aandy Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Apologies for what is probably a stupid question but although I am pretty well versed in the workings of older vehicles, modern ones are a complete mystery. The coolant level in my 2013 2.3 27,000 mile Ducato dropped to around half way between maximum and minimum. I can find no trace of a leak and there is no indication of emulsification on the dipstick or the oil filler cap. I had always understood that the cooling systems on modern vehicles are effectively sealed and do not lose coolant through evaporation, though the relevant section of the handbook seems to suggest that needing to top it up is not unusual or a cause for concern. I've brought it back to level and it hasn't moved since, but I've only done about 30 miles so far. Can anyone tell me whether I should be concerned, or do they need the occasional top-up? If there is a leak it will eventually get worse and become traceable but I'm slightly concerned that it could be the water pump, and we all know what can happen when they fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Hi we have a 2012 Elddis on the Boxer 130 engine. If it's a similar layout of the cooling hoses, on the right hand side when looking under the bonnet there are two small about 35 mm. The protective braiding on the upper one had chaffed trough the lower one. The very very tiny pinhole only leaked when underway and was difficult to spot. In the five years prior to the leak no coolant was added 35,000 miles in the years since repair no coolant added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyder Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 I had the same issue for a while and just added some Radweld, all sorted now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Our new Niesmann and Bischoff has this problem. I have topped up the coolant and it has settled mid way between the max and min points. However, there is evidence of a leak. Iveco have confirmed that the system is sealed and as a result, we are taking it for a leak check, and hopefully a fix under guarantee, tomorrow in Croydon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I had a head gasket fail (on a Toyota) and was losing cooling liquid as a result of over pressure on the release valve. It was very hard to see at first as it evaporated immediately from the hot engine while driving, no puddles or any other trace when the car was parked and engine cold/warm. Eventually I found the leak by checking with the engine still hot and actively losing fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 At six years old you would be coming up to a cam belt change, and a water pump replacement is much easier, and cheaper, as part of the same work. The first sign is drips from the housing, and dropping coolant level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Billggski - 2019-04-02 2:20 PM At six years old you would be coming up to a cam belt change, and a water pump replacement is much easier, and cheaper, as part of the same work. The first sign is drips from the housing, and dropping coolant level. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 Thanks for the replies. Had the cambelt changed 18 months ago, but if there is any doubt at all about the pump I'll have it done again. Van is in for a service tomorrow so hopefully they'll find the leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laika.brian Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I would suggest that mark the level on the expansion tank with a marker and keep a check on it, while these systems are closed/sealed..... and will not require refilling like older systems , each will find a level, coolant will expand contract evaporate so over time the levels will drop some what. In your post you state half way between min and max which is still in the correct range. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Hello Campers. The Fiat 2.3 cooling system pressurises as do most engines and if the coolant level is higher than half way between min and max, some will normally be blown out via the overflow. Therefore it is not worth trying to keep the level any higher than this. If the level drops to anywhere near the minimum, the most common cause will be a minor weeping from the lower nearside of the radiator. It is a weakness on original and after-market radiators and will get gradually worse but is unlikely to suddenly give up and leave you stranded. Modern latex coolant sealers will help but not solve the problem. Eventually you will need a new radiator. At this time, you must get the operation of the cooling fans checked because this too is a Ducato weakness. I have had several radiators changed under warranty and many, many more have been replaced after 3 years has passed. You can often see the signs using a torch from above but a look from underneath would be better. The signs are either obvious coolant or staining on the fins. We have seen some leaks from the factory connections on the heater matrix pipes over the top of the engine. This affects Euro5 vehicles more than Euro4 and will require new pipes if there is any signs of leakage. Just replacing the factory bands with jubilee clips will not solve the problem because the pipes become deformed. The heater matrix is much stronger than the older Ducato's (prior to 2006) but these can and still do fail in time. If you have coolant loss and experience misting on the interior glass of the cab, which may be accompanied by a smell of coolant, you may have a leaking heater matrix. The coolant leaks out and runs behind the dashboard and under the cab floor mouldings so it is not often visible until it has become a serious problem. You can check for leaks by lifting the battery cover or removing the plastic cowl in the middle of the floor under the dash that covers the air bag control unit and gear selector cables. Replacing the matrix is a major job and on 2011 onwards vehicles will require a complete heater unit because unlike earlier vehicles (up to 2011) the heat exchanger is not sold separately. And now you know! N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 flyboyprowler - 2019-04-02 1:34 PM Our new Niesmann and Bischoff has this problem. I have topped up the coolant and it has settled mid way between the max and min points. However, there is evidence of a leak. Iveco have confirmed that the system is sealed and as a result, we are taking it for a leak check, and hopefully a fix under guarantee, tomorrow in Croydon. Just an update on the above. The leak was traced to a T piece having been fitted by Niesmann as part of the conversion. The pipe used was not an Iveco part, and as such was not able to be fixed under guarantee. The pipe fitted was a little too short, and had not been cut square. The new pipe is in, and hopefully that will be the end of this problem. Now need to claim the £318 back from Niesmann!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 Just had the van serviced and the garage could find no evidence of a leak. In light of Nick's helpful response it seems I've probably got nothing to worry about, but I'm slightly uneasy because while I can't say for certain that the level has previously remained close to the max I would have thought I'd have noticed sooner if it hadn't. To be absolutely certain I'd like to tape a small plastic bag over the end of the overflow to confirm that that is where the water is going, but I can't find it. Would be grateful to anyone who can tell me where to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I think you are worrying unnecessarily - Mine sits about mid-way, and I have put a drop in after an overseas visit to hotter climes If you had last viewed the level after a run and the engine was up to temperature, it might well be up around the max, but I'm sure as the engine cools and the ambient temperature drops you'll find it back around mid-way the following morning! Ironically, filling it to max when cold may actually over pressure the system once you get to operating temp. If you are really concerned, mark the expansion tank when stone cold and monitor it after some use. Nick knows his stuff, I certainly would never question the validity of his comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 globebuster - 2019-04-07 12:47 PM I think you are worrying unnecessarily - Nick knows his stuff, I certainly would never question the validity of his comments. I'm sure I am and I'm not doubting Nick's expertise, but I can't avoid the nagging thought that if it had previously sat where it is now I'd have noticed sooner. The problem is that when checking the oil I know exactly where on the dipstick the level lies (if only because it is so difficult to get any proper reading), whereas I simply glance at the coolant tank and note that it appears OK without registering precisely where the level sits. A bit like looking at an analogue watch, you register the time by the position of the hands without actually thinking about minutes and hours. While it struck me as low this time, I can't say for sure that it is significantly lower than previously. I've even considered having the water pump changed purely as a precautionary measure, but I realise that is an over reaction and probably bordering on OCD. I'll just grit my teeth for the next few hundred miles and keep an eye on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Shortly after getting our MH a small water loss was noted and from where could not been seen from the top of the engine. However from beneath, dry stains of coolant could could be seen on parts at the back of the engine which gave a good idea where the leak originated. A crimped on hose to the heater box was badly fitted, probably from new and afer many years the distorted hose decided to leak. Easily fixed. Have a look underneath your engine. HTH B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 Thought it worth posting an update in case anyone else might have similar concerns. Having covered 2,000 miles since my original post, the coolant level has stayed exactly half way between the max and min marks, exactly as Nick said it would. I'm still puzzled as to why it took some 25,000 miles before the level dropped, but presumably there is a pressure valve or something similar in the system that gets a bit tired with time. Either way, all appears to be well so I'm not going looking for problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazy Baby Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Our 2013 Laika 595R was losing water out of the radiator for 12 months and we could not find a leak. Finally it got much worse and showed itself as the radiator's lower corner leaking as Nick has said. We obviously had to have the radiator replaced at 37,000 mile on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 I've just replaced my radiator at 4yrs/49,000miles due to the fault that Nick mentions i.e. weeping from the lower corner staining the fins. We discovered the leak while in Portugal and the 3500 miles back home only consumed c. 500ml of coolant although it was creating a small pool on top of the intercooler at the end of each day. The main dealer quoted £885 for the job (almost £500 for the rad!) but it was a straightforward DIY job using a pattern part from NRF costing £75. It was remarkable how easy the front bodywork came off to allow the rad to be lifted in/out - some good design features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 No matter when I first had the van how often I topped up my header tank it always levelled out at half way so I leave it there now and it just stays there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.