailed through the emissions test on its last MOT. I wondered if there may be a failing sensor somewhere that is breaking down when it is damp. Fiat suggested I ran it until the engine management light came on so they could scan the computer for codes which I can do but I would rather fix the problem before it got to that stage!Anyone have any ideas?ThanksPete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Hello Pete, and welcome. The most likely cause of your problem, and the easiest to prove; is a faulty throttle body. The simple test for this is to remove the right hand pipe from the solenoid valve that is behind the little steel bracket below the windscreen. Proceed as follows....Start the engine and observe the fault. Switch off the engine. Open the bonnet and locate the solenoid valve. It has two air pipes attached to it and an electrical connector. Rolling the right hand pipe between your fingers, gently ease it off and leave it dangling.Start the engine again and if it runs normally and the throttle pedal works properly, you have isolated the problem to either the throttle body or the solenoid valve. In almost all cases a throttle body will be required and 50% of the time you will need a solenoid valve as well. In only 10% of cases is the valve alone responsible for the problem. Updated and vastly improved throttle bodies were introduced for 2009 but it is most likely that your vehicle was built in 2008 and has the old type unit fitted which has a tendency to stick or even break inside. If this is the case you will probably also need a converter cable because the later one has a different electrical connection. There are a couple of other things that it could be but this is by a massive margin the most likely. Let us know how you get on.Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowdop Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 Thanks Nick. This is really helpful and thank you for your detailed response. I will keep an eye on it and as soon as it does it again I will try your suggested test. If it needs a throttle body then is this a diy job or something that it needs to go to the dealer for? Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tringy Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Hi Pete, I have had to do this job in the past with nicks gidence, he's a magic man. I am handy with the spanner but the difficulties arise when bolts are sheared off and you have to drill and rethread. Luckily I did not have this problem but with the advice given by nick I used penatrating oil a week before I did the work. There is some postes about the job on the this site so do some research. Its not an impossible task it took me about a day but it saved me a lot of money thanks to nick and his very very good advice and guidance. Good luck. Regards tringy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 As long as you have a conventional Ducato cab and not an A class with a letterbox to work through, this is a 4.5 hour job if everything comes apart nicely. If problems are encountered with removing the front grille or panel behind it or if a screw(s) securing the TB to the manifold breaks; it can take 3 or 4 more hours and specialist tools may be required. I have done many of these and the time does vary enormously. I suggest that if you have the time and tools and are happy enough with broken stud drilling and re-threading; you could have a go but if your experience of such things is limited, you might want to leave it to someone with a suitably equipped workshop. If you get half way through the job and get stuck; it's to late to drive it to a garage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowdop Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 Thanks gents Sounds like a job for the garage in that case. I am happy wielding the spanner’s but don’t have access to stud drilling tools. Good tip re soaking the bolts in penetrating fluid. I do the injector bolts regularly so will add the throttle valve ones to my list. Nick, a long shot I know but do you take on external work like this or do you only manage your own fleet? My faith in the local Fiat professional dealer is limited to say the least. Unless anyone else has a good recommendation for a garage in Kent that could handle this type of work? Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Pete, I do maintain my own fleet and we do some external work. I have replaced TB's on many, many motorhomes owned by the good people of this site and some have made long journeys but my availability is very limited right now due to the illness of a colleague. If you need this doing within the next couple of months you might be better to find a local garage that can do it. Here is a hint.... Most Ambulance services are switched over to Fiat vehicles now and there are Iveco and Fiat agents all over the country that are becoming very familiar with Fiat Ducato's. My next move would be to find out where Kent Ambulance Service get their Fiats repaired and take it from there. Many Fiat Professional agents are glorified car dealers and they generally don't have a clue but the ones that are attached to Iveco truck or even DAF truck sites are much better and more reasonable. You may find a local BT fleet workshop that can help too; BT now run a lot of Fiats and their workshops are well regarded and will have a go at most jobs.I would be happy to look up your chassis number and give you a list of the parts that you will need if you decide to do this.If you can wait for a while and don't mind a very long day and possibly a night out in Leicester; I would be happy to look at it for you.Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowdop Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 Thanks Nick No busting hurry at the moment as it is behaving itself, but it is good to have a backup plan just in case. I will drop you a PM with the chassis number over the next couple of days if I may take you up on your kind offer. Thanks for the suggestions re garages. One of my old team is now in the ambulance service so I will give him a call to see what he can find out. Thanks once again for your help. Kind regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowdop Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 Having just returned from a trip to Wales, the motorhome was due a service and MOT. I spoke to the local Fiat Professional dealer who booked it in for me, carried out the MOT and service and changed the throttle body and wiring harness. The emissions after the throttle body change were halved and the throttle response is vastly improved. Only time will tell whether the starting issue is now resolved but I am hopeful. The only downside is the £1100 bill, but in the scheme of things it isn’t all that much money compared to the investment in the motorhome itself. The dealer showed me the unit they had removed. It looked quite corroded on the outside and very black and gungy on the inside neither of which will have been helping matters. Hopefully the work I have done on stopping the water dropping onto the engine may help keep this problem from reoccurring in the future. Thanks again to Nick at Euroserv for his help and suggestions to get this problem fixed. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowdop Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 Hi all I thought it worth updating this thread with progress, especially since Nick was so generous with his help. A quick recap on the problem. The Ducato (2009 2.3 X250) would start but wouldn’t rev for around a minute. No fault lights were shown and no fault codes stored. The local garage and the Fiat Professional dealer were at a loss. The following were tried and whilst they improved matters to some extent the core problem was still there. 1. Additional drain holes in the windscreen scuttle to help clear the water. 2. Cleaning and sealing all electrical contacts under the bonnet. 3. Fitting a drain under the bonnet to divert water away from the vacuum solenoid. 4. Fitting additional engine and gearbox earth straps. 5. Covering the engine and fusebox whilst parked. 6. Properly sealing the central joint in the windscreen scuttle. Nick suggested that changing the throttle body, it’s wiring harness and the EGR vacuum solenoid valve would cure the problem and I am pleased to say that since this work was done the issue has disappeared. The fuel economy has increased by around 2mpg and is currently hovering just below 30mpg. The van is transformed. It now happily pulls in all gears and whilst I have not measured the improvement in acceleration there is no doubt that the 0 to 60 time is now much, much better. There is no smoke at all from the exhaust and the tail pipe is now no longer sooty. OK so the fix wasn’t cheap and I probably could have left it, but I like my vehicles to work properly and I believe that if they are looked after then they will look after you. So if you have similar problems (and I have read many cases where people have reported the same issues) then hopefully this thread may help you get them resolved. Once again a big thanks to Nick at Euroserv for his help on this one. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Thanks for the kind words, i am glad i could be of assistance. Your observations regarding throttle response and improved fuel economy are similar to my many of the owners that i have done this work for and my own. Although this is never a cheap job to do, it is very gratifying that it leads to an enhanced driving experience and this softens the blow considerably. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark heffernan Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Hi my motorhome is allways flat when i come to start it i jumped it today left it running then noticed it went to idling mode no throttle so i stopped tried to start seems plenty of life in battery then it said check engihne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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