Steve928 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 An easy question I would think; none of my X250/290s have had the black box circled in red, but I see it quite often on under-bonnet pictures, so I'm just wondering what it is, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 Ooh, no answers yet.. Here it is again on a different van. 2 tubes (similar to the coolant overflow tubes from the expansion tank) and a strange white nylon thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23addy46 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Hy Steve928 - Unless the photo has been 'reversed' - doesn't the position of the scuttle drain hose (ie:- to the left of the circled item) suggest this as a LH drive Ducato then ? I agree to have never seen this item ? Dave Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Could it be a updated EGR solenoid valve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 It's the Warp Drive unit. That funny thing is the Flux Capacitor. Well, it sounds better than saying that I ain't got a clue mate. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 23addy46 - 2019-12-03 7:44 PM Hy Steve928 - Unless the photo has been 'reversed' - doesn't the position of the scuttle drain hose (ie:- to the left of the circled item) suggest this as a LH drive Ducato then ? I agree to have never seen this item ? Dave Adams No, standard RHD vans (bigger picture attached). This van has the Comfortmatic - anything to do with that I wonder..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 colin - 2019-12-03 7:51 PM Could it be a updated EGR solenoid valve? A possibilty, yes. The first van pictured is from 2017. I know I've seen this box a lot when looking around vans at dealers, just never gotten around to finding out what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 It is a "Vacuum Tank"; part of the emissions control system, and number 4 on the page here: https://www.fiatdalys.lt/en/catalog/parts/102/60/30/1/4Y/0/0/CC2.3/CMBDS/GSX/diesel-valve-pressure-guage-booster Shown in the photo here (but you'll have to translate from the Polish to get the detail) https://allegro.pl/oferta/zbiornik-podcisnienia-fiat-ducato-06-51758382-7845186866 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 They look to me a bit like vacuum pipes. Usually used for turbo waste gate or EGR. Most manufacturers use electric actuators for these now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 Excellent, thanks! Fiat part no. 51758382 - seems that although it's listed under anti-pollution system on that site it might be a brake servo vacuum tank? 'Brake power amplifier'. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Fiat-Amplifier-2005-2010-51758382/dp/B07FCPNKDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 If it is a brake booster/amplifier then that could explain why it's on some vans and not on others: for example it might come in with the 150 engine or the Maxi chassis (or both, which the pictured van is). Thanks for all the detective work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 This link https://fiat-pro.7zap.com/en/d06/2j/251fc7001830-099/102/60+10260s00+2-0/ suggests that Fiat Part Number 51758382 Vacuum Tank is applicable to Ducatos with the 150/160 motor. My 2015 LHD Ducato with Euro 5+ 150 motor has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Steve928 - 2019-12-03 9:02 PM If it is a brake booster/amplifier then that could explain why it's on some vans and not on others: for example it might come in with the 150 engine or the Maxi chassis (or both, which the pictured van is). Thanks for all the detective work. Since the the X250 was introduced in 2006, if the vehicle has the Electronic Stability Program (ESP) system, an integral part of ESP is Brake Assist, described in a 2009 Ducato Owner Handbook as follows: BRAKE ASSIST (integrated ESP emergency braking assistance) (for versions/markets where provided) This system (which cannot be switched off) recognises emergency braking (according to the speed of operation of the brake pedal) and provides additional hydraulic braking pressure to support that applied by the driver. This allows faster and more powerful operation of the braking system. I can’t confirm that the mysterious ‘Vacuum Tank’ is fitted only to Ducatos that have ESP (and consequently Brake Assist) but as the Amazon advert refers to the part as "Original Fiat Vacuum Tank for Brake Power Amplifier”, it would seem to be a reasonable hypothesis. ESP was an option on Ducatos until the X290 was introduced in mid-2014. Fiat advertised X290 vehicles as having ESP (or ESC - Electronic Stability Control - as it was now called) as standard, but ESC was definitely not standard for X290-based motorhomes. ESC was discussed in these 2014 forum threads https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Daytime-Running-Lights/35707/31/#M433032 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Latest-Fiat-Ducato-X290-Standard-specification-/36108/ I specified that my Ducato-based Rapido motorhome should have ESC and Traction+ when I ordered the vehicle and (as I said above) my motorhome has the vacuum tank. A Ducato with an ASR or a Traction+ button on its dashboard should have ESC and (if my hypothesis is valid) should also have the 51758382 vacuum tank under the bonnet. And vice versa - no ASR or Traction+ dashboard button = no vacuum tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 It's an additional vacuum tank for the EGR system. On a signal from the engine ECU, the EGR solenoid valve connects the EGR circuit to the brake servo vacuum circuit. The vacuum is regulated by the ECU and operates the EGR valve allowing a proportion of exhaust gases to flow into the intake manifold. My diagram shows a vacuum tank inline between the brake servo unit and the EGR solenoid valve on all models, although I'm not sure where that tank is located on the vehicle. The part in question is shown as being fitted in the vacuum circuit between the main vacuum tank and the valve, and is marked "vacuum additional tank - only for vehicles with 146HP engine". Why that engine requires an additional vacuum tank I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 If the vacuum tank were only fitted to Ducatos with the 2.3litre 146HP motor, then any Ducato built before 2011 (when that Euro 5 motor was introduced) should not have it. On-line references indicate that Fiat part number 51758382 is fitted not just to Ducatos, but to certain other Fiat Group models. This Polish advert http://zamowienia.idbj.pl/start.asp?WCU=~TVc1NTE4Nzc0OCpGSUFU mentions Fiat Croma, Grande Punto 1.9 jtd, Alfa Romeo 159, Brera, Spider 1.9, 2.4 jtd and Ducato, Boxer, Jumper 3.0 jtd, hdi. The Iveco part number evidently is 42556637 and this ebay advert calls the item an “air bottle for EGR”. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IVECO-DAILY-2010-NEW-OEM-42556637-AIR-BOTTLE-FOR-EGR-0000164611-/302864469898 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 This is the Iveco schematic diagram, for the EGR system on the 2.3 multijet F1A euro5 engine (the same engine used in the Ducato 150PS versions). 13 is the EGR solenoid valve, 14 the additional vacuum tank, 15 is the brake servo and 16 is the main EGR vacuum tank. Possibly the variable vane turbocharger is the reason for it, as the VVT is only fitted to the higher output engine and as can be seen from the diagram, the other side of the solenoid valve links directly to the turbo body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 I notice that, in the Ducato Owner Handbooks, the additional vacuum tank does not appear in drawings of the under-bonnet area until Euro 5+ (X290) models were introduced, and the tank is then shown on the drawing relating to the 180 3.0litre motor (which did have a VVT) as well as in the drawing that refers to 110, 130 and 150 2.3litre motors. The additional vacuum tank is also shown in the drawing relating to Ducatos with Euro 6b motors, where the drawing’s heading says that it relates to "2.3 130 Multijet 2 - 130 with AdBlue - 150 Multijet 2 - 180 Multijet 2 Power versions”, but I don’t think that the 130 MJ 2 had a VVT. Obviously those drawings are ‘generalised’ and it might well be that the motors that don’t have a VVT won’t have the additional vacuum tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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