Fiat Ducato Euro 5 - manufacturer alarm system

[Mel B]

Does anyone know whether the factory-fit Fiat alarm is a Thatcham Cat 1 model or not? We've been trying to sort out the insurance for our new Autocruise Accent and can't answer the question asked by the insurance company so they've had to class it as NOT being a Cat 1 version. I've looked at brochures, websites, forums etc but can't find out anything about it other than it is a "volumetric anti-theft alarm" but haven't a clue what this means in the real world! :$

 

Our current insurance lasts until April and based on the number of months left, we would have been due a refund of £17, however as there's a £25 admin fee to change the details over to the new van, we actually owe them £8, however they've waived this as it's not worth the hassle/paperwork etc to charge us this.

 

Obviously if the alarm IS a Cat 1 the insurance cost would be less, so we might actually get money back off them! :-D

 

If it isn't a Cat 1 alarm, has anyone had theirs uprated to make it into one and if so how much did it cost and did it make much difference to the insurance cost?

[Robinhood]

FWIW, the current (July 2012) Thatcham listings don't rate the factory alarm, though they do rate the standard fit immobiliser (as the usual Cat 2).

 

http://www.thatcham.org/security/pdfs/compliance.pdf

[Dave Newell]

Why not ask the supplying dealer, they ought to know.

 

D.

[Mel B]

Dave Newell - 2012-08-23 8:39 PM

 

Why not ask the supplying dealer, they ought to know.

 

D.

... now why didn't I think of that .... *-) (lol)

 

Just thought I'd ask you knowledgable lot first seeing as some of you like to show how clever you are! :D ;-)

[Mike88]

For my 2010 model the dealer didn't know. You have registered on the Swift Talk website so ask there where you will receive a response from Swift. In 2010 the rating for my Mondial factory fitted alarm was Thatcham 2 which was fine for insurance purposes.

[AliB]

Try Fiat Customer Service.

00800 3428 0000

I have not had to contact them since 2009 but they were very helpful. Or as stated. an ideal enquiry for Swift Talk.

[maggyd]

And when you find out Mel will you let us know?? :-D the salesman we talked to didnt know anything other than an alarm would be fitted.!!

 

All I can find is Immobilizer with rolling code :-S

[tonyishuk]

I could be way off beam here, but if you have outside lockers or additional doors not alarmed, I would think that the alarm would not be cat 1.

 

Our Rapido came with Fiat locking and immobilizer.

 

In order to get to Cat 1 we had a Cobra alarm with additional sensors on the locker doors, internal sensor and gas alarm fitted by the Dealer.

 

The Cobra alarm integrates with the Fiat canbus system, for setting, alarming and locking doors etc.

 

Came with a certificate to forward to the insurance company confirming it was a Cat 1 installation.

 

Regards

[Mike88]

The original poster has a panel van meaning there are no additional doors such as on a coachbuilt. All external doors are alarmed on a panel van.

[Mel B]

Update:

 

The supplying dealer doesn't know :-|

 

Our local Fiat commercial dealership tried to convice me that it was an after-fit by the dealer as they didn't know they did one! *-)

 

Although I've registered with Swift Talk I haven't had 'approval' yet so can't log in! :-(

 

I'll try again next Tuesday seeing as everyone is now on holiday. B-)

[Way2Go]

We ordered a brand new 2013 Adria yesterday, based on the Fiat Ducato Euro 5 chassis, and had to pay an extra £699 for a Cobra G198 Cat 1 alarm system to be fitted "as an insurance requirement". This would appear to suggest that the standard one wasn't Cat 1 otherwise we wouldn't have had to buy it.

 

Hope this helps?

 

W2G

[Robinhood]

Way2Go - 2012-08-26 1:11 PM

 

We ordered a brand new 2013 Adria yesterday, based on the Fiat Ducato Euro 5 chassis, and had to pay an extra £699 for a Cobra G198 Cat 1 alarm system to be fitted "as an insurance requirement". This would appear to suggest that the standard one wasn't Cat 1 otherwise we wouldn't have had to buy it.

 

Hope this helps?

 

W2G

 

Much will depend on whether Adria ordered the base vehicle for conversion with the alarm. It is an option, whereas an immobiliser (Thatcham 2) is standard. A (the correct) Cobra installation is a Thatcham approved means of uprating from Thatcham 2 (immobiliser only) to Thatcham 1 (and is covered in the listings).

 

As I posted above, the immobiliser is listed and rated in the latest Thatcham listings, whereas the alarm isn't.

 

Whilst this isn't necessarily definitive, it is probably indicative of the fact that either i) it doesn't meet Thatcham approval criteria, or ii) it hasn't yet been tested.

 

Given the existence of the listing, I wouldn't like to quote approval to any insurance company for the OE alarm.

[maggyd]

Way2Go - 2012-08-26 1:11 PM

 

We ordered a brand new 2013 Adria yesterday, based on the Fiat Ducato Euro 5 chassis, and had to pay an extra £699 for a Cobra G198 Cat 1 alarm system to be fitted "as an insurance requirement". This would appear to suggest that the standard one wasn't Cat 1 otherwise we wouldn't have had to buy it.

 

Hope this helps?

 

W2G

 

There is definitely SOMETHING IN THE AIR :-D which Adria did you get WTG ? Im just thinking maybe it would be cheaper for us to get it fitted from Dealer as you have rather than get VanBlitz to fit one afterwards!! what do you think? we dont get our Autocruise until end of Sep;

 

just priced up VB Strikeback coachbuilt and A.class are showing £599 -£625

 

we,ll need to do some telephoning I think.

[rupert123]

Our Peugeot base van has been upgraded from thatcham 2-1 by fitting an Autowatch 695 System which works of the OE equipment so we still use the normal van remote locking system. You can set it to autolock but never do in case we ever leave keys inside. In practice I think a waste of money unless insurance company insists as the extra discount you get for having it you will never recover the cost. The extra protection it gives is simply not worth the bother.

[Way2Go]

maggyd - 2012-08-26 3:44 PM

 

. . . . which Adria did you get WTG ?

 

We bought a 2013 Adria CORAL S 670 SLT. It has two single beds and an end bathroom. Its fully winterised (even has somewhere to store your skies) and we've added some extras including full length awning, cruise control, air conditioning, microwave, TV and two leisure batteries to extend our season and choice of location for extended periods.

 

. . . . . and the interior ambient lighting is something to behold.

 

We're extremely excited about getting her . . . sorry to go OT but I was only answering a question addressed to me >:-)

[Mike88]

I'm with Comfort Insurance who insure many motorhomes. I have a list of extras on mine including satellite TV, solar panels etc etc. The insurance company were happy to accept my Thatcham 2 standard factory fitted alarm without specifying any additions.

 

There may be less stringent requirements for panel vans as they are possibly more difficult to break into.

[rupert123]

Mike88 - 2012-08-26 5:42 PM

 

I'm with Comfort Insurance who insure many motorhomes. I have a list of extras on mine including satellite TV, solar panels etc etc. The insurance company were happy to accept my Thatcham 2 standard factory fitted alarm without specifying any additions.

 

There may be less stringent requirements for panel vans as they are possibly more difficult to break into.

 

I to have gone for Comfort this year and was part of the reason I said in my previous post that I feel an alarm upgrade is a waste of money, not sure really why I did it.

[Dave Newell]

Mike88 - 2012-08-26 5:42 PM

 

I'm with Comfort Insurance who insure many motorhomes. I have a list of extras on mine including satellite TV, solar panels etc etc. The insurance company were happy to accept my Thatcham 2 standard factory fitted alarm without specifying any additions.

 

There may be less stringent requirements for panel vans as they are possibly more difficult to break into.

 

Thatcham category 2 is for immobilisers not alarms. Cat 1 is for alarms. As standard all modern vehicles will have a factory fitted, transponder operated immobiliser that is cat 2 certified. Fitting a Thatcham certified alarm will upgrade ot from cat 2 to cat 1.

 

D.

[Mel B]

Our insurer, Safeguard, hasn't insisted on a Cat 1 alarm, but if it was one, then we would get a discount. We wouldn't bother having one fitted again though, more trouble than they're worth IMV - everyone ignores them anyway! *-)

[Mike88]

Dave Newell - 2012-08-26 8:55 PM

 

Mike88 - 2012-08-26 5:42 PM

 

I'm with Comfort Insurance who insure many motorhomes. I have a list of extras on mine including satellite TV, solar panels etc etc. The insurance company were happy to accept my Thatcham 2 standard factory fitted alarm without specifying any additions.

 

There may be less stringent requirements for panel vans as they are possibly more difficult to break into.

 

Thatcham category 2 is for immobilisers not alarms. Cat 1 is for alarms. As standard all modern vehicles will have a factory fitted, transponder operated immobiliser that is cat 2 certified. Fitting a Thatcham certified alarm will upgrade ot from cat 2 to cat 1.

 

D.

 

Are you saying there is no such thing as a factory fitted alarm? If you look at the extras available for a Ducato chassis on the Fiat website one is for a factory a factory fitted alarm. For insurance purposes I asked Swift for details of the alarm fitted and was told it was a Thatcham 2.

[maggyd]

Way2Go - 2012-08-26 4:37 PM

 

maggyd - 2012-08-26 3:44 PM

 

. . . . which Adria did you get WTG ?

 

We bought a 2013 Adria CORAL S 670 SLT. It has two single beds and an end bathroom. Its fully winterised (even has somewhere to store your skies) and we've added some extras including full length awning, cruise control, air conditioning, microwave, TV and two leisure batteries to extend our season and choice of location for extended periods.

 

. . . . . and the interior ambient lighting is something to behold.

 

We're extremely excited about getting her . . . sorry to go OT but I was only answering a question addressed to me >:-)

 

Thats a lovely WTG :-D no wonder your excited ;-) your excused.

[Robinhood]

Mike88 - 2012-08-26 9:07 PM

 

Are you saying there is no such thing as a factory fitted alarm? If you look at the extras available for a Ducato chassis on the Fiat website one is for a factory a factory fitted alarm. For insurance purposes I asked Swift for details of the alarm fitted and was told it was a Thatcham 2.

 

....what Dave is saying is that there is no such thing as a Thatcham 2 alarm, since this is a categorisation that applies only to immobilisers.

 

The categorisation is explained here:

 

http://www.thatcham.org/security/index.jsp?page=75

 

It is certainly quite possible for a vehicle to have a factory fitted alarm, and that alarm (in conjunction with a factory-fitted Thatcham 2 immobiliser, might result in Thatcham 1 status - which is a category that applies to immobilisers accompanied by alarms), but it will not if Thatcham have not rated the alarm part.

 

It is also possible to fit a Category 2-1 (aftermarket) Thatcham rated alarm upgrade to an existing Thatcham 2 factory-equipped immobiliser vehicle, to achieve Thatcham 1 status.