Deffheads Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I have fitted an AGM odyssey battery last year at great expense, the question I have for you knowledgeable people is can the charging from the EBL99 unit be turned off, as I would like to use a dedicated AGM charger whilst on EHU and then revert to EBL for charging whilst driving. I also need to use the motorhome, so do not want to disable the 12v circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 To disable the mains charging on the EBL remove the mains connector from its front panel . The EBL split charge will still work when on the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffheads Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 If by removing 240v supply plug, will I still have full use of all 12v functions and mains at sockets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Deffheads - 2021-01-11 12:36 PM If by removing 240v supply plug, will I still have full use of all 12v functions and mains at sockets? Yes, the EBL mains input only feeds its internal battery charger, after all the 12v works without being on EHU in the first place. The mains sockets are fed separately from the EBL via the mains consumer unit [fuse box]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 ............ but from my understanding, you may well need to check your alternator output to see if it is right for the AGM battery. Most are not. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffheads Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 On the subject of alternators, how and who do I check the output is correct for AGM battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 It is, I believe, a question of the charging voltage and control that makes the difference where an AGM battery is concerned. If the base vehicle was not built with an AGM starter battery, it's a bit unlikely the Alternator will be capable. Only the alternator and base vehicle manufacturer can tell you for sure if it's set up for it. The following link will make interesting and very informative reading: http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/agm-batteries.php ........ and if it leaves you disappointed, I'm sorry but it's the reality of AGMs. I'm also one who was bitten by the hype and I also had a new motorhome fitted with one by the manufacturer that never charged properly from the alternator. It couldn't possibly have done so. Their answer was to pin a note into the manual that said the motorhome must be plugged into a mains hook-up at least once every month. An admission that the alternator was incapable of doing the job. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageingandrew Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Deffheads - 2021-01-11 11:03 AM I have fitted an AGM odyssey battery last year at great expense, the question I have for you knowledgeable people is can the charging from the EBL99 unit be turned off, as I would like to use a dedicated AGM charger whilst on EHU and then revert to EBL for charging whilst driving. I also need to use the motorhome, so do not want to disable the 12v circuit. By disconnecting the mains supply to the EBL you will lose the ability for the EBL to charge your starter battery from EHU. You will also lose the 'mains on' indicator on the display panel. Why not remove the 20A fuse for the EBL internal charger module to disable it?. That will stop the EBL charging the leisure battery while on EHU while continuing to provide the float charge to the starter battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 As per Robin in your first thread on this subject, I had a Banner AGM battery fed by a EBL99, it worked fine for 8 years. Although I must admit that for most of that time we rarely used EHU, it was mostly charged either by the alternator, or via solar which was wired to bypass the EBL99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 ageingandrew - 2021-01-12 9:23 AM Why not remove the 20A fuse for the EBL internal charger module to disable it?. That will stop the EBL charging the leisure battery while on EHU while continuing to provide the float charge to the starter battery. According to the Schaudt EBL99 schematic, the same 20A fuse also provides the charge current to the starter battery through a PTC current limiter. Removing this fuse would also stop the starter battery being charged. The starter battery would however, get charged by the auxilliary charger assuming this was connected to the aux. charger input (Block 7) AND the EBL was still connected to the EHU. This sketch shows the path (in yellow) of the starter battery charge current. The relay (in green) must be pulled in by powering the EBL99 from EHU to allow this to happen (assuming the 20A fuse (blue) is out of circuit). I am not sure why you just cannot add another charger into the Aux. charger input to suppliment (not replace) the EBL charger. This is what this connector is designed for. The charger with the highest voltage will supply the current and override the other charger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 The Odyssey AGM battery leisure battery was fitted in August 2019 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/ODYSSEY-PC2250-BATTERY-12V/52746/ and follow-up forum discussions are here https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Auxiliary-battery-charger-on-EBL99/53584/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Confusion-over-AGM-battery-charging/54014/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/AGM-battery-charger/54070/ (I just mention this in case it helps - or at least avoids going over old ground.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageingandrew Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 According to the Schaudt EBL99 schematic, the same 20A fuse also provides the charge current to the starter battery through a PTC current limiter. Removing this fuse would also stop the starter battery being charged. The starter battery would however, get charged by the auxilliary charger assuming this was connected to the aux. charger input (Block 7) AND the EBL was still connected to the EHU. This sketch shows the path (in yellow) of the starter battery charge current. The relay (in green) must be pulled in by powering the EBL99 from EHU to allow this to happen (assuming the 20A fuse (blue) is out of circuit). Maybe I should have been more explicit. The OP suggests connecting a dedicated charger for his AGM leisure battery. I assume that the dedicated charger is connected directly to the leisure battery. Removing the 20A fuse as I suggested disables the EBL charging circuit. The EBL power unit still provides power to energise the starter battery charging relay. This allows the starter battery to charge via the dedicated external charger when on EHU. The point I was making was that the EBL must be powered ON for the starter battery to complete the starter battery charging circuit whilst on EHU. If the EHU is disconnected from mains, as suggested in another response, the starter battery charger relay cannot energise and so the starter battery will receive no charge from either the EBL or the dedicated charger. The external charger does not need to be connected via the AUX charger input but can be connected directly to the leisure battery. In my van I have connected a dedicated charger directly to the batteries and removed the said 20A fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffheads Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 I think I understand about the 20a fuse. I have solar to charge both batteries via a MPPT controller, so engine battery should be ok. Can I just connect a dedicated charger to the leisure battery in tandem with EBL still working whilst on EHU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageingandrew Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 I think I understand about the 20a fuse. I have solar to charge both batteries via a MPPT controller, so engine battery should be ok. Can I just connect a dedicated charger to the leisure battery in tandem with EBL still working whilst on EHU? If by “in tandem” you really mean in parallel, the I don’t see why not. In my van I have a Victron 30Amp charger connected directly to the leisure batteries and have removed the 20A fuse for the EBL charger. I also have a Victron B2B wired directly to the batteries. I don’t have any solar. It works a treat. If you look at the EBL schematic, the solar charge controller and aux charger inputs connect those chargers in parallel to the EBL charger. As long as your solar and dedicated chargers can be connected in parallel you should be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 If you connect an auxilliary charger directly to the battery, you will bypass the current masurement shunt inside the EBL so your remaining capacity display will be unusable. Connecting it to the EBL socket for an auxilliary charger is the proper way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 The OP detailed an EBL99, which, AFAIK isn't equipped (via a shunt) to assess current consumption and drive a panel with "remaining capacity", so in this particular case the nature of the connection is less critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Robinhood - 2021-01-16 3:07 PM The OP detailed an EBL99, which, AFAIK isn't equipped (via a shunt) to assess current consumption and drive a panel with "remaining capacity", so in this particular case the nature of the connection is less critical. The partial schematic for an EBL99 I posted earlier has this shunt and outputs to the display panel. The OP didn't say what display unit they have and it is possible this does not display remaining capacity or battery current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 ...I stand corrected, so it does (and so does the version of the diagram I'm working from :-( ). I had an EBL99 in my last van, which had the simple panel without the capacity display. Nonetheless, I did look quickly at my diagram, and completely missed it! (aided and abetted by the fact that, though the PDF manual, including the diagram heading, is searchable, the content of the diagram isn't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageingandrew Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Connecting it to the EBL socket for an auxilliary charger is the proper way to do it. Says who? Where is that documented? The OP has fitted an Odyssey PC2250 AGM battery which has C10 of 114Ah. The EBL auxiliary charger socket is limited to 18A. The EBL charger can provide up to 18A. According to the Odyssey data sheet the PC2250 when used in deep cycling applications requires at least 0.4C10 bulk from the charger with absorption voltage of around 14.7V. For the PC2250, Odyssey recommend a 50 A charger capable of 14.7v absorption. Even if the EBL could provide 18A, that leaves a lot of current to pass through the aux charger sockets. A lot more current than the EBL aux charger fuse will allow. With such an expensive battery I would be very tempted to install a B2B charger to ensure that it gets properly charged from the alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 You are right of course, that the connectors must be capable of carrying the current. I didn't realise that the EBL99 uses universal mate-n-lok connector for the aux. charger. With such a large current, you have little option with an EBL99 other than connecting the charger direct to the battery but you lose the battery current monitor function. On my EBL223, the aux. charging uses the larger minifit-sr connector (two of them) that have a higher current rating. The chargers combined can supply 50A through the EBL while still retaining the current monitoring feature. It seems like Schaudt have considered this on the later EBLs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughmer Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 This thread has provided heaps of useful background. I am curious to know what Deffheads decided to do in the end. The thread also highlighted some concern about overloading the Mate-n-Lok connectors on the EBL99. I believe they use 3.5mm pins which TE rate at 25 A https://www.dalroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/ENG_CS_1654368_140_MATE_N_LOK_0911-3.pdf Generally on the forum, I get the impression that folk wish to cater for the maximum current their charger is capable of delivering, but is this necessary? Shouldn't we be more interested in what the batteries require/are likely to draw? I have 2 x 100AH Bosch S5 LABs. My EBL never charges at more than 12A on EHU or driving. So even if I install new PV and an MPPT controler that could deliver >25A, will my batteries, - even at 50% D.o.D, - ever draw more than 12A? Might it be different if I changed batteries? I would be most interested to learn about observed maximum charge currents, particulalry in situations where an external charger is connected direct to LAB's Moderators, - apologies in advance if this is hijacking. Please advise if it should be new thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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