Fiat Professional - dodgy in Diss?

[StuartO]

Garages, especially main dealerships, are sometimes very customer service oriented these days, organising lots of reminders and doing after-service opinion surveys  - but not always.

 

I was doing a bit of research because I thought my clutch might be about to expire and so I rang Fiat Professional at Diss in East Anglia and spoke to the Service Desk.  I was put through (after one of these number menu systems) and explained that I was hoping to get an indication of whether they could replace the clutch and if so what it would cost me.  "I'll book you in for a hour's diagnostic assessment and then we can look at it and let you know; this will cost you about £100 but if it doesn't take an hour the remainder will be knocked off the cost of the repair when we do it."

 

I explained that at this stage I was just looking for ball park costs and could she just confirm they could do it and advise me with some sort of ball park figure.  (They were after all a Fiat Professional dealer so they were bound to have done a Ducato clutch before.) 

 

But this initially polite young woman changed gear and made it clear she didn't want to know or bother; their system was always to get the vehicle in for a diagnostic check at a cost of £100, so that was my option.  She offered to transfer me to her Service Manager, who turned out to be another assertive female who gave me the same treatment - book in or nothing and short shrift with it.  It wasn't clear to me that their "main dealership" was capable of doing a clutch change at all. 

 

It was a very different experience compared with ringing the service desk at the Honda Dealership in Norwich, where I take my car, where all the guys (or gals) on the desk I've spoken to have been both knowledgeable and helpful every time.

 

After the experience of what seemed like two uncompromising and certainly customer-unfriendly feminists, who clearly took the same approach and the senior one clearly supported the "our way or no way" attitude, I was a bit hacked off and decided I would ring back and try to talk to their boss.  I asked for the Dealer Principal (who is conventionally the boss at a main dealership) but was told there wasn't one, each Department Manager was separately accountable to the Group General Manager.  He was not accessible so the only thing I could do was leave a message with someone in Sales to ask him to ring back.  I didn't get a call back and I suspect the message wasn't passed on.

 

I really don't think I was being stroppy or unreasonably demanding, I was just politely asking for information, which they weren't the least bit interested in providing.

 

Has anyone else has this sort of "our way or no way" unfriendliness and inflexibility from Fiat Professional?

 

 

 

[Muswell]

I don't know about the feminist part of it but the diagnostic or nothing is the same with VW and Ford main dealers I have dealt with. I should think one reason for this is that they have had had bad experiences with owner-diagnosed faults and time-wasters.

[malc d]

It should be possible to phone one of these organisations a get a quote - even a ' ball-park' figure without paying anything at all.

 

Trouble is they are all becoming robots who only follow a script - computer programmes don't allow for initiative.

 

 

:-|

[StuartO]

I suppose the bulk of the profitable work for a commercial main dealerlike Fiat Professional will come from commercial firmson relatively new vans and trucks, so old men wanting a quote for work on an eleven year old Ducato-based MH aren't likely to be much of a prospect and the diagnostic check system provides a useful way of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

 

I think if I was managing a commercial dealership would still avoid confronting customers with a pair of like-minded feminists though!

 

[ColinM50]

Just had the same from Peugeot. Took delivery last week of a brand new Peugeot Boxer based m/h and checking the keys, one of the ignition keys turns the engine over, but it doesn't start. M/H dealer said take it to Peugeot and send them the bill. So I popped in to local dealer and was told I had to book in for half hour diagnostic check. But it's a frigging key I told the girlie and it just needs coding. To which she told me to book it in for diagnostic check, for £57 +VAT or if I think it's that easy, do it myself.

 

They kind of have us over a barrel, don't they?

[colin]

There's a reason I refer to them as Fiat (Un)Professional, just ring a commercial garage who are not main dealers.

[Mickt]

Just done a quick google about replacing my clutch, 2003 Ducato 2.8jtd. The price came back approx £450.00

[Ninian]

Totally agree, the Fiat Professional dealer in N Ireland is the same, I tried to deal with the Dealer Principal, Service Manager etc and got NO respect from anyone. Definitely the Motorhome customers are well down the pecking order probably because they are not making any profit from the original sale.

[henrypartridge]

My Fuat Professional NE Van and Truck are incredibly helpful. Just been in to get intermittent warning light checked. No charge

[Brian Kirby]

For most routine jobs there is a standard time allowance. That, times the workshop hourly rate, plus parts costs, plus VAT, should be what the job costs.

 

However, Stuart has an "A class" van, which may mean restricted access, so may possibly mean that the job can't be done in the same time as on an unmodified Ducato. That may be their reason for not wanting to give a price over the 'phone. Alternatively, they may just not wish to enter a telephone auction with all the local garages for the lowest quote.

 

Calling in to talk to them may get a better response (especially if you take the chassis number so that the exact parts can be identified) or, if you can get to him/her, talking to the workshop manager.

 

If you have a dig on the Fiat Professional website there are a number of Fiat approved workshops around Diss, though the only ones offering motorhome service are at Gt Yarmouth and Colchester. I'd be inclined to phone around, but ask whether they can get a vehicle the size of yours on their hoist, as some can't (usually due to wheelbase or width or, in some workshops, height). You should find someone who wants work and is prepared to give a rough order of cost over the 'phone. I assume the firm you approached in Diss is Desira Group?

 

Just make sure you get a price based on complete renewal, and not merely replacing the plate (though if yours has a dual mass flywheel, I don't think the plate only option is available).

 

Alternatively, if yours has a DMF (or possibly even if it hasn't), you may find an independent specialist, using non-Fiat parts, quite a bit cheaper.

 

Why not see if you can PM Nick Fisher on this, as I'd imagine he must be well versed in the niceties of clutch replacement on Ducatos. (My apologies to Nick for this suggestion, as it seems he's a bit under the cosh at present, but I'm sure he'll give you all the information you'll need once he has his head above water)

[Bop]

Stuart,

 

This seems to be the way of the world these days.

 

We bought a new Toyota Landcruiser last year only to have it breakdown North East of Fort William. It had 320-miles on the clock. As it turned out it had intermittent injector failure but when I went back to Toyota it stipulated that I had to first book it in for a diagnostic check (at my expense, circa £110) ) and that my costs for the diagnostics session would be reimbursed if the fault was deemed to be warranty related.

 

I phoned 'Toyota U.K.' to tell them that I was peeved off that the Taliban in Afghanistan could get 250,000 trouble free miles from their LCs and yet mine couldn't manage a 320-mile trip on motorways around the UK.

 

They wavered my diagnostic fee B-)

[Muswell]

Bop - 2017-03-31 8:45 AM

 

Stuart,

 

This seems to be the way of the world these days.

 

We bought a new Toyota Landcruiser last year only to have it breakdown North East of Fort William. It had 320-miles on the clock. As it turned out it had intermittent injector failure but when I went back to Toyota it stipulated that I had to first book it in for a diagnostic check (at my expense, circa £110) ) and that my costs for the diagnostics session would be reimbursed if the fault was deemed to be warranty related.

 

I phoned 'Toyota U.K.' to tell them that I was peeved off that the Taliban in Afghanistan could get 250,000 trouble free miles from their LCs and yet mine couldn't manage a 320-mile trip on motorways around the UK.

 

They wavered my diagnostic fee B-)

 

Sounds like the failure of my auto box on a T4 after 500 miles. After a lot of argument with VW Care about recovery they then couldn't say when a new box would come. After a some weeks VW agreed that the dealer could take the box out of a California demonstrator.... and a box then arrived the day after that was done. Vorsprung durch Technik. I got the next service free and £200 compensation, but I had to do some heavy duty ranting which impressed my Spanish colleague who didn't think the English could do that.

[colin]

Brian Kirby - 2017-03-30 7:27 PM

 

For most routine jobs there is a standard time allowance. That, times the workshop hourly rate, plus parts costs, plus VAT, should be what the job costs.

 

However, Stuart has an "A class" van, which may mean restricted access, so may possibly mean that the job can't be done in the same time as on an unmodified Ducato. That may be their reason for not wanting to give a price over the 'phone. Alternatively, they may just not wish to enter a telephone auction with all the local garages for the lowest quote.

 

Calling in to talk to them may get a better response (especially if you take the chassis number so that the exact parts can be identified) or, if you can get to him/her, talking to the workshop manager.

 

 

I have dealt with 4 different Fiat (Un)Professional garages, one was very good, the other three where useless, letting your dog crap in their reception would get a better response than calling in unannounced.

I had an intermittent fault with my van at just a few months old, standard procedure is to offer a chargeable diagnostics which will not be billed if a fault is found, it's a long story which i've no time to explain at moment, but mechanic had to fudge result and bodge a repair to keep the harridan on the front desk happy.

 

[euroserv]

I have half an hour between meetings!

 

It is increasingly common for dealers of all franchises to be reluctant to give a quote for anything that could be anything other than completely predictable in it's nature. Fixed pricing for service work is easy but even on a standard vehicle; there can be complications. For instance; last week we had a standard Ducato van in for a 'quick service' and while examining it i noticed that the front brake discs were dangerously thin, 3.5mm 'thinner' than the minimum. The customer agreed to having new discs and pads and this is normally done in less than an hour. This was not the case because the discs were corroded so badly that no amount of heating up and hammering was going to get them off and after an hour and a half i proceeded to cut them off. The brake caliper sliders were seized in 3 out of 4 cases and these took a lot of time to dismantle and clean. The seals were perished and required replacement and these are not cheap items and are only available from Fiat in a kit.

The customer was very understanding and waited and watched as the work was done but had he previously called and asked for a quote and then was asked to pay more because of the complexity of the job and the extra parts required he could have either been understanding, unreasonable or upset but i can be sure that he would have been slightly suspicious and certainly not happy.

It might seem like poor customer service to ask that the vehicle is examined first, and i would be the first to say that £100 is just too much for this but i ask... would YOU; whatever your trade or occupation, offer a fixed price for anything that was not clearly defined? I think not. Garages, franchised or not, get a lot of stick when things go wrong and it only takes one or two customers that feel aggrieved before word gets around that they 'rip people off'.

 

I know of a number of garages that don't get involved with cam belts, clutches and other awkward and time consuming jobs any more. There are specialists out there but the risk of losing money or reputation is just too high so they stick to the more straightforward work.

 

There are many good examples around though. I took my Jeep in to a Jeep dealer a few weeks ago and described a problem that i was having with the passenger door mirror. They did not even look at the vehicle, ordered the part and asked me to come back a few days later for them to fit it, all under warranty. That felt very satisfactory indeed.

 

On the subject of the clutch; i think that if you have a quote of £450 for a 2.3 , A class vehicle and if the parts are either genuine, Valeo or Sachs with a two part clutch plus concentric slave cylinder and this includes labour; you should rip their arm off!

This job is booked at 8 hours for a standard vehicle and can take as little as 6 for a very experienced mechanic but can take 9 or 10 hours when access is limited. There is little chance that they will make a profit on that one!

 

N

 

Sorry; mis read above. £450 was for a 2.8JTD clutch and they don't need new slave cylinders at the same time (although recommended).

You should be expecting £600 to 700 plus a couple of hours 'contingency' for the limited access at a non-franchised dealer or a franchised one that is also a truck dealer and will negotiate on the labour rate.

[Matrix Meanderer]

You could try Desira at Bury St Edmunds. They service Ducato motorhomes and have the workshop capability for 3.5 tons. I have mine serviced there and can recommend them.

[StuartO]

I gave the MH a test drive and I'm confident about going to France; it was only a hint of suspicion about my clutch and my concerns have now gone. 

Not sure where I got it from but I had a figure of £1200 in mind for a clutch, and I expected the quote of £450 to turn out to be unavailable once I made contact. 

I think my point about employing two feminists and having no DP was however a fair cause for concern.  They were playing thing their way and clearly didn't mind if this old guy with an old vehicle went away or not. That's a bad way to deal with potential customers. 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

If you have a doubtful clutch and or a comfort-matic gear box you can have real problems to get it fixed. The last one especially. Most garages do not even touch it and refer you to main dealers whit expertise. They are not interested to loose money on it standing whit a motorhome for a week or so in their garage occupying large space.Or on some cases a month. The comfort- matic is a real disaster on repair track- record history.Depending on your travel check out whit fiat- prof were you are welcome for this kind of repairs.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

A fiat ducato as a tractor for a motorhome is the same as a standard commercial van regarding the power train and rear axle. Only in in case of a alko chassis you have another hand brake cable guiding , but still fiat brake system on the rear but whit a alko esp. So your front looks like a commercial van. All face lifts like the last one are visible but just a face lift whit some minor tech up date. Being ducato x290 on face but on ec approval still x250. In case of a integral you can get out of this face and do not like to look as the locals for a motorhome of such money.The front part of a integral motor home is weaker than of a std van. Whit some exceptions like N+B. That being said every garage of the tractor should be able to serve if they have lift equipment.

 

 

[StuartO]

Matrix Meanderer - 2017-04-01 9:16 AM

 

You could try Desira at Bury St Edmunds. They service Ducato motorhomes and have the workshop capability for 3.5 tons. I have mine serviced there and can recommend them.

 

I bounced this thread after another disappointing experience from a Fiat Professional Dealer in East Anglia - probably the Desira Group again because they are the only ones in this area. My dash aircon stopped working so I booked it into our local Toyota dealer, who had done exceptionally well with the aircon of one of our cars after a local garage ran out of ideas. They couldn’t do it - because (they told me) when they rang Fiat Professional for some information about how much gas to put in, the Fiat garage refused to help. (It seems garages pay a subscription for access to technical data and the Toyota only pays for car data because they rarely work on commercial chassis.)

 

It sounded like more of the same exploitive unhelpfulness from the Desira Group. I won’t be using them again unless I absolutely have to.

[Deneb]

I have no idea about the competence of Desira Group workshops, although other members will probably be aware of my distrust of most workshops. I can say though that Desira Group in Diss are very helpful on the parts department side and I have obtained parts from them cheaper than my local FP dealers are willing to supply them, even after delivery charges are taken into consideration.

 

As for the Toyota dealer, would they be willing to give out information on Toyotas free of charge to another workshop when they have to pay thousands of pounds a year to access it? I suspect not. But as a commercial enterprise, they are as entitled as any other to obtain servicing and repair information directly from Fiat at an online cost starting from 6 Euros an hour.

[trail66]

Hi saw your post and comments and subsequent comments. I am surprised the staff at Fiat Diss did not tell you that they do not accept motorhomes (unless they are van conversions) as their workshop/ramp layout will not accept vehicles over a certain length same for Gt Yarmouth branch which also excludes motorhomes.

I have tried this garage before and was directed to commercial garages in Norwich.

Simpsons at Gt Yarmouth are Fiat Professional and they have facilities for motorhomes. Having dealt with them before, I would have thought they would carry out a quick test for free?

[Yorkyrunner]

Just read your post on Fiat professional and I think that sounds a bit steep, however I think our local one in Hull is OK. Had to have the throttle body and wiring loom done. It went in France one day out of warranty but apart from the warning light coming on it only starting 2nd attempt we drove for another 1k miles. I usually had my servicing done by a franchise who were trained by the main Fiat dealers but Fiat said they would honour the warranty if I took it to the main dealers and they did a good job. Further on into my ownership I could not get a gear (comformatic) it was on site in Spain and I rang the Fiat assist and they got us to a Fiat pro garage 20 miles away from the site and despite it being a Friday they put it in right away and 3hrs later we were on our way. It turned out to be a leak from transmission resevoir and as they could not get the part till the following Tuesday they tried a plastic repair kit and then left it to set for a couple of hours to then pressure test it .We had a nice meal in the local restaurent they recomended whilst this took place. We drove another 1500 m,s before we got it the replacement part. So now back with a Fiat I am happy to use them from my experience with them.

[weldted]

Although a long way from you, I phoned our Plymouth City Bus depot where they do car and commercial servicing. Asked them to quote for to replace my clutch 2012 Boxer 130 they phoned me back 15 mins later £685 result.

[colin]

StuartO - 2019-06-08 10:00 AM

 

Matrix Meanderer - 2017-04-01 9:16 AM

 

You could try Desira at Bury St Edmunds. They service Ducato motorhomes and have the workshop capability for 3.5 tons. I have mine serviced there and can recommend them.

 

I bounced this thread after another disappointing experience from a Fiat Professional Dealer in East Anglia - probably the Desira Group again because they are the only ones in this area. My dash aircon stopped working so I booked it into our local Toyota dealer, who had done exceptionally well with the aircon of one of our cars after a local garage ran out of ideas. They couldn’t do it - because (they told me) when they rang Fiat Professional for some information about how much gas to put in, the Fiat garage refused to help. (It seems garages pay a subscription for access to technical data and the Toyota only pays for car data because they rarely work on commercial chassis.)

 

It sounded like more of the same exploitive unhelpfulness from the Desira Group. I won’t be using them again unless I absolutely have to.

 

Just had the system topped up on our van, (needed very little, was hardly worth doing) used our local garage, he checked on 'autodata' and found the info, but as he said there will be a label on the van, sure enough there was a label quoting amount and type of refrigerant.