Fiat Ducato X290 wheel-bolt torque

[Derek Uzzell]

The Fiat Ducato Owner Handbook for X290 (and earlier) models provides advice on how to change a wheel and how the wheel-bolts should be tightened. What it does not do is define the wheel-bolt torque setting.

 

I was under the impression that - for the standard Ducato 15” steel wheel - the torque setting was 160Nm, with 180Nm being appropriate for the standard 16” steel wheel used with Ducato ‘maxi’ chassis.

 

My local Fiat Professional agent has confirmed those figures for 2014-onwards Ducatos (though adding that they use 180Nm whatever the wheel diameter). However Fiat Professional (Customer Relations) has advised me (twice!) that 140Nm is correct for the standard 15” steel wheel fitted to Ducato X290s.

 

Does anybody KNOW if 140Nm is right?

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2015-05-29 10:23 AM

 

I was under the impression that - for the standard Ducato 15” steel wheel - the torque setting was 160Nm, with 180Nm being appropriate for the standard 16” steel wheel used with Ducato ‘maxi’ chassis.

 

 

...don't know the answer, Derek, but the figures you quote above are consistent with Fiat's own eLearn (CD-copy of online repair manual) for the X244 model for 15 and 16 inch wheels respectively.

 

 

[euroserv]

Derek,

 

I don't really understand the question.

 

If you have had confirmation on more than one occasion by a Fiat agent that 140Nm is correct, why would you doubt it?

 

The fact that the same people went on to say that they always tighten to 160 / 180Nm depending on wheel size is neither here nor there. We always tighten to 180Nm for all X250's onwards and do so because it seems appropriate and has never caused any problems and no wheels have fallen off.

 

Ironically though; next time you have a wheel fitted at a fast fit tyre centre they will probably tighten it to 300Nm or more and the next person will struggle to get it undone. It does not seem to matter how much care you put into things. Some cluless git will always undo your good work at some point anyway.

 

My advice is to follow the instructions that you have been given by the agent of the manufacturer.....unless you think you know better and do it differently but don't even think about complaining to Fiat if you mess it up! I think 180Nm seems better but don't come crying to me either!

 

Nick

[Derek Uzzell]

I asked Fiat Professional this (apparently simple) question by e-mail at the beginning of May and the resultant discussion went as follows:

 

.....................................................................................................................................

 

13 May 2015

 

Re:Torque setting for wheel bolts - Fiat Ducato Motorhome

 

Dear Mr Uzzell,

 

We acknowledge receipt of your email dated the 5th May 2015.

 

Regarding your query, we would suggest that you contact your nearest authorised Fiat Professional dealership who will be able assist you.

As we do not have your address, we would like to invite you to use our dealer search function found on our website www.fiatprofessional.co.uk

 

Alternatively, you can contact our Customer Service team, available from Monday to Friday between 9:00 and 18:00, on 00800 34281111 option number 2 who will be happy to find your nearest authorised Fiat Professional dealerships for you.

Kind regards,

 

Customer Relations

Fiat Professional

 

.....................................................................................................................................

 

14 May 2015

 

Dear ............

 

I initially telephoned your Customer Service team to highlight the fact that, although the Fiat Ducato Owner Handbook includes instructions on how to change a wheel in an emergency and the order in which the wheel-bolts should be tightened, the torque-setting for the wheel-bolts is not stated. I asked what the torque-setting should be for the bolts used with standard 15” steel wheels and it was suggested that I contact my nearest authorised Fiat Professional dealership to obtain this information.

 

I agreed that I could certainly do this (I was already aware that the nearest dealership was Watts at Gloucester) but it would be far simpler and carry more authority if the information were in the Handbook. In any case, contacting a Fiat dealership in an emergency (on a Sunday say) would not always be a practicable proposition. I asked if I was likely to be provided with torque data if I e-mailed Fiat using the on-line inquiry form and was told Yes.

 

Many motorists will not carry a torque wrench in their vehicle and/or will not be capable of changing a wheel in an emergency (or at any other time), but that does not preclude the handbook from specifying torque-settings for wheel-bolts. My Skoda car’s handbook includes torque-setting advice and my Ford Transit’s wheel-nuts have the correct torque-setting stamped on them.

 

The lack of torque-setting information in the Ducato Handbook encourages error. I recently chanced to see a tyre-fitter replacing a wheel on a 2012-registered Ducato (with 16” steel wheels) and asked him what torque-setting he was using. He told me 180Nm and, when I asked about 15” wheels, said “180Nm too."

 

My understanding is that - for up-to-2014 Ducatos - the torque-setting for the wheel-bolts used with standard steel wheels was 180Nm for 16” wheels or 160Nm for 15” wheels . I’m 99% sure that those figures will also apply to the latest Ducato, but I would value ‘official’ confirmation from Fiat that this assumption is correct.

 

If you are going to tell me that Fiat’s Customer Service/Customer Care team is unable or unprepared to deal with even a basic ‘technical’ question, then please say so. At least then I shall not waste my time in future...

 

Regards

 

Derek Uzzell

 

.....................................................................................................................................

 

21 May 2015

 

Re: - Fiat Ducato Motorhome

 

Dear Mr Uzzell,

 

We acknowledge receipt of your email dated the 18th May 2015.

 

Regarding your query, we have been advised that the torque-setting for the wheel bolts used with standard 15” wheels is as follows:

140Nm.

 

Naturally should you require further assistance, our Customer Relations team remain available to you on 00800 3428 1111, choosing option 2, from Monday to Friday between 09.00 and 18.00.

 

Kind regards,

 

Customer Relations

Fiat Professional

 

.....................................................................................................................................

 

22 May 2015

 

Dear ..............

 

Thanks for the reply - snag is that the 140Nm figure conflicts with what I understood to be the case and what my local Fiat Professional agent has just told me.

 

My understanding (as I said in an earlier message) was that the wheel-bolts used with the standard 15”-diameter steel wheels fitted to 2006-onwards Ducatos should be tightened to 160Nm, while 180Nm was the appropriate tightening torque for the wheel-bolts when the standard steel wheels were 16”-diameter.

 

My local Fiat Professional contact initially gave me a torque-setting of 180Nm. I queried this and he rechecked (presumably using Fiat’s official technical documentation) and said that 160Nm was advised for the wheel-bolts of 2014-onwards Ducato standard 15”-diameter steel wheels and 180Nm for 16”-diameter steel wheels. However, he added that they used 180Nm irrespective of the wheel diameter. I mentioned that you had advised me that 140Nm should be used and his opinion was that 140Nm was too low.

 

This really comes back to there being no wheel-bolt torque-setting information in the Ducato Owner Handbook. If there were I would not have needed to seek advice from you or a local Fiat Professional agent, and I would not now be in a position of having to choose between your 140Nm, or the local agent’s 160Nm/180Nm.

 

As I’m reasonably sure that 160Nm is the figure that Fiat ‘officially’ advises for the 15” wheels on my 2015 Ducato, that’s what I intend to use.

 

Regards

 

Derek

 

.....................................................................................................................................

 

29 May 2015

 

Re: Fiat Ducato Motorhome

 

Dear Mr Uzzell,

 

We acknowledge receipt of your email which we received on the 22nd May 2015.

 

Whilst we have noted your comments regarding the torque-setting for the wheel bolts used with standard 15” wheels , we must confirm that we advise a setting of 140Nm.

 

Should you require any future assistance, our Customer Relations team remain available to you on 00800 3428 1111, choosing option 2, from Monday to Friday between 09.00 and 18.00.

 

Kind regards,

 

Customer Relations

Fiat Professional

 

.....................................................................................................................................

.....................................................................................................................................

 

 

Nick

 

I don’t care what you do regarding wheel-bolt tightening, nor do I care what tyre-fitters do nor what the local Fiat Professional commercial-vehicle garage does.

 

I don’t use fast-fit tyre centres and, when wheels have needed to be removed from my vehicles (for servicing, say, or for tyres to be replaced), I will always recheck the torque-settings myself afterwards. If I suspected that the person who would be removing my vehicle’s wheels might be a “clueless git” I would not have allowed him/her to do it in the first place.

 

The Ducato Owner Handbook (and the Boxer/Relay handbooks too) advises that, after replacing a wheel, the wheel-bolts should be 'fully tightened’, but I doubt that - unless the owner were a body-builder - attaining much over 100Nm would be possible using the wheel-spanner provided with the vehicle.

 

Somewhere (presumably) in Fiat’s technical literature that a Fiat Professional agency (hopefully!) will use for reference when working on a 2014-onwards Ducato there will be data about wheel-bolt torque settings and (I would have thought) there should consequently be no ambiguity about what those settings are.

 

However, you’ll see from the above that I obtained two conflicting figures from ‘reputable sources’ - 140Nm from Fiat Professional (Customer Relations) and 160Nm from the Fiat Professional garage at Gloucester - one of which must be right and the other wrong. As I said in my last e-mail to Fiat Professional (Customer Relations) I have opted for 160Nm because it seems ‘righter’ to me, but I don’t like having to make that type of educated-guess decision when there should be no doubt about the recommended torque-setting.

 

Now do you understand the question?

 

 

[MikeJJ]

Out of interest I just took a look at a label stuck inside the driver's door (X290 - July) and that states 160Nm for 15" wheels and 180Nm for 16" wheels.

 

However, on closer inspection I think the label is an ALKO one and not a Fiat one.

[Robbo]

MikeJJ - 2015-08-31 10:54 AM

 

Out of interest I just took a look at a label stuck inside the driver's door (X290 - July) and that states 160Nm for 15" wheels and 180Nm for 16" wheels.

 

However, on closer inspection I think the label is an ALKO one and not a Fiat one.

 

My ALCO handbook states the same. If it's good enough for ALCO, it's good enough for me.

[Derek Uzzell]

A forum-search indicates that the 160Nm and 180Nm figures have been quoted here as being correct for Ducato wheel-bolt torque settings going right back to a 1995 vehicle.

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=160nm&author=&days=&Submit=Search

 

It would appear from on-line comments that, in the past, the appropriate wheel-bolt torque settings have somtimes been stated in Owner Manuals and the last two postings indicate that, when a Ducato has an AL-KO chassis, it should be anticipated that an AL-KO label will be affixed to the vehicle giving the torque settings and that the information will also be provided in the AL-KO handbook.

 

It’s nevertheless the case that, if the advice Fiat Professional (Customer Relations) gave me (140Nm for Ducato X290 15” steel wheels) is correct, then the 160Nm advised by AL-KO for that size wheel is not. Should one believe AL-KO (who may be quoting historical data) or the Fiat representatives who should have access to accurate current data and insisted that 140Nm was correct?

 

The number of motorhome forum inquiries about Ducato wheel-bolt torque settings prove that motorhome owners a) feel a need to have this information and b) have difficulty obtaining it. There’s no obvious persuasive reason for the data not to be in Ducato Owner Manuals and, if it were, it should avoid the situation described in the following link

 

http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/149-fiat-ducato/122725-torque-ratings-16-inch-wheels.html

 

[Seannachie]

As a matter of interest, though it won't directly help you, Derek, or anyone else running on 15" wheels, I have a Peugeot based vehicle - which is Sevel built, like Fiats - running on 16" steel wheels. The handbook gives instructions for changing the wheel, but also fails to mention the torque settings. I queried this with my Peugeot main dealer who checked the chassis number then advised me that the torque settings were 18DaNm (18 DecaNewton-metres). Two weeks ago I blew a tyre (which also wrecked the steel wheel) and had to call out the AA. I told the AA technician that Peugeot had advised me 18DaNm but he fired up his onboard computer and checked anyway; it told him that the torques setting for 16" wheels should be 180Nm (which is the same as 18DaNm). When I subsequently visited my Peugeot dealer for a new wheel and tyre, he replaced them for the spare the AA techie had fitted and the new wheel was torqued up to 18DaNm (180Nm) by the Peugeot technician without asking me. So, there seems no doubt that 18DaNm, or 180 Nm (which is the same thing) is the correct torque for 16" steel wheels on Sevel-built vans.

[Derek Uzzell]

Seannachie - 2015-09-01 8:54 AM

 

...So, there seems no doubt that 18DaNm, or 180 Nm (which is the same thing) is the correct torque for 16" steel wheels on Sevel-built vans.

 

Until last year that would have been pretty certain. Until then ‘light chassis’ Ducatos, Boxers and Relays only had 15” wheels, while ‘Maxi chassis’ Ducatos, Boxers and Relays always had 16” wheels. But in 2014, with the advent of the X290, 16” wheels (steel or alloy) became an option on ‘light’ chassis.

 

A 2014 Ducato X290 price-list quotes £150 for the 16”-wheel option. I don’t know what the option actually comprises, but £150 is cheap enough to suggest that the extra cost just covers bigger wheels and tyres and does not include mechanical alterations like hub and brake uprating.

 

So, assuming that ‘light’ X290 Ducatos/Boxers/Relays with the optional 16” wheels have the same hubs and wheel-bolts as those of ‘light' Ducatos/Boxers/Relays with the standard 15" wheels, will their wheel-bolts be torqued to the same setting as used for the 15” wheel or to the setting used for Maxi 16” wheels?

[Seannachie]

 

I didn't know about the option to have 16" wheels fitted to the 'light chassis', so am unable to answer your question, Derek. My comment was just trying to help those with 16" wheels which had been factory-fitted as standard, (as mine were) and not as an option. Still, given that most torque wrenches used by amateurs are accurate to only within 4% or so - and probably never re-calibrated anyway - is all this angst worth it - split the difference and do 15" wheels up to 150Nm.

:-D

[Guest Peter James]

My elearn Ducato X2/50 manual states

 

15" wheels = M14 bolts = 160Nm

16" wheels = M16 bolts = 180Nm

 

You could measure the outside diameter of the bolts to be sure,* but I think it a reasonable assumption the 16" wheels will all have M16 bolts, irrespective of whether they are fitted to the light/heavy X2/50 X2/90 versions, so they should be all be torqued to 18 (daNM)

 

But we should not have to make any assumptions about such a safety critical item. It should be stated in the Owners Handbook.

 

I salute you for your efforts Derek, and am dismayed by the response you got from FIAT.

(I am also dismayed by a comment on the other forum that you couldn't over tighten them with an ordinary tool - its only 133lb foot pounds, anybody over 10 stone standing on a one foot bar would be over tightening it.)

 

* M16 will just slide through a 16mm dia washer, and not slide through a 14mm dia washer

[Derek Uzzell]

I‘ll quote from the “Which Tyres?" website

 

"Campers which are based on a Ducato chassis will be one of two variations; either a standard Ducato or a Ducato Maxi.....If you are looking to buy alloys for your van then you will need to determine which type you have. The easiest way to do this is to check your current tyre size, this will read something like 215/70R15. The 15 in this size refers to your wheel size so in this example the van would be running on 15? wheels. If your vehicle is on 15? wheels then it will be a standard Ducato, if it’s on 16? wheels (and hasn’t been changed on to this size) then it will be a Maxi. If your van has 6 wheels then this is also an indication that the vehicle is a Maxi.

 

The distinction is important as Fiat have different spacings between the stud holes on the 2 types. This spacing can be referred to as stud pattern or PCD, if you start looking into wheel specs then you may see these terms. Just for the record the stud pattern for a standard Ducato has a pcd of 5×118, whereas the Maxi is 5×130. Also the width of the hub where the wheel sits varies (Ducato 71.1mm, Maxi 78.1mm) therefore wheels are definitely not interchangeable between variants.”

 

This advice was accurate before the introduction of the X290 and will still be accurate when a standard (ie. ‘light’) Ducato chassis has 15” wheels. However, if the 16"-wheel option is chosen for a standard chassis, those wheels will either need to be suitable for the standard hubs and have a PCD of 5x118 and use M14 wheel-bolts, or the hubs (and presumably the brakes too) could have been changed to the ‘Maxi’ specification which would allow the normal Maxi 16” wheel to be used together with M16 wheel-bolts.

 

As I said earlier, the list-price of the 16”-wheel option makes me think that the hubs, brakes and wheel-bolts remain unchanged and the £150 just gets you 16” steel wheels (with tyres to match) that have a PCD of 5x118 and use M14 bolts. This should be easy enough to check if one had access to a Fiat spare parts list for the X290, as there would either be just two steel wheels available (15” or 16” diameter) or three (15”-light, 16”-light, or 16”-Maxi). It’s also the case that quite a few motorhome manufacturers have standardised on 16” wheels (usually alloy ones) even when the light X290 chassis is used, so it should not be difficult for owners to identify whether such motohomes have M14 or M16 wheel-bolts.

 

If there is now a special '16”-light’ wheel that attaches with M14 bolts and (with no guidance in the X290 Owner Handbook) a tyre fitter decided to use the 220Nm mentioned in the MHFacts discussion I gave a link to earlier, but 140Nm (as advised to me by Fiat Professional) or 160Nm (as was appropriate for X250 15” wheels) is actually the correct torque setting, that would be a LOT of over-tightening.

 

If my torque-wrench proved to be 4% inaccurete if it were calibrated and a setting of 160Nm turned out to be 154Nm or 166Nm, I would not be particularly concerned when it came to wheel-bolt tightening. But I would like to know beforehand whether or not 160Nm was the advised torque setting. Which, of course, was my original inquiry that (as far as I’m concerned) has still not been conclusively resolved.

 

Besides the wheel-bolt torque-setting issue the X290 light-chassis 16”-wheel option has implications regarding whether it includes an adjustment to a motorhome’s gearing to allow for the significantly larger tyres. There’s also the matter of which 16” wheel should be bought if one wishes to carry a spare-wheel and the motorhome is not provided with one as standard.

[Guest Peter James]

Good point Derek. Maybe they have produced a different 16" wheel for the light version, as an alternative to producing different hubs? If I had an X2/90 light version with 16" wheels I would take out a wheel bolt and measure the diameter to get the tightening torque. But we ought to be able to find out from the drivers handbook without having to do that.

[Seannachie]

You make a good point, Derek, which should have been addressed in the Fiat (and Peugeot) vehicle handbook.

 

As a matter of interest, when you contacted Fiat asking for the wheel torques, did anyone ask you what your chassis number was so they could give you the appropriate advice? I ask because my Peugeot main dealer did. As he said to me, "Without the chassis number, we can't say, as they're all different".