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E.U. Travel restrictions.
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userBarryd999
Posted: 1 August 2020 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 2:52 PM

Fifo - 2020-08-01 1:04 PM.................. I just can’t see elderly motorhomers being imprisioned, deported, fined heavily or refused entry for the heinous crime of wanting to travel, and spend money in the countries they travel to. I hope this rosy view of 2021 onwards doesn’t crumble but it is all that is keeping me going at the moment...……………….!

I wish you well with that! But, can you think of any other law that is waived on the basis that the offender is elderly and has a motor caravan and wants to travel in foreign lands and spend money? The actual penalties do not, as I understand it, extend to imprisonment. Just warnings for accidental minor infringements, fines, which can be quite severe for greater, and especially deliberate infringements, and for serial offences, banning from entry. Like it or not, it has to be taken seriously if you want to continue visiting without penalty.

These laws already exist, and have been applied to other third country visitors to the EU for years. It is just that through our membership of the EU we haven't been subject to them.

I can't see much likelihood of the 26 Schengen states, or the remaining non-Schengen EU states, negotiating among themselves to agree special measures for UK citizens who were never part of Schengen in the first place.

We aren't banned, we have simply excluded ourselves from the benefit of privileges we previously enjoyed, and will now become subject to the laws for third countries that we agreed while members.


We could always try the old "Do you know who I am?" statement. How's that worked out so far though?

When I researched this one guy did actually get thrown in jail for a couple of days for over staying, in the Netherlands I think. Dont know what the actual circumstances were. Fines were typically £800 to over £1000 from memory.
userFifo
Posted: 1 August 2020 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 2:52 PM

I wish you well with that! But, can you think of any other law that is waived on the basis that the offender is elderly and has a motor caravan and wants to travel in foreign lands and spend money ?....

...l.lThese laws already exist, and have been applied to other third country visitors to the EU for years. It is just that through our membership of the EU we haven't been subject to them.

I can't see much likelihood of the 26 Schengen states, or the remaining non-Schengen EU states, negotiating among themselves to agree special measures for UK citizens who were never part of Schengen in the first place.



No, you are right. If a member country wishes to exclude us they have both the right and the means to do so. I hope however that it will not come to that and extended visas will be available. Portugal have their Brelcome and Spain have made it clear that they wish to continue to receive long stay British over-winterers who, in significant numbers, ensure many campsites and associated businesses stay viable.

Many of us, knowingly or not, already bend the law when we stay in Spain or Portugal for more than 90 days over winter. I have not heard of anyone registering with the local authorities or being fined for not doing so but it is a requirement.
userjohnfromnorfolk
Posted: 1 August 2020 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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Fifo - 2020-08-01 3:14 PM

Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 2:52 PM

I wish you well with that! But, can you think of any other law that is waived on the basis that the offender is elderly and has a motor caravan and wants to travel in foreign lands and spend money ?....

...l.lThese laws already exist, and have been applied to other third country visitors to the EU for years. It is just that through our membership of the EU we haven't been subject to them.

I can't see much likelihood of the 26 Schengen states, or the remaining non-Schengen EU states, negotiating among themselves to agree special measures for UK citizens who were never part of Schengen in the first place.



No, you are right. If a member country wishes to exclude us they have both the right and the means to do so. I hope however that it will not come to that and extended visas will be available. Portugal have their Brelcome and Spain have made it clear that they wish to continue to receive long stay British over-winterers who, in significant numbers, ensure many campsites and associated businesses stay viable.

Many of us, knowingly or not, already bend the law when we stay in Spain or Portugal for more than 90 days over winter. I have not heard of anyone registering with the local authorities or being fined for not doing so but it is a requirement.


Sorry Fifo thats not quite right.
We've not been subject to the 90 day rule as our membership of the E.U. allows us unlimited stays.
It will not be the locals in Spain or Portugal who object to future overstays but the border controllers who electronically record your entry and departures.
userFifo
Posted: 1 August 2020 4:24 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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johnfromnorfolk - 2020-08-01 4:11 PM

Sorry Fifo thats not quite right.
We've not been subject to the 90 day rule as our membership of the E.U. allows us unlimited stays.
It will not be the locals in Spain or Portugal who object to future overstays but the border controllers who electronically record your entry and departures.


John, why then do the C&CC say that we should ? The instruction is on page 86 of the current Winter Sun brochure (2019/2020) and has been for many years. Ditto the C&MC but I haven’t got one of those handy. :

Quote
“ If you are planning to stay in Spain or Portugal for longer than 3 months you must register in person with the local authorities. Please check the following for the most up to date information.
( and they give links to the 2 relevant UK Gov websites)
Non- EU citizens should seek further advice from their relevant government service.”
End quote

I always understood that although we were EU members we were not Schengen members are that our stay was at the discretion of Spain or Portugal and not a right.

userjohnfromnorfolk
Posted: 1 August 2020 4:47 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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Fifo - 2020-08-01 4:24 PM

johnfromnorfolk - 2020-08-01 4:11 PM

Sorry Fifo thats not quite right.
We've not been subject to the 90 day rule as our membership of the E.U. allows us unlimited stays.
It will not be the locals in Spain or Portugal who object to future overstays but the border controllers who electronically record your entry and departures.


John, why then do the C&CC say that we should ? The instruction is on page 86 of the current Winter Sun brochure (2019/2020) and has been for many years. Ditto the C&MC but I haven’t got one of those handy. :

Quote
“ If you are planning to stay in Spain or Portugal for longer than 3 months you must register in person with the local authorities. Please check the following for the most up to date information.
( and they give links to the 2 relevant UK Gov websites)
Non- EU citizens should seek further advice from their relevant government service.”
End quote


ys understood that although we were EU members we were not Schengen members are that our stay was at the discretion of Spain or Portugal and not a right.


Thanks Fifo. You are telling me something I wasn't aware of.
I wonder how many long stay folk actually registered with the authorities.
It has been my understanding that like the Irish republic, although we are not in Schengen but members of the E.U. we are subject to an open border policy.
But that doesn't change the fact that after we leave the E.U. we will be facing restrictions on the amount of time we will be allowed to stay in the E.U.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 1 August 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Fifo - 2020-08-01 4:24 PM
johnfromnorfolk - 2020-08-01 4:11 PM
Sorry Fifo thats not quite right.
We've not been subject to the 90 day rule as our membership of the E.U. allows us unlimited stays.
It will not be the locals in Spain or Portugal who object to future overstays but the border controllers who electronically record your entry and departures.

John, why then do the C&CC say that we should ? The instruction is on page 86 of the current Winter Sun brochure (2019/2020) and has been for many years. Ditto the C&MC but I haven’t got one of those handy. :
Quote
“ If you are planning to stay in Spain or Portugal for longer than 3 months you must register in person with the local authorities. Please check the following for the most up to date information.
( and they give links to the 2 relevant UK Gov websites)
Non- EU citizens should seek further advice from their relevant government service.”
End quote
I always understood that although we were EU members we were not Schengen members are that our stay was at the discretion of Spain or Portugal and not a right.

That is merely advice to register, it is not a pre-condition for staying in excess of 90 days.

As members of the EU we had the right to stay indefinitely (providing we behaved ourselves!), but we were still required to observe the laws of the individual states when doing so.

In Italy, for example, it is normal for the local police to visit camp sites and hotels to check that they are maintaining the required records of who is staying. Different countries, different requirements, but all within the overall framework of the EU/Schengen requirements.
userBarryd999
Posted: 1 August 2020 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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I think the trouble will be at the borders. In the past we could and did roam from country to country for as long as we want totally legally. Yes I think there are individual limits on each country but for European citizens nobody takes any notice of them, your passports are not checked or stamped at internal borders but in future they will know when you arrive in Schengen and more importantly when you try and leave.

Of course if you overstay and wing it if you get pulled by the police, have an accident or some other incident you could well be in bother then also. There is the question of insurance. Will it be valid or not if you are in the country illegally?

Too many things to worry about I think to try and just assume it will be business as usual. Spanish plod are known for coming up with schemes to top up the coffers. this might be a nice little earner for them.

Edited by Barryd999 2020-08-01 5:02 PM
userFifo
Posted: 1 August 2020 5:33 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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This is part of the answer I got from the Spanish Embassy when I wrote to ask about winter holidays lasting longer than 3 months.

Quote

For the Government of Spain, the question relating to the preservation of the rights of those citizens who exercised their right to free movement before the withdrawal of the United Kingdom constitutes a priority and the contingency measures being drawn up seek to achieve this goal.

Unquote

Seems quite positive but we shall see. Right at the beginning of all this the Spanish government made it clear that they would do all they could to ensure British holiday makers- and they recognise that many are long-stayers- were welcome as usual.

The Foreign Office reply to my letter is basically the stock fudge letter which says nothing.

Edited by Fifo 2020-08-01 5:35 PM
userDeneb
Posted: 1 August 2020 5:41 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 4:58 PM

That is merely advice to register, it is not a pre-condition for staying in excess of 90 days.

As members of the EU we had the right to stay indefinitely (providing we behaved ourselves!), but we were still required to observe the laws of the individual states when doing so.

In Italy, for example, it is normal for the local police to visit camp sites and hotels to check that they are maintaining the required records of who is staying. Different countries, different requirements, but all within the overall framework of the EU/Schengen requirements.


Whilst the EU freedom of movement permits citizens of member states the freedom to travel between countries in the EU for an unlimited time, it is subject to conditions under Article 21 which include certain requirements if staying in any individual state for more than 90 days, such as having sufficient financial resources and comprehensive health insurance cover that they do not become a burden on that country. For that reason, anyone intending to continue to stay in an individual member state other then their own after 90 days should make their presence known to the authorities.

How or whether this is enforced in practice I have no idea, and because the freedom of movement with no internal border controls exists, it would I assume be very difficult to monitor.

Individual member states are free to implement their own laws as long as they are compatible with Article 21, so it may be (I'm guessing) that Portugal and Spain do have more formal legislation in place for that purpose.
userDeneb
Posted: 1 August 2020 5:45 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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Fifo - 2020-08-01 5:33 PM

This is part of the answer I got from the Spanish Embassy when I wrote to ask about winter holidays lasting longer than 3 months.

Quote

For the Government of Spain, the question relating to the preservation of the rights of those citizens who exercised their right to free movement before the withdrawal of the United Kingdom constitutes a priority and the contingency measures being drawn up seek to achieve this goal.

Unquote



But even if they do implement such measures, that will be fine for anyone travelling directly from the UK to Spain and returning by the same route. If you have to travel though any other EU member state as part of your journey you will still fall foul of the EU regulations at your point of entry to and exit from the EU, no matter what internal arrangements Spain may individually have with the UK.

A Hercules or SuperGuppy charter for your motorhome, perhaps

And don't forget that the Government of Spain recently sent a battleship into UK territorial waters around Gibraltar after we put them on a Covid blacklist, so they do also have other priorities not quite so amenable to our future fortunes

Edited by Deneb 2020-08-01 5:51 PM
userFifo
Posted: 1 August 2020 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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Deneb - 2020-08-01 5:45 PM

But even if they do implement such measures, that will be fine for anyone travelling directly from the UK to Spain and returning by the same route. If you have to travel though any other EU member state as part of your journey you will still fall foul of the EU regulations at your point of entry to and exit from the EU, no matter what internal arrangements Spain may individually have with the UK.

A Hercules or SuperGuppy charter for your motorhome, perhaps



Only once, in all the dozens of years we've been over-wintering in Spain, have we had to travel back via France. We always get the Portsmouth to Bilbao / Santander ferry and return. Same this year- already booked. We will not change, unless we have managed to get a long-stay visa for France for our Spring and Autumn trips. France in winter is often cold, wet and grey and, with water turned off in most aires, many campsites closed, high road tolls and ever-changing speed limits on N roads, it is best avoided !
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 1 August 2020 6:09 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Yes, but the decision does not lie with the Spanish government. Spain is in the EU, and also in Schengen, so will have to agree with both entities, and so the member states of each, what they will accept.

Spain already has the right, as I understand it, to issue visas for longer stays, but it will probably require the agreement of the other EU/Schengen states if Spain wants to change the rules by which it issues those visas, and wants its new visas to be accepted by those other states.

For motorhomers, for example, it will be beneficial if at least France accepts the Spanish visas, as otherwise anyone driving down will first be "booked" into Schengen at the French channel port of entry. If they then leave more than 90 days later via France they will show on ETIAS as having overstayed, and if they leave via a Spanish port there will have to be a facility for the Spanish border police to cancel the overstay that will otherwise be recorded on the ETIAS system.

Failing that, the remaining solution will be to take direct UK - Spain ferries where, presumably, the Spanish long-stay visa will take precedence over the 90 days Schengen limit and the passports will not be recorded on ETIAS, or will be recorded into a special category. But the visa holder will have to remain only in Spain.
userpelmetman
Posted: 1 August 2020 6:17 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 11:54 AM

pelmetman - 2020-08-01 11:40 AM...………...
How many people on this forum actually spend more than 90 days abroad? .........
I do, and the fact that we will have to travel back for Christmas, instead of doing it out of choice is not much of a consequence in my book ..........

We do, or at least we have up until now. But how will you fit in your 90 days, before Christmas, after Christmas, or either side of Christmas?


Surely a bright bloke like you can do the maths? .........

We plan to do a week at SIL gite to start our 180 days.....then return home for Crimbo as we have done for years except last Christmas .......

Then return to Brexit On Sea .........

Although to be fair .........

Chinky Flu has p*ssed on our plans .........

userpelmetman
Posted: 1 August 2020 6:23 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Deneb - 2020-08-01 5:45 PM

And don't forget that the Government of Spain recently sent a battleship into UK territorial waters around Gibraltar after we put them on a Covid blacklist, so they do also have other priorities not quite so amenable to our future fortunes


A Battleship???? ..........

Does the Spanish Navy have any battleships? ........

More importantly ........

Do they really want to p*ss off a quarter of their tourrist income? ........

Whilst recovering from a Pandemic? ...........

userFifo
Posted: 1 August 2020 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 6:09 PM

Yes, but the decision does not lie with the Spanish government. Spain is in the EU, and also in Schengen, so will have to agree with both entities, and so the member states of each, what they will accept.

Spain already has the right, as I understand it, to issue visas for longer stays, but it will probably require the agreement of the other EU/Schengen states if Spain wants to change the rules by which it issues those visas, and wants its new visas to be accepted by those other states.

.


That's the snag. We could already, for a modest sum, get a visa to enable us to stay in a Schengen country for the purposes of education, business, to work and for a few other reasons. Not one of those reasons includes having a long holiday there. What I would like to think is happening is that this " long holiday " visa is going to be included. If others who are interested, as I asked earlier, would write to the relevant authority and remind them of the need perhaps something might happen ?

Look otherwise like I might have to get a job or enrol for a post-doctoral degree or something. What I would not do to avoid a UK winter !

Edited by Fifo 2020-08-01 6:41 PM
userjohnfromnorfolk
Posted: 1 August 2020 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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pelmetman - 2020-08-01 6:23 PM

Deneb - 2020-08-01 5:45 PM

And don't forget that the Government of Spain recently sent a battleship into UK territorial waters around Gibraltar after we put them on a Covid blacklist, so they do also have other priorities not quite so amenable to our future fortunes


A Battleship???? ..........

Does the Spanish Navy have any battleships? ........

More importantly ........

Do they really want to p*ss off a quarter of their tourrist income? ........

Whilst recovering from a Pandemic? ...........


Do they really want to p*ss off a quarter of their tourrist income?
We motorhomers provide a quarter of Spains tourist income?
Really Pelmetman, you obviously went to Dom. Cummings school of statistics.
userpelmetman
Posted: 1 August 2020 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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johnfromnorfolk - 2020-08-01 8:51 PM

pelmetman - 2020-08-01 6:23 PM

Deneb - 2020-08-01 5:45 PM

And don't forget that the Government of Spain recently sent a battleship into UK territorial waters around Gibraltar after we put them on a Covid blacklist, so they do also have other priorities not quite so amenable to our future fortunes


A Battleship???? ..........

Does the Spanish Navy have any battleships? ........

More importantly ........

Do they really want to p*ss off a quarter of their tourrist income? ........

Whilst recovering from a Pandemic? ...........


Do they really want to p*ss off a quarter of their tourrist income?
We motorhomers provide a quarter of Spains tourist income?
Really Pelmetman, you obviously went to Dom. Cummings school of statistics.


When did "Tourists" only mean folk in Motorhomes? .........

userBarryd999
Posted: 1 August 2020 9:34 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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pelmetman - 2020-08-01 9:00 PM

johnfromnorfolk - 2020-08-01 8:51 PM

pelmetman - 2020-08-01 6:23 PM

Deneb - 2020-08-01 5:45 PM

And don't forget that the Government of Spain recently sent a battleship into UK territorial waters around Gibraltar after we put them on a Covid blacklist, so they do also have other priorities not quite so amenable to our future fortunes


A Battleship???? ..........

Does the Spanish Navy have any battleships? ........

More importantly ........

Do they really want to p*ss off a quarter of their tourrist income? ........

Whilst recovering from a Pandemic? ...........


Do they really want to p*ss off a quarter of their tourrist income?
We motorhomers provide a quarter of Spains tourist income?
Really Pelmetman, you obviously went to Dom. Cummings school of statistics.


When did "Tourists" only mean folk in Motorhomes? .........



Most tourists that go to Spain go for two weeks, Most tourists from everywhere go for two weeks. I know Spain has a fair few pensioners that like to go for a few months and a fair few motorhomers but I doubt they are on anyones radar. I wonder how much they put into the economy. Probably not that much judging by all the posts Ive seen about wilding on some scrappy bit of scrub land cheek to jowl and bargain Vino at a quid a litre or whatever.
userwitzend
Posted: 1 August 2020 11:10 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-08-01 9:34 PM
. I wonder how much they put into the economy. Probably not that much judging by all the posts Ive seen about wilding on some scrappy bit of scrub land cheek to jowl and bargain Vino at a quid a litre or whatever.




When you stop and look it's only a small number of people who really benefit from Tourists to the majority of the population were just a nuisance cluttering up their towns beaches and roads. I've seen many vans arrive on site for the winter some with trailers loaded down with food and other essentials to last them for several weeks

Edited by witzend 2020-08-01 11:14 PM
userJeffersonCampervan
Posted: 2 August 2020 1:10 AM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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hey guys - welcome to the Colonies! We Canadians (and others) have been dealing with all of this for many years. I wouldn't think of trifling with Schengen rules. Love traveling in Europe too much to risk being barred from future entry.
userjohnfromnorfolk
Posted: 2 August 2020 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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pelmetman - 2020-08-01 9:00 PM

johnfromnorfolk - 2020-08-01 8:51 PM

pelmetman - 2020-08-01 6:23 PM

Deneb - 2020-08-01 5:45 PM

And don't forget that the Government of Spain recently sent a battleship into UK territorial waters around Gibraltar after we put them on a Covid blacklist, so they do also have other priorities not quite so amenable to our future fortunes


A Battleship???? ..........

Does the Spanish Navy have any battleships? ........

More importantly ........

Do they really want to p*ss off a quarter of their tourrist income? ........

Whilst recovering from a Pandemic? ...........


Do they really want to p*ss off a quarter of their tourrist income?
We motorhomers provide a quarter of Spains tourist income?
Really Pelmetman, you obviously went to Dom. Cummings school of statistics.


When did "Tourists" only mean folk in Motorhomes? .........



Unfortunately motorhomers by comparison contribute a minuscule amount of cash to the Spanish tourist economy compared to the two weekers who flock to the Costa's and Balearics.
When the Spanish start demolishing hotels and replacing them with campsites we will know the situation has changed.
Sadly Pelmetman, it appears that due to Brexit that you enthusiastic support, for you and many others, your days of full timing are coming to an end.
Someone recently said "We must be the only country in the world that has voted to restrict our ability to travel".
As they say,"There's nowt as strange as folk".
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 2 August 2020 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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pelmetman - 2020-08-01 6:17 PM
Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 11:54 AM
pelmetman - 2020-08-01 11:40 AM...………...
How many people on this forum actually spend more than 90 days abroad? .........
I do, and the fact that we will have to travel back for Christmas, instead of doing it out of choice is not much of a consequence in my book ..........

We do, or at least we have up until now. But how will you fit in your 90 days, before Christmas, after Christmas, or either side of Christmas?

We plan to do a week at SIL gite to start our 180 days.....then return home for Crimbo as we have done for years except last Christmas .......
Then return to Brexit On Sea ..................

But, how long in total? 90 days?
userKeithl
Posted: 2 August 2020 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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pelmetman - 2020-08-01 6:17 PM

We plan to do a week at SIL gite to start our 180 days.....then return home for Crimbo as we have done for years except last Christmas .......

Then return to Brexit On Sea .........



Dave,

Two problems here, first there is no such thing as 'start our 180 days', it is a continually rolling period of 180 days. And second, the 'new' rules will only apply after 01/01/2021 so Christmas 2020 is before this date and will have no bearing on how long you can stay after 01/01/2021.

If you returned to Spain on 01/01/2021 you would have to return to the UK by 31/03/2021 and then not be able to go back until at least the beginning of July 2021.

Keith.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 2 August 2020 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Fifo - 2020-08-01 6:40 PM

Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 6:09 PM

Yes, but the decision does not lie with the Spanish government. Spain is in the EU, and also in Schengen, so will have to agree with both entities, and so the member states of each, what they will accept.

Spain already has the right, as I understand it, to issue visas for longer stays, but it will probably require the agreement of the other EU/Schengen states if Spain wants to change the rules by which it issues those visas, and wants its new visas to be accepted by those other states. .


That's the snag. We could already, for a modest sum, get a visa to enable us to stay in a Schengen country for the purposes of education, business, to work and for a few other reasons. Not one of those reasons includes having a long holiday there. What I would like to think is happening is that this " long holiday " visa is going to be included. If others who are interested, as I asked earlier, would write to the relevant authority and remind them of the need perhaps something might happen ?

Looks otherwise like I might have to get a job or enrol for a post-doctoral degree or something. What I would not do to avoid a UK winter !

The longest we have been in Schengen in any 180 day period is 150 days. The easiest fix would probably be to introduce an extension to the 90 days Schengen visa for people from designated countries (possibly those countries whose nationals do not need an actual visa, possibly against evidence of previous trouble free entries as for the multiple entry visas). Ideally, allowing 180 days in any 360 day period!
userBarryd999
Posted: 2 August 2020 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-08-02 11:20 AM

Fifo - 2020-08-01 6:40 PM

Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 6:09 PM

Yes, but the decision does not lie with the Spanish government. Spain is in the EU, and also in Schengen, so will have to agree with both entities, and so the member states of each, what they will accept.

Spain already has the right, as I understand it, to issue visas for longer stays, but it will probably require the agreement of the other EU/Schengen states if Spain wants to change the rules by which it issues those visas, and wants its new visas to be accepted by those other states. .


That's the snag. We could already, for a modest sum, get a visa to enable us to stay in a Schengen country for the purposes of education, business, to work and for a few other reasons. Not one of those reasons includes having a long holiday there. What I would like to think is happening is that this " long holiday " visa is going to be included. If others who are interested, as I asked earlier, would write to the relevant authority and remind them of the need perhaps something might happen ?

Looks otherwise like I might have to get a job or enrol for a post-doctoral degree or something. What I would not do to avoid a UK winter !

The longest we have been in Schengen in any 180 day period is 150 days. The easiest fix would probably be to introduce an extension to the 90 days Schengen visa for people from designated countries (possibly those countries whose nationals do not need an actual visa, possibly against evidence of previous trouble free entries as for the multiple entry visas). Ideally, allowing 180 days in any 360 day period!


That would suit me but I only foresee one problem. Nobody cares except us. A few hundred, maybe a few thousand motorhomers who like to meander like nomads from Aire to Aire or sit on the Costa del Ingleeesh Breakfast waiting for a bit of milky warm winter sunshine will be on nobody's radar as they try and struggle with the millions of real issues Brexit will have bestowed upon us and the rest of Europe.
userDeneb
Posted: 2 August 2020 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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Barryd999 - 2020-08-02 11:28 AM

That would suit me but I only foresee one problem. Nobody cares except us. A few hundred, maybe a few thousand motorhomers who like to meander like nomads from Aire to Aire or sit on the Costa del Ingleeesh Breakfast waiting for a bit of milky warm winter sunshine will be on nobody's radar as they try and struggle with the millions of real issues Brexit will have bestowed upon us and the rest of Europe.


The EU clearly care, hence the introduction of ETIAS as a measure to secure their borders and improve management of entry by other nationals.

And with that in mind, I quite agree with you. We voluntarily decided to remove ourselves from the EU, so we will be treated the same as any other non EU country. "We" apparently wanted to take back control of our own borders, but seem put out that other countries have the same right to control theirs. Why would they be minded to make a small number of UK tourists, or even the UK as a whole, a special case? What would prevent other non-EU countries from then also demanding similar treatment.

"We" voted for this, so why do people seem surprised?
userBarryd999
Posted: 2 August 2020 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Deneb - 2020-08-02 12:47 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-08-02 11:28 AM

That would suit me but I only foresee one problem. Nobody cares except us. A few hundred, maybe a few thousand motorhomers who like to meander like nomads from Aire to Aire or sit on the Costa del Ingleeesh Breakfast waiting for a bit of milky warm winter sunshine will be on nobody's radar as they try and struggle with the millions of real issues Brexit will have bestowed upon us and the rest of Europe.


The EU clearly care, hence the introduction of ETIAS as a measure to secure their borders and improve management of entry by other nationals.

And with that in mind, I quite agree with you. We voluntarily decided to remove ourselves from the EU, so we will be treated the same as any other non EU country. "We" apparently wanted to take back control of our own borders, but seem put out that other countries have the same right to control theirs. Why would they be minded to make a small number of UK tourists, or even the UK as a whole, a special case? What would prevent other non-EU countries from then also demanding similar treatment.

"We" voted for this, so why do people seem surprised?


Oh I agree entirely. I think it would be English (not British) exceptionalism that assumed none of the third country rules would apply to us. back in 2016 I remember most motorhomers by a large margin being pro Brexit on all the forums and they all said it was just project fear and would not apply to us. They dont seem to be saying that now though.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 3 August 2020 7:21 AM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-08-02 11:28 AM
Brian Kirby - 2020-08-02 11:20 AM
Fifo - 2020-08-01 6:40 PM
Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 6:09 PM
Yes, but the decision does not lie with the Spanish government. Spain is in the EU, and also in Schengen, so will have to agree with both entities, and so the member states of each, what they will accept.
Spain already has the right, as I understand it, to issue visas for longer stays, but it will probably require the agreement of the other EU/Schengen states if Spain wants to change the rules by which it issues those visas, and wants its new visas to be accepted by those other states. .

That's the snag. We could already, for a modest sum, get a visa to enable us to stay in a Schengen country for the purposes of education, business, to work and for a few other reasons. Not one of those reasons includes having a long holiday there. What I would like to think is happening is that this " long holiday " visa is going to be included. If others who are interested, as I asked earlier, would write to the relevant authority and remind them of the need perhaps something might happen ?
Looks otherwise like I might have to get a job or enrol for a post-doctoral degree or something. What I would not do to avoid a UK winter !

The longest we have been in Schengen in any 180 day period is 150 days. The easiest fix would probably be to introduce an extension to the 90 days Schengen visa for people from designated countries (possibly those countries whose nationals do not need an actual visa, possibly against evidence of previous trouble free entries as for the multiple entry visas). Ideally, allowing 180 days in any 360 day period!

That would suit me but I only foresee one problem. Nobody cares except us. A few hundred, maybe a few thousand motorhomers who like to meander like nomads from Aire to Aire or sit on the Costa del Ingleeesh Breakfast waiting for a bit of milky warm winter sunshine will be on nobody's radar as they try and struggle with the millions of real issues Brexit will have bestowed upon us and the rest of Europe.

That 180/360 day suggestion was just a bit of wishful thinking - with tongue firmly in cheek! I agree with both of you, fat chance - unless uncle Guy pulls a rabbit out of his hat. After all, nearly half the votes were remain, and about 13 million didn't vote. Courage, mes braves!
userjohnfromnorfolk
Posted: 3 August 2020 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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Brian Kirby - 2020-08-03 7:21 AM

Barryd999 - 2020-08-02 11:28 AM
Brian Kirby - 2020-08-02 11:20 AM
Fifo - 2020-08-01 6:40 PM
Brian Kirby - 2020-08-01 6:09 PM
Yes, but the decision does not lie with the Spanish government. Spain is in the EU, and also in Schengen, so will have to agree with both entities, and so the member states of each, what they will accept.
Spain already has the right, as I understand it, to issue visas for longer stays, but it will probably require the agreement of the other EU/Schengen states if Spain wants to change the rules by which it issues those visas, and wants its new visas to be accepted by those other states. .

That's the snag. We could already, for a modest sum, get a visa to enable us to stay in a Schengen country for the purposes of education, business, to work and for a few other reasons. Not one of those reasons includes having a long holiday there. What I would like to think is happening is that this " long holiday " visa is going to be included. If others who are interested, as I asked earlier, would write to the relevant authority and remind them of the need perhaps something might happen ?
Looks otherwise like I might have to get a job or enrol for a post-doctoral degree or something. What I would not do to avoid a UK winter !

The longest we have been in Schengen in any 180 day period is 150 days. The easiest fix would probably be to introduce an extension to the 90 days Schengen visa for people from designated countries (possibly those countries whose nationals do not need an actual visa, possibly against evidence of previous trouble free entries as for the multiple entry visas). Ideally, allowing 180 days in any 360 day period!

That would suit me but I only foresee one problem. Nobody cares except us. A few hundred, maybe a few thousand motorhomers who like to meander like nomads from Aire to Aire or sit on the Costa del Ingleeesh Breakfast waiting for a bit of milky warm winter sunshine will be on nobody's radar as they try and struggle with the millions of real issues Brexit will have bestowed upon us and the rest of Europe.

That 180/360 day suggestion was just a bit of wishful thinking - with tongue firmly in cheek! I agree with both of you, fat chance - unless uncle Guy pulls a rabbit out of his hat. After all, nearly half the votes were remain, and about 13 million didn't vote. Courage, mes braves!


I sometimes wonder what planet some folk are on Brian.
Picture the scene.
A couple of years ago, my wife and I motorhoming on the island of Corsica.
We struck up a conversation with an English ardent Brexiter and his boat in a harbor..
He was sailing to Greece having spent several months negotiating his way to Corsica.
I mentioned the restrictions that we would be facing after Brexit.
"Look" he said gesturing to the other boats in the harbor.
"They are going to want us here, they will kick off if we're not allowed to come".
He was actually the only Brit in a harbor full of boats from France, Germany etc, etc.
He freely admitted that the most he had spent was a beer in a bar in the harbor.
"We will be able to do all our visa renewals online".
I wonder what he's thinking now.
userarthur49
Posted: 3 August 2020 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: E.U. Travel restrictions.
 
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johnfromnorfolk - 2020-08-03 11:44 AM

I sometimes wonder what planet some folk are on Brian.
Picture the scene.
A couple of years ago, my wife and I motorhoming on the island of Corsica.
We struck up a conversation with an English ardent Brexiter and his boat in a harbor..
He was sailing to Greece having spent several months negotiating his way to Corsica.
I mentioned the restrictions that we would be facing after Brexit.
"Look" he said gesturing to the other boats in the harbor.
"They are going to want us here, they will kick off if we're not allowed to come".
He was actually the only Brit in a harbor full of boats from France, Germany etc, etc.
He freely admitted that the most he had spent was a beer in a bar in the harbor.
"We will be able to do all our visa renewals online".
I wonder what he's thinking now.


And if things don't pan out the way that guy wants it will be "the fault of these EU bullies!"
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