eddiec1234 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Hi all first time user with a question I hope some of my be able to help me with. I have been motor homing for a number of years and am thinking of buying a new van I am considering a Fiat comfortmatiic version but seem to be having a problem finding out to much about it or how it works.As far as I can see you seem to be able to be fully automatic or manual allbeit without a clutch. Has anyone any experience of using comfortmatiic how does it perform, are there any problems, is it ok on say wet grass and getting up on levelling ramps etc Many thanks for any help or advice you can give Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 It is a standard six speed manual gearbox and clutch all of which are operated by servos under control from a computer. It has manual and Auto modes. In manual mode you use the gear lever as a sequential "paddle" type changer and the computer does the rest. In this mode it has certain no-go areas to prevent damage by selection of inappropriate gears, and will, for example, select first gear if you drive it to a standstill in, say, third. In Auto mode it makes changes in response to engine speed and accelerator demand, and to some extent in response to road conditions. However, it is not truly a full auto, and needs manual intervention to keep it in the appropriate gear under certain conditions, especially on winding uphill roads. It is possible to use the gear lever to manually "nudge" it to change up/down while in auto mode, though it often changes back to the gear it had previously selected unless the nudge is timed just right. It takes some learning to anticipate the way it will respond, and is really best seen as a clutchless manual with automated overrides in the one mode, and a manually assisted automatic in the other mode. Switches between manual and auto modes are via the gear lever, and can be made at any time while driving or when stationary (with the engine running). It is essential to press the brake when starting, and to press it to move to neutral (for example at traffic lights) from any gear whether selected automatically or manually, and to press the brake again to enter reverse, auto or manual modes to drive off. You have to stop the engine with a gear selected, it bleeps if the engine is stopped in neutral. On starting, you must immediately move to neutral (brake pedal) on starting the engine, and then select auto, manual, or reverse (brake pedal) to drive away. It is an expensive option and, FWIW, having now driven this Comfortmatic for just under 10,000 miles, unless one has a disability that makes driving with a manual gearbox problematic, I would say a conventional manual box is no more inconvenient overall in practise. It is quite OK in terms of traction control on soft ground, or in getting onto ramps, though both need some adaptation of technique as the computer, and not you, decides when to engage the clutch. Its real star turn is in making awkward uphill starts without the engine stalling, but overenthusiasm with the accelerator can, nevertheless, provoke momentary wheelspin before the computer intervenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiec1234 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Many thanks for all that Brian I think I will have to read it a few more times to fully understand but you seem answer most of my questions. Again many thanks Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Brian has provided an excellent summary of the workings of the Comfortmatic gearbox so nothing to add on the technical side. I have a hip problem and after a test drive in a manual I decided to go for the auto as I felt that I might have some problems with the manual on a long run. It was an expensive option as I also went with the 150 upgrade but I am really glad I did as it really adds to the pleasure of driving the van. It is so easy to use and more often than not it is in the correct gear. It will change down automatically if it detects that you are going downhill which is great for control. The only time I find it can get caught out is going uphill when it can decide to change down too late and you lose momentum. There are ways round this but before I explain you should understand how the gears stick works. If you imagine a traditional H pattern, on the right hand side up is neutral and down is reverse. If you put the stick in the middle you can then push it across to the other side of the H. If you push it across to the left once you are in manual mode. If you push it across a second time it will be in auto mode (you are pushing against a spring and it is more like a switch really) . Each time you push it to the left it will switch between manual and auto and it is easy to switch at any time. There is an indicator in the dashboard that tells you if you are in manual or auto and which ratio you are in. If you go into manual mode you can then decide when to change gear by pushing the stick up for an up change and down for a down change. As I said, the gearstick does not really move like a normal manual box as you are just pushing against a spring so it is more like a switch. If you are in auto and want to override the ratio chosen you can do this in two ways. As Brian said, you can give the box a temporary 'nudge' up or down by pressing the gearstick up or down. If you thought the engine was going to labour going uphill and that the auto system might do this too late you could nudge the stick down for a lower gear. What can happen is that the auto system almost immediately decides you have made a mistake and changes back up again but this depends on engine load and throttle position. I have found that you can get round this by pressing down on the accelerator at the same time as you give the box a nudge. I think this works because you are letting the auto system know that you need more power and it stops it changing up. The other way to get round this is to simply push the stick across to the left into manual mode then push down for a lower gear. As you are now in manual mode the box will not override your choice and go back up a gear. When I encounter a road which is winding and/or hilly I will engage manual as I can chose a lower gear for more control and to save the box changing up just when I am entering a bend say and want a lower gear. The auto box is very good and very smart but it can't see the road ahead. I know that some expensive cars now use GPS and cameras to read the road ahead and make more informed gear changes but this is basically a commercial vehicle so such technology is not in reach. I have not found any problems with traction or hills or reversing or getting up onto ramps - the auto has good control at slow speeds and does not lurch violently or get out of control. Coming to a halt on an incline is a bit tricky as you should not allow the box to slip the clutch to maintain position - you must come to a halt and apply the handbrake. I think some vans have an auto hill hold system but mine does not. I get round this by braking to a halt on a hill with my left foot to save having to use the handbrake which is a fair old stretch. It takes a bit of practice to do it smoothly and safely. The auto will kickdown a gear or two if you want to overtake quickly and it sensing this from throttle position. Sometimes I will go into manual mode first then drop a gear or two manually as this can be quicker than relying on the kickdown facility as I am ready to go when it is safe to overtake. Overall I really like the Comfortmatic box and find it a pleasure to use so would heartily recommend it. As far as I am concerned it makes driving the van so much more relaxing, especially in tricky conditions and stop/start traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'm a big fan of it, yes it does have a few quirks but they are insignificant compared to the easier driving experience no way would I ever go back to a manual box on a Motorhome. As Don says you have to be careful not to creep on hills if in a traffic jam or you soon get a burning clutch smell, don't need to worry about using handbrake or left foot braking as the hill holder works well. When I first got the van I didn't like the small brake peddle as it made left foot braking very awkward (I'm used to driving autos with big peddle) I soon adapted never use my left foot now. Well worth the extra money, I didn't think it was that expensive you pay the same for an auto on a car that costs a quarter of the price so as a percentage it's cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiec1234 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Again many thanks for all these replies think I will have to read though them a few times to make my mind up more information here than I could find anywhere else, must say I'm still a bit worried about the lack of a clutch in some situations. Again thanks for all the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 We have the Comfortmatic on our 130bhp. It took me time 6,000 miles and about a year to get used to it so a test drive probably wouldn't give you a favourable feel for the Comfortmatic. It does change gear inappropriately when I traipse around the Pennines. I deal with this by reverting to manual which is simply a flick to the left. However, for the majority of the time in the UK, it works well in automatic mode. It tries to keep the engine at 2000rpm which suits the 130bhp engine. Fuel consumption started at a disappointing 26mpg but after 9,000 miles I'm disappointed if I fall below 28mpg. I expect 30mpg+ on cross country routes such Wirral to Lincoln or to Peterborough. I think this has been helped by working better with the Comfortmatic. I have adjusted my driving style to work with the Comfortmatic and it responds by providing a more relaxed drive. Though relaxed might not be the word when going on to a roundabout from a stop as acceleration in first gear is pedestrian. Changing manual gears was never onerous for me but I just feel better using the auto setting. Setting off can be irritating. Unless you follow the prescribed procedures - I sometimes forget - you get enough warning beeps to satisfy an orchestra. Never had problems getting off wet grass but then again, never have in the past. Presume you could use the manual option. In auto mode, it gives a smooth drive up ramps and makes tight manoeuvres,, such as getting into my drive, easy. There have been reports of faults developing with the Comfortmatic although there are an increasing number of people using it so its difficult to accurately assess reliability. If you have restricted mobility for changing gears, then it is a cost effective solution. If you do not, then what value do you put on a marginally more relaxed drive, possibly slightly better fuel consumption and less wear on the engine? Not quite enough in my opinion to justify the cost unless you do high mileage. But if you do go for it, I doubt you will be disappointed in its performance. Make sure you visit the Fiat Camper website and perhaps its Facebook page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 eddiec1234 - 2014-10-05 3:03 PM Again many thanks for all these replies think I will have to read though them a few times to make my mind up more information here than I could find anywhere else, must say I'm still a bit worried about the lack of a clutch in some situations. Again thanks for all the help It's no problem at all, it may be a little hesitant pulling away when brand new once it's done 500-1000 miles it's perfect. I reverse up to 2-3 inches of the fascia board on my garage using the reversing camera without any drama. Brian & John both commented on it being expensive I don't see that, buy a car for £15000 auto is around £1500 (10%), Comformatic cost me about €1650 after discount that's about £1300 at current exchange rates, on say a 70k Motohome that's only 1.9%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I assume your concern about there being no clutch is that you will somehow have insufficient control when manoeuvring at slow speeds and that the van will shoot forward and perhaps crash into something. In a manual you obviously have full control over speed and clutch slip and can balance the two as necessary. I am not quite sure how the Comfortmatic box manages clutch slip to move off smoothly but I can assure you that it manages this with no problems and the clutch is not just dumped with the van lurching forward so it must feed the clutch in taking account of the amount of acceleration applied and load. I would not worry about this at all. It generally changes gear much more smoothly than I could manage with a manual box and I consider myself to be a smooth driver. As has been said earlier in this thread there is a fair amount of hesitation when trying to move off smartly at a junction which can catch you out if you are not careful. I believe it is better to move off without too much throttle and let the box change up into second as quickly as possible then apply more throttle rather than trying to floor it but you need to pick your gap carefully. I have wondered if it might be better to move off in manual to see if that would work better but to be honest it is not really that much of a problem to warrant the hassle. The van weighs 3 1/2 tonnes so is no sports car and will never move off that quickly. I wonder if anyone on here can tell us how a manual van gets off the line compared to an auto - it also a bit sluggish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitches Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I have used an 'auto clutch' for the past year fitted by Carfi, found it excellent and economical as in charge of gear changes etc. We have an auto car. Will pick up new MH this week and have had 'auto clutch' fitted to that also. I lack use of my left leg so auto of some description essential. It is slower to pull away than a normal manual but I learnt to pre empt situations in order to be away from the 'start line on time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The Comfortmatic gearbox is probably one of the best on the market. I've mentioned on here before that the Lancashire Ambulance service has a fleet of them working 24 hrs a day and are averaging very high mileages before a clutch needs replacing. On the 3ltr engine side your looking at a minimum 250,000 miles before any work might need doing. that is from the service manager at Walton Summit Trucks who services the fleet. I run a 3ltr Comfortmatic and it's a very relaxing drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 As the Clutch is integral in the Comformatic set-up ( ie The Driver does not choose to operate the clutch,the computer does) does that mean that the Clutch linings are Included in the 3 year warranty now ? After all, they were only left out of the Warranty because 'Driving style' could affect clutch wear, that is now not the case. Any comments on this ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Good point Ray, but driving style does effect the clutch behavior, crawling up hill in slow moving traffic you soon get burning clutch smell as Don says you need to stop/start in such situations also like the manual version not a good idea to reverse onto ramps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiec1234 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Yet again many thanks to everyone for bothering to reply think I understand it a lot better now. Eddiec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 There are many 3 axle Comfortmatics towing cars behind them so I would imagine the combined weight would be quite high and I've not heard of any owner mentioning a clutch failure. These are very robust vehicles and the 3ltr engine was originally used in the American Hummer combat truck. Once over people used to shy away from automatics but today there is an increase in Automatic Heavy Commercial vehicles on the road because they are so reliable and user friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-10-05 6:28 PM Good point Ray, but driving style does effect the clutch behavior, crawling up hill in slow moving traffic you soon get burning clutch smell as Don says you need to stop/start in such situations also like the manual version not a good idea to reverse onto ramps. Surely having to crawl uphill in slow moving traffic, is not a 'driving style' chosen by the driver, but a normal circumstance of driving, do you mean trying to 'hold it on the clutch' (a manual gearbox term ) when stopped in this situation ? I have to reverse up a steep driveway at home (i have a 6 speed manual) there is literally just a 'fag papers' clearance (unladen) of the long rear overhang, and my Clutch does definately NOT like it, even at 'Wheelspinningly' high revs, I was hoping to change to a Comfortmatic to calm the situation a bit. But ONLY if the Clutch linings are warranted for 3 years, as any Automatic gearbox WOULD be. ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yes I really meant holding on a hill by using the throttle, like you say on a manual it would be slipping the clutch, all the time it's moving it's fine. Only ever done it once you soon get the hang of how to drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Love ours.Been driving and towing with automatics for a long time.In the past caravans including a big twin axle and now for my sins a horse trailer complete with horse.The comformatic is not quite so slick as a full automatic c and hasn't got hill hold which surprised me but I hav e now driven about 5000 miles and both the OH and I think it was money well spent. We have used it to put the van on chocks no probs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 The handbrake is provided for hill starts as well as parking. Have you folks forgotten how to drive? No clutch is designed to be abused in this way. You can't expect a warranty to cover your shortcomings as a driver. Comfort matic is brilliant but it cannot be regarded as a miracle cure or the same as a torque converter auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Poppy - 2014-10-07 9:56 AM Love ours.Been driving and towing with automatics for a long time.In the past caravans including a big twin axle and now for my sins a horse trailer complete with horse.The comformatic is not quite so slick as a full automatic c and hasn't got hill hold which surprised me but I hav e now driven about 5000 miles and both the OH and I think it was money well spent. We have used it to put the van on chocks no probs as well. I thought Hill Hold was standard with the Comformatic box, maybe it's up to the converter to spec it, I know all Hymer's have it manual & auto versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Rayjsj - 2014-10-06 3:08 PM.............I have to reverse up a steep driveway at home (i have a 6 speed manual) there is literally just a 'fag papers' clearance (unladen) of the long rear overhang, and my Clutch does definately NOT like it, even at 'Wheelspinningly' high revs, I was hoping to change to a Comfortmatic to calm the situation a bit. But ONLY if the Clutch linings are warranted for 3 years, as any Automatic gearbox WOULD be. ? Ray The comfortmatic is not an automatic, it is a robotised manual transmission which retains all the parts of a manual transmission, but adds computerised servos to do the clutch work and gear shifting. Under the circumstances you describe, I'd anticipate you would find the clutch would not fully engage until you were travelling backward at too high a speed for comfort/safety, because part of the package is load sensing that ensures the engine revs are adequate for the load being applied. Steep drive = higher revs = higher roadspeed when clutch engaged. Anything less would involve a series of prods of the accelerator to initiate clutch engagement, but backing off before the roadspeed got uncomfortably high, and so on up the drive, or trying to tickle the revs up just enough to keep the clutch slipping while also keeping the roadspeed low. Both would have much the same effect on the clutch, IMO, as with a manual transmission, but with rather less control over exactly what happens and when. What I think you really need is a full auto; meaning, I think, a Sprinter base (sludge stirrer plus mechanical lock-up) - or a shallower drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 euroserv - 2014-10-07 10:05 AM The handbrake is provided for hill starts as well as parking. Have you folks forgotten how to drive? No clutch is designed to be abused in this way. You can't expect a warranty to cover your shortcomings as a driver. Comfort matic is brilliant but it cannot be regarded as a miracle cure or the same as a torque converter auto. Agreed Nick, but the hill holder integrates beautifully with the Comfortmatic (all computers, innit! :-)), and as the reach to the handbrake lever is a bit long (swivel seatbases raising the seats and all that), a good prod on the footbrake and then down on the accelerator works extremely well with absolutely no tendency to roll back, which is otherwise a risk while trying to sync handbrake release with the Comfortmatic's idea of when to engage the clutch. Specifying Comfortmatic without hill holder on a (relatively heavy) motorhome with swivel front seats, seems to me spoiling the ship for the proverbial hap'oth of tar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 lennyhb - 2014-10-07 10:51 AM Poppy - 2014-10-07 9:56 AM Love ours.Been driving and towing with automatics for a long time.In the past caravans including a big twin axle and now for my sins a horse trailer complete with horse.The comformatic is not quite so slick as a full automatic c and hasn't got hill hold which surprised me but I hav e now driven about 5000 miles and both the OH and I think it was money well spent. We have used it to put the van on chocks no probs as well. I thought Hill Hold was standard with the Comformatic box, maybe it's up to the converter to spec it, I know all Hymer's have it manual & auto versions. Ours came without.We were not informed about that or given the option of having one which we would undoubtably have taken.Having said that we manage perfectly well with the handbrake, its just not so convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-10-07 11:16 AM euroserv - 2014-10-07 10:05 AM The handbrake is provided for hill starts as well as parking. Have you folks forgotten how to drive? No clutch is designed to be abused in this way. You can't expect a warranty to cover your shortcomings as a driver. Comfort matic is brilliant but it cannot be regarded as a miracle cure or the same as a torque converter auto. Agreed Nick, but the hill holder integrates beautifully with the Comfortmatic (all computers, innit! :-)), and as the reach to the handbrake lever is a bit long (swivel seatbases raising the seats and all that), a good prod on the footbrake and then down on the accelerator works extremely well with absolutely no tendency to roll back, which is otherwise a risk while trying to sync handbrake release with the Comfortmatic's idea of when to engage the clutch. Specifying Comfortmatic without hill holder on a (relatively heavy) motorhome with swivel front seats, seems to me spoiling the ship for the proverbial hap'oth of tar. Not trying to save money.Didn't know it didn't have it.Every automatic I have ever driven has had one.Never crossed my mind that this one didn't and the dealer didn't enlighten us.However we do manage perfectly well with the old fashioned hand brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Funnily enough, the one I drive was the first one to arrive in the UK in 2008 and even with the full options list at my disposal I assumed it would come with hill holder and it did not. My price list said it was a linked option with Comfort matic and there was no extra cost for hill holder. Apparently I had to tick the box even though it was free and inextricably linked! Since then it has become a completely separate option and has it's own cost. Would i order it for future vehicles? Dunno. I manage just fine without. Would I order one without a rear camera? Hell no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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