Brian Kirby Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 A while before Christmas I reversed onto a low wooden post and mangled the above. I now have the replacement part. I had thought this merely slotted behind the rear wheel arch extension trim, but there are three lugs with fixing holes which are concealed behind that part, so I shall also need to remove, or loosen, that part to get at the fixings. So, question, does anyone how is that part fixed? The vehicle is a PVC on a 2017 2.3L, 130 PS, LHD, LWB, LH2 (6.0 metres long x 2.534 metres tall) Fiat Ducato X290 Maxi. The rear light also needs to be removed, but although made difficult by the conversion, I know how to get at that. The actual damage is limited to the plastic bumper corner moulding itself, and the rest of the fixings are relatively obvious. I can find endless sources for the part, but can find no fitting instructions online. Can anyone point me in the right direction please? Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I went onto YouTube and typed in “Replace Fiat Ducato rear bumper” and up came a video of a guy explaining how to replace the rear quarter plastic moulding on a Citroen Relay, which is essentially the same van. He just explained the process but did not show you how to do it. It involves removing the rear light cluster and the rear plastic side panel behind the wheel arch to expose some fixing screws. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I haven't got a PVC to go out and check, Brian, but the part looks like a screw/bolt-on fit to me. From pictures, the lugs through which the bolts are passed look relatively obvious (more than just the one screw position shown in the diagram)...... .....BUT ....from the parts catalogue, it also appears that several of the bolts/screws are under the next portion round of side-trim, which would mean that this would also need to be removed first to provide access, and then refitted last. See attachment. On the "Coastal Motorhomes" site, there is a picture of the rear of at least one variant of this latter part, and it would appear that this is probably also bolted/screwed to the bodywork (at the bottom and in the wheel-arch), but it also looks as though it has a number of "trim clips" in the central part, which would engage in locations in the bodywork behind, and would require careful manoeuvring to release them. (It may not be the part for your specific vehicle, but all variants are similar) https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/fiat-ducato-peugeot-boxer-citroen-relay-left-trim-moulding-06-on-735491686.html (The picture in the second thumbnail at the bottom) Edited to add: Don's youtube video is here: ...and the advice therein to buy some spare trim clip seems sound (though you could always research a source and subsequently buy as many as you need once removed/broken). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 .......You weren't "testing your eyesight" were you, Brian?....... B-) There are other suppliers, but this listing shows the specific clip required: https://www.vehicleclips.co.uk/fiat-ducato-exterior-side-moulding-rub-bumpstrip-lower-door-trim-clips-71728806/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 The guy on the video I found mentioned these clips and showed one of them as he was explaining the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 Thank you both. Excellent! I hadn't though of YouTube. Durrr!:-S No Bob, not testing my eyesight, just reversing into my own blindspot! The post was round, the light was good but no sun/shadows, the ground was mostly brown, and I was reversing on full left lock which, being LHD, meant the passenger door mirror didn't show the post, and because it was a brown post top against a brown background, it didn't show on the reversing camera either. The really annoying thing is I knew the posts were there, and was watching the others but still didn't see that one. The van just checked as though I'd run onto a bit of soft, which as it happened, I had. However, fortunately, the only casualty is the corned moulding. Lesson learnt! I'm not going to attack it until the weather improves. Thanks also for the clips, which I see I can also get under that part number from Amazon. Now all I need is a suitable clip pry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 The trim clips are pretty widely available, eBay, Amazon, etc. but best to buy ones specified for the Ducato as they will have the correct clearance.. I'd be inclined to have the screws out and see just how much space you've got to manoeuvre a trim remover. It's likely to define the size and shape you need (There'll be some play in the trim, but it's quite stiff plastic). Again, eBay or Amazon could be your friend. (You might just try pulling the trim off, but there is always a chance of dragging the clip through the plastic, which isn't good for refitting ;-) ) As I say, I've no longer a PVC to go out and check, but I wonder whether the clips go into a closed box-section, or whether it is single skinned and accessible from behind (possibly by removal of the wheel-arch liner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJM Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 £12 will get you 1k on ebay,, different sizes and you’ll have some for next time *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Do these help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 Many thanks indeed Deneb. That is positively the D's Bs! :-D Just one last question. I can readily source the fixing buttons thanks to Robinhood. I have looked at many variations of the referenced "special tool" at 2a for releasing these, and most seem to be aimed at releasing interior trim. Do you happen to know which of those available would be the most appropriate? It seems to need a broad wedge for insertion, with a fishtail cut-out to help release the buttons. Many have that shape, but I've no idea whether they are the right size for these buttons. Many thanks again. Great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 I'm not sure on the type of clips used, as I've never had to take the bumper panel off, but assuming that they are the ones referenced by Robinhood, a series of careful but firm pulls in the area where each clip is indicated to be on the diagram will either release the clip from the bumper moulding, leaving it still in the underlying structural panel, or pull the clip out with the bumper panel (although in my experience with those clips the former outcome is more likely). I have a set of trim removal tools that I bought fairly cheaply at an autojumble, but you can almost certainly find similar on eBay and the like. If they are the clips suggested by Robinhood, and you can get behind them, either from below or by removing the wheelarch liner, you can probably push them out without too much effort by compressing the nose of the clip with pliers and levering the other side with a wide flat blade such as a large flat bladed screwdriver if necessary. I've done similar with those exact same clips when removing Ducato door cards. I have to admit whenever I do similar jobs, I find pulling the panel off of the clips preferable to trying to release them with a trim tool between the panel and the metalwork behind, as no matter how careful you are, it always seems to result in marking the plastic panel or scratching the paint on the metalwork. Worth getting a pack of replacement clips, once you've confirmed the type they are, as they're not expensive and one or more of the existing ones usually end up being damaged in the removal process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Brian, (posted in parallel with Deneb) the clips are exactly the same basic design as those used for interior trim, door cards, etc. There are just differing sizes and design details. Even carefully removed they quite often don't lend themselves to re-use as they can lose their grip somewhat. (They're really only designed for one-time use, hence the advice to have a source of replacements ready). The reason for using a trim removal tool is that, particularly with (fairly flimsy) door cards, etc. the location in the piece of trim is often less robust than the location into which it is clipped. Careless removal can then pull the clip through the mounting point in the trim itself, making it difficult/impossible to re-use the trim (as the clip point is damaged). I'm not sure that this will apply in this case, as the clips appear to be mounted in dedicated slots moulded to the back of the side trim, These may be robust enough to allow you to pull the trim off (with a lever near to the clip points If necessary, and, I think, starting from the bottom.). You might break the head off a clip or two, but once the trim is removed, extracting a stranded clip from the bodywork is easy. I have some concerns about the practicality of a removal tool, since (and I don't have a vehicle I can check) the shape of the moulding looks like it would be difficult to insert such a tool flat (there appears to be a tumblehome preventing that at each side). I'd certainly first investigate whether the clips are accessible from the rear (wheel arch liner out?). Squeeze and push with pliers should work if they are. Noting the caveat about such above, for a removal tool you want something not too bendy, of a length that will allow you to reach the top clips from below without bending the trim too much, with a "V" cutout at the end, tapered thin enough to fit between the collar of the clip and the bodywork (where the rubber seal is on the example I posted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 The type of clips shown in the image usually slide into a slotted moulding on the back of the panel before being pushed into place when fitting. The "wings" on the clips themselves are much softer and more flexible than the mouldings on the panel that they retain, so carefully but forcibly pulling the panel causes the wings on the clips to bend and release from the slots. Once you have released the panel from a couple on one side, its easier to see the location of the others and apply pressure to/support the panel accordingly. I've never damaged a panel I was removing in that way, but the clips are more often than not sacrificial! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 Apologies Bob and Deneb for the late response. You were both so quick with your replies I didn't pick up on them until this morning! My concern regarding removal of the panel was the danger of the clip head ripping out its restraints around the slot on the panel, potentially necessitating a replacement panel. Bob describes beautifully what I think is the optimal tool for the job, together with what I think is the greatest potential downside to its use! The clips themselves are easily sourced, so I'll get enough for complete replacement and, based on Deneb's description of his experiences in removing such panels, proceed on that basis. I can always improvise if/where necessary as I progress if the going gets tough. It shouldn't be too bad, as the van is only three years old so both clips and panel should still retain reasonable flexibility. Thank you both again. Now I just need a spell of reasonably warm (for the plastic bits), settled weather! It seems that may be a week or three yet! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 I nearly posted again, Brian, as it occurred to me that the open ends of the slots on the back of the trim (into which the clips slot) were (from the Coastal Motorhomes picture) all arranged in the same horizontal direction. It provoked a thought that, instead of pulling off, the trim might be slid out (once the 5 screws are removed) in the direction of that open end, albeit with some force. Great idea, but unfortunately I think that would mean sliding it backwards (which would be inhibited by the shape of the moulding round the wheel arch). If the open ends had been the other end, I think it might have worked. Design, eh! Edited to add: Even if you do damage the trim removing it, it looks like the exposure (buying a replacement) is around the £40 mark, so not too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 Robinhood - 2021-01-24 12:39 PM I nearly posted again, Brian, as it occurred to me that the open ends of the slots on the back of the trim (into which the clips slot) were (from the Coastal Motorhomes picture) all arranged in the same horizontal direction. It provoked a thought that, instead of pulling off, the trim might be slid out (once the 5 screws are removed) in the direction of that open end, albeit with some force. Great idea, but unfortunately I think that would mean sliding it backwards (which would be inhibited by the shape of the moulding round the wheel arch). If the open ends had been the other end, I think it might have worked. Design, eh! Edited to add: Even if you do damage the trim removing it, it looks like the exposure (buying a replacement) is around the £40 mark, so not too bad. Thanks for the further thought, Bob, I hadn't noticed that. The panel I need is for the opposite (LHD passenger's) side but, fortunately, Coastal Motorhomes also show stock of that. The only snag to your ingenious wheeze seems to be that on close inspection some of the slots appear to be reversed, so that whereas a lot do share the same stop-end orientation, others have the opposite orientation! Bummer! :-S However, the pictures are not that high definition, so what appears to be stop-end may not actually perform that function. Definitely worth giving it a horizontal tug before trying to lever out the buttons! Too easy? :-D With any luck I'll manage to remove the panel with only a few buttons as casualties. I've already ordered a pack so that is in hand. I'll stick up a few pics when I come to do it. If it slides off we'll have to arrange another meet, when I can reward you with appropriate fluids. Dammit, I think you've earned that already! Don't know where Deneb hangs out, but if he's in the area we could even make it a threesome! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-01-26 4:06 PM If it slides off we'll have to arrange another meet, when I can reward you with appropriate fluids. Dammit, I think you've earned that already! Don't know where Deneb hangs out, but if he's in the area we could even make it a threesome! :-D I'm in Herts Brian, but you never know :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-01-26 4:06 PM we could even make it a threesome! :-D ....long time since I had an offer like that...... 8-) (...and though I haven't met Deneb, I have met you, Brian, so I think I might decline) ;-) (lol) (I don't think the horizontal pull idea will work) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 27, 2021 Author Share Posted January 27, 2021 Robinhood - 2021-01-27 10:59 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-01-26 4:06 PM we could even make it a threesome! :-D ....long time since I had an offer like that...... 8-) No Bob, not that kind of threesome, the van bed is miles too small! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 The removal of the corner moulding is considerably more complicated, than on my 2006 x244. On the x244, the rearlamp cluster retaining screws are external, and after removing the lamp unit all of the screws for the moulding are accessible. I suppose that the x250 arrangement does make it more tamperproof. The only problem that I encountered when fitting reversing sensors was with the upper bumper bolts. The problem was due to my IH TIO R having no rear doors. The replacement moulding restricted access. I had to resort to right angle wrenches, and a flexible hex bit driver. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Don't know if this helps, but I used this tool to remove the 'buttons' that hold down the internal trim panels. It worked fine, although I put new buttons in when sticking it all back together. https://amzn.to/3oP39lO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 Thanks Karen. This is an external trim piece, held in place by 10 "bottons", in three horizontal rows. This trim piece is inset into the side panel along its top edge, making the only feasible access to the buttons from the front, or bottom, edge. I don't think I'd be able to insert that tool behind the trim and manipulate the "plier" action without damaging the trim piece itself. Thanks for the suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 Deneb - 2021-01-22 9:27 AM Do these help? Update. Job done. If anyone else finds themselves needing to do this job, a few comments on how it went. This should be relevant to either side of the van, left rear or right rear. Regarding the removal of the wing moulding between the rear wheel and the bumper "corner", to reinstall which push fit plastic "buttons" are used, make sure you have a stock of these to hand. See robinhood's two posts of 21 Jan above, and link to Coastal Motorhomes to see the panel and get a better idea of what waits in store, and his link to "VehicleClips,co", for the actual "buttons" required. The panel takes 9 clips, but I got 20 to be on the safe side, which turned out to be a good decision. They will break while removing the panel, and if, like me, you don't realise that all bar the upper 4 clips must be fitted into the panel slots with their oblong heads oriented with the long axis vertical, you'll break a few more when you realise your mistake and have to take it off again to turn the clips as described above.. The 4 upper clips locate into circular holes the the van side panel, but the remaining 5 all have slotted locating holes and unless the clips are oriented as above they don't engage with the sides of the slots. Regarding Deneb's helpful illustrated guides to removing/refitting the bumper corner and the wing moulding, the bumper corner is exactly as described. I've attached the instructions for both wing moulding and bumper corner due to references to the fixings. Regarding the bumper corner, the bolt 1a is a hex, all the others are Torx. Regarding the 5 wing moulding attachment there has been some revision, in that the fixings at 1a are now plastic clips, as is one of the 1b fixings. The remaining 1b fixings are posi head screws. These plastic clips look a bit like a Christmas tree and are flat. An rectangular plug is inserted into the head of the clip and up a slot in the "trunk". It is pushed up the "trunk" of the tree/clip which it expands, pushing out the branches to prevent removal. The two 1a clips on the trailing edge of the wheel arch can be reached within the wheel arch, and a small screwdriver inserted through the slotted "tree" trunk above the plug allows the plug to be pushed back down and removed with the aid of long nose pliers. The 1b clip is into a hollow section, so the head of the plug has to be "fished with a small screwdriver. I managed to retrieve all three intact, though a few as spares would have been preferable. All re-inserted satisfactorily. Not exactly a "fun" job, and the side panel is by far the most fiddly part, but all done now, so thanks to everyone for their suggestions and guidance, which made it far simpler and less prone to mishap than otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.