coombsmk2 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Suffering corrosion issues on a relativley new motorhome?. A word of warning..... My very recently (2 months) purchased £26,000 2010 Elddis Autoquest model 10,000miles only, no winter use.Full service and extra inspection history. Totally mint but 1 missed habitation check this year due to off road under cover storage and non last transfer of 5 yr warranty by previous owner.... My error yes but! That said even if the habitation certs were all in place, this type of steady water ingress has been present from the build...not always detected by habitation test either......To make a point I had it tested as is and it passed the damp test..... Elddis will not honour any warranty or repair,or speak about it. O/S lower quater panel to the rear of gas storage,has water ingress from the inner wheelarch from poor design build from the factory. Plywood inner edge exposed by 6mm allowing water to soak in then rotting the wood. Eventually reaction in the wood rotting causing holeing to the alloy outer skins. 3 years old and rotten! Horrific on a 3 yr old! Elddis reaction to all photo evidence was negative!............. Not good enough!!....... Signs are minor dark staining, the tiniest of blisters then resulting holes when examined. Great little motorhome ruined by shoddy attention to sealing detail. Sides and lower sections are just soft wood frames,polystyrene inners then sandwiched between 2 thin layers of plywood. Which all makes a great sponge if not sealed correctly.! Luckily I am a classic car restorer by trade so a repair I can undertake and it is only damage to the one panel...BUT I shouldnt have to. It will have a new proper treated timber and thicker 22 gauge aluminum fitted into place. All underside seams and edges will now be carefully sealed and wheelarches sealed.Mine will last!!! This is not the first time manufacturers deny a problem and wont be the last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 The 'Non' Transfer of the Warranty from the previous owner was a BAD mistake, why didn't you. ? And of course not having this years habitation service, as well ,gives them a 'Perfect Alibi' as to why they shouldn't fix your van. Not 'siding with them' because ,as you say, this problem has been a long time in the making. But you didn't exactly help your case either. You should have joined this forum BEFORE you bought the Van. We have plenty of stories similar to yours on here. any way Welcome to the Forum. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Are plywood skirts common on new CB vans? :-S...................If so they're going backwards in design terms, as our skirts are just Alloy :-| .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 As is oft repeated on here your contract is with the seller not the manufacturer. As you've only had it two months take it back from whence you bought it and complain. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Why are some motorhome manufacturers so complaisant when it comes to basic design and implementation of systems to prevent water ingress in one of the most prominent areas of a motorhome, the rear wheel wheel arch area. If a motorhome leaves the production line without sealant being used, once on the open road in wet conditions water penetrates at alarming speed causing untold damage which in turn leads to floor delamination on a large scale. The habitation damp checks can be very misleading because as has been mentioned even with a clean check damp can still be present. I have often wondered why a chassis manufacturer doesn't supply them to the converter with the steel wheel arches already attached. With a van conversion water ingress in that area just doesn't happen but the down side is it's narrow inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Fully agree with Dave. If you bought privately, you are somewhat sunk. But, if you bought it from a dealer, take it back and ask them to rectify it to your satisfaction. It sounds as though it has not been properly finished during manufacture. Surely the warranty inspections, if due so soon after purchase, should have been completed by he seller before handing it over to you? Besides which, if the wet was that advanced, I'm somewhat incredulous that a consciensiously executed damp check failed to reveal it. Who did the damp chack, the seller? However, do pause before you start any repairs yourself. If the van is that badly put together in one place, what confidence can you have that it is sound elsewhere? Do you want a motorhome, or an on-going project? I'd be inclined to talk to Citizen's Advice to explore your legal position since a van with so severe a problem suggests to me that it was not of suitable quality when sold, and you may wish to try to get your money back and start again. You haven't made this option easy by attacking it as you have, but if all you have sought to do is investigate the cause of the blisters in the side panels you may not have terminally prejudiced your legal position. If you bought from a dealer, you are entitled to assume, within reason, that as a motorhome dealer, he has sufficient expertise about motorhomes to be able to identify such severe problems. He is expected to know his trade, and his products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Really sorry to hear this - but judging by your 'call sign' I guess you've handled a few Jags in the past. As I have said repeatedly on here - British CB structural build is, in the main poor. Basic shortcomings in design and execution.. Damp tests are hit and miss. Worry more about the underside when making a decision to purchase You really should not have to deal with it - You should seek some kind of compensation or redress - although on reflection you will make a better repair job with your skill set What does this say about the manufacturer though? Let's hope enough prospective Elddis purchasers read this before signing up for a new van. At the risk of courting some back-lash - The basic Elddis coachbuilts are about the worst vans for sub-standard design. If I'm right in thinking you have exposed wood all along the side skirts to name but one design fault. I was looking at vans only last Saturday, and here's a tip - there's at least one, possibly two German CB's that will have potential problems in the future. Wouldn't mind a Coombes Jag myself :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 You're not alone coombs'... https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Corrosion-of-body-work-on-Elddis-Autoquest-100/32495/ ..and we had an '07 Compass 120 Avantgarde prior to our current van and that was showing signs of corrosion spots(then about 3 years old?)... After MUCH messing about, over many months, with the supplying dealer(..during which time they closed "our" branch, "mid claim", without informing us..before going bust altogether!), we got shot of it, trading it in against what we have now... Even though I knew it to be a "budget van", the build quality was still absolutely atrocious.. >:-( However ,if it's you that has stripped it down, then I'm not sure how much that would've muddied the waters, as far as getting "recompensed" is concerned.. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I know of one owner with a brand new Burstner 6 wheeler who's having problems galore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-12-13 7:59 PM I know of one owner with a brand new Burstner 6 wheeler who's having problems galore. Wash your mouth out with soap and water Pepe 8-) 8-) 8-) ....................that's heresy to speak such things (lol) (lol)............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 An abbreviated version of coombsmk2's original posting is on the Caravan Club website. (No comments so far.) The photo there shows serious corrosion similar to that mentioned in the earlier Out&AboutLive thread pepe63 provided a link to. http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/community/your-stories/coombsmk2/ELDDIS-2010-AUTOQUEST-ALLOY-CORROSION-amp-WOOD-ROT/rb/661195/ It would appear from the CC photo that DIY repair-work is well advanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 The buy British flag wavers have gone awfully quiet :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Bad Luck, I hope you get it sorted. As for refuting liability I remember someone who had an accessory fitted in a new motorhome, which an apprentice secured with an over long self tapping screw that protruded through the side of the van. Refusing a pinhole sized repair the owner demanded and got a complete new side fitted, for which the motorhome had to be sent back to the factory 250 miles away. Must have cost at least £10,000 to repair one little screw hole. Is it any wonder some dealers are reluctant to admit liability with perfectionists like that around? (I wonder if he would have been such a perfectionist if he had made the screw hole himself.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 coombsmk2 - 2013-12-13 5:26 PM................. My very recently (2 months) purchased £26,000 2010 Elddis Autoquest model 10,000miles only, no winter use.Full service and extra inspection history..... Looking again at your photo and the one on the CC forum, I realise the lower skirt section has been lapped on top of the side wall outer sheet, and the joint merely covered with a cover strip. First, an upward facing lap joint is created (the lap should at minimum be reversed, but in reality such a joint should not exist at all), then holes are drilled through both sheets into softwood/ply behind, and then a cover strip is added that in itself forms a ledge on which water will gather. I assume there are/were some wipes of sealant in the lap and beneath the cover strip? Used in this way, no sealant can be expected to work as intended. This really is incompetence of the first order! So, a criminally badly formed joint is drilled to provide capillary ingress routes, is backed by a hygroscopic material, and is provided with a handy water reservoir! Surprise, surprise, it leaks. Ye Gods! As the manufacturer presently appears unwilling to take responsibility for the resulting mess, I can only repeat what has been said above, if you bought this from a dealer, get it back to him fast. If similar joints exist elsewhere on the vehicle, as I assume they must, they will be liable to suffer the same fate, if they are not already doing so. Had you known what you now know, I assume you would not have bought this van? Its design is seriously flawed technically and I can't see any way in which this flaw can be satisfactorily rectified - by which I mean rectified so that it will not reoccur. I think you should contact Trading Standards as well as Citizens Advice, to obtain advice on rejecting the van as unfit for purpose - and I really do mean unfit! IMO, the design is hopelessly and irredeemably flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 I wonder how many of this particular model [and other Elddis variants built to the same design] are out there in the field! What I can confidently predict though, is that these problems will continue, albeit perhaps a few years later down the line. I checked out a runner-up of the latest MMM awards at the NEC which had some abysmal flaws and design shortcomings. So there's your proof - the 'experts' at MMM have no technical or structural remit [or nous] to delve beyond all the 'nice' shiny stuff, 'nice' layouts and spacious lounges. What is really galling is that the source of materials - sealants, composites etc has improved so dramatically over the past 20 years, yet nothing changes! Coming out with some 'new' assembly concept - [which others have been using for years!] will not help if you can't identify your own shortcomings in terms of design in the first place. The fact that Elddis will not assist in anyway is pretty awful - regardless of warranty limitations, no decent business would just walk away......unless you knew it to be an inherent problem and maybe just the tip of the iceberg ;-) It will not surprise me if these numerous flaws in CB's continue to rear their head on this forum - but it seems none of you are willing to get proactive. Let's face it, by the time we're half way through a discussion on damp we're talking about rain coats and the weather in Grimsby (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 globebuster - 2013-12-14 1:43 PM I checked out a runner-up of the latest MMM awards at the NEC which had some abysmal flaws and design shortcomings. So there's your proof - the 'experts' at MMM have no technical or structural remit [or nous] to delve beyond all the 'nice' shiny stuff, 'nice' layouts and spacious lounges.What is really galling is that the source of materials - sealants, composites etc has improved so dramatically over the past 20 years, yet nothing changes!Coming out with some 'new' assembly concept - [which others have been using for years!] will not help if you can't identify your own shortcomings in terms of design in the first place. Theres the rub, because the UK press support the UK manufacturing industry and lead its readership like lambs to the slaughter! Or is it incompetence? Are the Journos more at home at "Homes and Garden"? Reading a copy of 'Camping-car' from France, the Buyers guides have a Technical dossier and guess what is the first feature? No, not the size of the beds but the construction method and insulation. Now if you had a choice of externally similar vans both costing 59,990€, one with a wooden frame and polystyrene insulation and the other with out any wood and Styrofoam insulation, which would you choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-12-14 10:37 AM The buy British flag wavers have gone awfully quiet :D Not really Eddie, if you bothered to read all the posts you will have noted several comments about euro vans. As a matter of interest I believe Elddis no longer use this construction method. We Brit van owners on here seem to be happy with them, you euro owners have to keep telling us how good yours are, trying to convince yourselves I reckon. Their again if I had bought an overpriced, low spec, non sellable lhd euro van reckon I would have to try and convince myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Yawn.....Sounds like your still trying to convince yourself with the usual pathetic excuses....anyone with half a brain on here drives European vans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-12-14 2:54 PM Yawn.....Sounds like your still trying to convince yourself with the usual pathetic excuses....anyone with half a brain on here drives European vans if you think that European production Techniques are better, you are sadly mistaken, there are leaky European vans as well, I believe a certain Euramobile (yours) leaked ?? and I have heard of many CI Coachbuilts that leaked also. So much so, that they ceased Importing them and now import them under the ' Roller Team' brand, which used to be the CI 'Budget' range. As has been said ,it is a disgrace, considering that Adhesives the likes of 'Sika' are readily available, they are expensive...and probably there lies the 'Rub' , They go for the 'Cheapest option' which, in the end 'Costs them a Fortune' in a lost reputation and warranty repairs. Hence the appearance of 10 year water ingress warranties, I now, would not buy a New Coachbuilt Motorhome, no matter where it came from, without one. AND would want a warranty 'handover' and completed checks,on any Secondhand one I bought. It is like a 'Minefield' out there. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Clutching at straws!lol Since when have CI or roller team been rated as being any good No it never leaked unless you consider the fault with heki and seal on garage door. For the last time *-) damp was discovered on day of PX when van was 4.5 years old, but it had a 6 year water ingress warranty. Dealer called euramobil to check warranty still valid, and deal went ahead at previously agreed price so no loss and no pain Again..there was no signs of damp or water ingress, dealer just used meter on outside and said damp here and here....but it was a budget van, a new range from euramobil, if I wanted a CB would happily have another one because they look after you! But it would be a terrestra model Are you seriously saying my experience is comparable to some of the horrendous experiences some have to endure with poorly built, overpriced, overweight, UK rubbish..... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Although the results can still be the same, I still think that there is a major difference between something like a window or roof light seal failing(or being poorly executed) and something like aluminium panels joins being lapped the wrong way up!?! ... 8-) I hadn't really taken much notice of coombs' photo, until Brian mentioned the lap... How the hell did they let that happen!?...I'm sorry but that is just a dog rough/pi** poor/ c*ck-up, of the highest order! >:-( Jeeez!..You wouldn't repair a garden shed like that! ... *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 pepe63 - 2013-12-14 4:35 PM..............Jeeez!..You wouldn't repair a garden shed like that! ... *-) Even one on wheels!! :-D I don't think this is a one off, it seems it must have been their standard method of construction, as the pictures on the thread you linked to above look pretty much identical, and the result was the same. I thought that must be due to leakage from the window above, but Ian Whitehead, who started that string, never removed the cover strip to reveal the nonsense beneath (or if he did, he didn't put up a pic of it). I can't actually see any trace of sealant in the better defined pictures on the CC forum in Derek's link above, just dirt. However, even if there were sealant present it would be inlikely to maintain a durable seal on a joint constructed that way. It truly is quite unbelievable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Looking at these example of Compass/Elddis rot, makes me really glad we traded ours in when we did.. :-S I suppose the OP has to make the choice of whether to fix it himself .....and then get shot of it... or Spend who knows how long toing and froing between dealer/manufacture/solicitor(s) etc...and after which,STILL get shot if it... (..we must have been 6months+ into the claim with our Compass corrosion....and it was STILL no closer to getting fixed..and that was WITHOUT any grey areas concerning the warranty). So in the end I told Explorer(manufacturer)and Discover(Dealer) where they could shove the "after sales service"...and within a few months I traded it in at Highbridge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Progress eh? :D.....................I bet that phrase annoys people on a regular basis? (lol)........... But so long us your prepared to shell out your hard earned dosh on badly built shinny new campers *-)...................then you only have yourselves to blame.............. give me a bargain banger, especially a GRP Autosleeper every time ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-12-14 2:54 PM Yawn.....Sounds like your still trying to convince yourself with the usual pathetic excuses....anyone with half a brain on here drives European vans And true to form, full of poisonousness jibes, and your usual sympathy for someone finding themselves with a problem, and if that's not enough, rubbing the salt in the wound as well, I'll bet it's made your day to read of this blokes problems. Why don't you tell us about your worsening health issues, we'll do " a Judgemental" and all have good laugh about them while we're at it (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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