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Fiat deadlocks


Brian Kirby

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I note that X290 Ducatos can be specified with factory fitted deadlocks. These work to prevent the doors (I assume cab doors only) being opened by breaking a window and reaching in to use the internal door releases. Activated by a double press on the remote "lock" button.

Does anyone have a van so equipped? If so, do you find them satisfactory in normal use?

Further, has anyone investigated getting these locks retro-fitted? If so, what were the complications and approximate cost please? It seems it should be relatively simple to do, but is it? :-D

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They are standard I believe on current UK specification vehicles, but omitted by default on vehicles built for many other markets. I have them on my van, and they work as intended. My only criticism is that they can only be deadlocked using the remote fob as you describe. On several other vehicle that I have owned or driven, deadlocks could usually also be set by using the key blade in the driver's door lock, i.e. by turning the cylinder in one direction momentarily and then the other, or by turning and releasing, and turning a second time. As the van comes as standard with only one remote fob and a mechanical key, it does mean that if two occupants each have a key, only one can set the deadlocks unless you pay extra for a second remote.

 

Edited to add: On a coachbuilt cab conversion, I assume they will only work on the cab doors, unless the converter can connect into the system in some way to add the functionality to the habitation door. On a panel van, they work on the cab, rear and sliding side door locks.

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Thanks for this Deneb. That is good to know.

 

Im really interested to know if anyone has looked into retro-fitting the deadlocks, especially to the cab doors, and what was involved, at what cost. The cab doors seem to me more vulnerable to break in than the side, or rear, door.

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Brian,

 

I don't know for sure, but having an idea how these things work on modern vehicles, I suspect retro fitting the Fiat system might involve replacing the body computer, as on the Ducato these seem to be configured to the specification of an individual vehicle at the factory, and whilst some subsequent additions to the vehicle can be activated by diagnostic equipment connected to the vehicle once the physical components are in place, I'm not aware of central locking being one of them.

 

It might be simpler, and certainly more cost effective, to fit a couple of the Heosafe or similar internal cab door locks, possibly together with external ProPlates

 

https://www.tvl-ltd.co.uk/vehicles/fiat/ducato-2006-present/fiat-ducato-2006-present-proplate

 

These consist of an external stainless steel plate which surrounds and sits beneath the external door lock handle, together with an internal steel box that encloses the lock mechanism and prevents the common method of opening the doors by pushing a screwdriver or small blade through the door skin around the lock handle to manipulate the internal levers.

 

I have fitted ProPlates to my van, since although I have central locking, it could be possible to disable it by the method I've described, as manipulation of the mechanism inside the door could have the same effect as using the key blade in the lock.

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Brian Kirby - 2018-02-01 1:05 PM

 

Thanks for this Deneb. That is good to know.

 

Im really interested to know if anyone has looked into retro-fitting the deadlocks, especially to the cab doors, and what was involved, at what cost. The cab doors seem to me more vulnerable to break in than the side, or rear, door.

 

Hi Brian We have fitted them to our van 3 years ago. OH did it , just have to fit internally/ Really work well. Can only be opened from inside the van via a key.,So i if used ,during the day would have to leave via caravan door, which we also have a extra lock fitted to, which can be locked from inside.

I will have to look at the keys to see the make, and get back to you

P

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PJay - 2018-02-01 4:40 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2018-02-01 1:05 PM

 

Thanks for this Deneb. That is good to know.

 

Im really interested to know if anyone has looked into retro-fitting the deadlocks, especially to the cab doors, and what was involved, at what cost. The cab doors seem to me more vulnerable to break in than the side, or rear, door.

 

Hi Brian We have fitted them to our van 3 years ago. OH did it , just have to fit internally/ Really work well. Can only be opened from inside the van via a key.,So i if used ,during the day would have to leave via caravan door, which we also have a extra lock fitted to, which can be locked from inside.

I will have to look at the keys to see the make, and get back to you

P

 

The make of lock is HEOSafe, and the one on the caravan door is Milenco

OH fitted them , so aesy DIY job

P

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The locks are Heosafe, I have just purchased a pair (from Outdoor bits see below) and they will be fitted this week. They lock with a key from the inside so if the window is broken it is not possible to open the door. We had a pair on our last van, with the radio fob style opening of the doors it did not give me confidence.

Now I will investigate how to fit a lock on the Dethleffs habitation door, the previous Hymer had a position within the door for a second lock.

Heosafe

david@outdoorbits.com

Répondre|

mar. 16/01, 16:36

Vous

http://www.heosolution.de/pdf/Schablone-REMIS-4-Duc.250-Art.12646-12656.pdf

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Deneb - 2018-01-31 12:56 PM

 

They are standard I believe on current UK specification vehicles, but omitted by default on vehicles built for many other markets.

 

I'm sure DeneB is right - we are on our third van, all French conversions, respectively: Rapido; Chausson and another Rapido. And none of them have had deadlocks - I've carefully checked each.

 

Just as an aside, and almost certainly not what you are looking for - we have a simple action when vehicle security might be an issue.

 

We turn the driver and passenger seat through 90 degrees and push them as far back as they will go into the doors. Then ensure the armrests are in the down position. Depending on the design of the van, if somebody does get through a cab door they are met by a seat back blocking the way, which is difficult / impossible to turn from outside.

 

Our last van, it really was impossible - tried a number of times and just couldn't do it. Current van, on the drivers side - with a great deal of effort and knowledge of what you are doing, it is eventually possible to turn the seat - but still a good deterrent.

 

Though obviously not the same or quite as convenient as deadlocks - but no costs or fittings required - nice and simple.

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The ‘dead lock’ feature will be described in your Ducato Owner Handbook in the “Doors” section (check your Handbook’s Index for the relevant start-page).

 

As has been said above, activating dead-locking involves two short presses on the ‘lock button’ of the remote key fob. Activation is indicated by three flashes of the direction indicators and a flash of the LED on the dashboard ‘lock’ button.

 

If two short presses on the ‘lock button’ of the remote key fob produces three flashes of the direction indicators and a flash of the LED on the dashboard ‘lock’ button, then your Bessacarr should have dead-locking.

 

If two short presses on the ‘lock button’ of the remote key fob DOES NOT produce three flashes of the direction indicators and a flash of the LED on the dashboard ‘lock’ button, then your Bessacarr DOES NOT have dead-locking.

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EMS - 2018-02-04 3:19 PM

 

The locks are Heosafe, I have just purchased a pair (from Outdoor bits see below) and they will be fitted this week. They lock with a key from the inside so if the window is broken it is not possible to open the door. We had a pair on our last van, with the radio fob style opening of the doors it did not give me confidence.

Now I will investigate how to fit a lock on the Dethleffs habitation door, the previous Hymer had a position within the door for a second lock.

Heosafe

david@outdoorbits.com

Répondre|

mar. 16/01, 16:36

Vous

http://www.heosolution.de/pdf/Schablone-REMIS-4-Duc.250-Art.12646-12656.pdf

 

That's the ones my husband fitted! Also fitted a milenco to the hab door, which can be locked from inside by a lever , and outside by the key. Bought from Southdowns I believe !

PJay

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breakaleg - 2018-02-05 10:51 AM

 

Hi Brian,

The dedlock works on mine but if used the interior alarm sensors are switched off, ok if you want to sleep safe and secure.

Pete

 

It is dangerous to set the factory deadlocks whilst you are in the vehicle. They are designed to prevent an unoccupied vehicle from being entered by smashing a window and opening the doors using the internal lock handles.

 

If you have an emergency or other problem whilst you are inside the vehicle, which has incapacitated the electrical system or locking function, there is no way out unless you have a backup plan such as the intention and capability to climb out of a Polyplastic or Seitz plastic window.

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Derek Uzzell - 2018-02-05 9:10 AM

 

The ‘dead lock’ feature will be described in your Ducato Owner Handbook in the “Doors” section (check your Handbook’s Index for the relevant start-page).

 

As has been said above, activating dead-locking involves two short presses on the ‘lock button’ of the remote key fob. Activation is indicated by three flashes of the direction indicators and a flash of the LED on the dashboard ‘lock’ button.

 

If two short presses on the ‘lock button’ of the remote key fob produces three flashes of the direction indicators and a flash of the LED on the dashboard ‘lock’ button, then your Bessacarr should have dead-locking.

 

If two short presses on the ‘lock button’ of the remote key fob DOES NOT produce three flashes of the direction indicators and a flash of the LED on the dashboard ‘lock’ button, then your Bessacarr DOES NOT have dead-locking.

Or alternatively, try two quick presses on the lock button while in the cab, and then see if you can open the cab doors using the internal door release. If the internal door release doesn't unlock the doors, you have the deadlocks, and if the doors unlock, you don't!

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Deneb - 2018-02-05 11:32 AM...................It is dangerous to set the factory deadlocks whilst you are in the vehicle. They are designed to prevent an unoccupied vehicle from being entered by smashing a window and opening the doors using the internal lock handles.

 

If you have an emergency or other problem whilst you are inside the vehicle, which has incapacitated the electrical system or locking function, there is no way out unless you have a backup plan such as the intention and capability to climb out of a Polyplastic or Seitz plastic window.

Agreed there is a risk of that happening, but I dont think I would rate that as being dangerous. After all, one would:

a) have to be inside the van with the doors deadlocked,

b) suffer an electrical failure that affected the locking system, and

c) concurrently suffer an emergency that resulted in a need for rapid exit.

 

While I agree that is possible, it would be quite a coincidence of events before an inconvenience became an actual danger (presumed to life).

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Brian Kirby - 2018-02-05 11:46 AM

 

Agreed there is a risk of that happening, but I dont think I would rate that as being dangerous. After all, one would:

a) have to be inside the van with the doors deadlocked,

b) suffer an electrical failure that affected the locking system, and

c) concurrently suffer an emergency that resulted in a need for rapid exit.

 

While I agree that is possible, it would be quite a coincidence of events before an inconvenience became an actual danger (presumed to life).

 

As breakaleg has now indicated that the deadlocking does not apply to the rear (hab?) door, I agree it's not such an issue. In a PVC, with deadlocking activated on all doors, in the event of a fire or other similar sudden emergency and needing to open a door you would be totally reliant on the remote fob being instantly at hand, or being able to get the key into and energising the ignition, in either case with the locking system still electrically working. There would be no other way to unlock the doors.

 

I'd agree that any danger is remote, but possibly a similar risk to driving without wearing a seatbelt. Most people who do that get away with it and will never suffer any ill effects. I know from professional experience that some don't get away with it, and a proportion of them never get a second chance.

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This 2012 forum thread discussed dead-locking on X250-based motorhomes

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Boxer-X250-Deadlocks/26127/#M309734

 

Regarding Elddis motorhomes, in the 2011 (and earlier but not later) Owners Handbooks for the “Autoquest” range is the statement

 

"Exterior Doors Retainers

The exterior door can be secured to the side of the motorhome by pushing the door retainer into the spring clip.To comply with European Standards, the exterior door lock must not be replaced with a double dead lock.”

 

It’s possible then that - for coachbuilt motorhomes - even if the vehicle’s central-locking system includes the habitation area’s entrance-door (as is the case with my Rapido) and has the dead-locking feature (which my Rapido lacks) the habitation area’s entrance-door may never be dead-locked.

 

It’s easy enough to check whether dead-locking is operative by following Brian’s advice in his posting of 5 February 2018 11:37 AM above. If the habitation-door is included in the motorhome’s central-locking, having confirmed that it is possible to dead-lock the cab doors, it would be sensible to check that the habitation-door can still be opened from inside via its handle.

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Hi Brian. Not sure if the following will help. I have a coachbuilt on a Peugeot X2/90 bought new in September 2015. I was aware that it did not have the deadlock function and the hand book suggested it was an optional extra. I did try it with the fob and the first press of the lock button did lock the cab doors and a second press produced a faint click inside both doors. The doors could be opened from the inside.

However the vehicle was taken to the local Peugeot main dealer to have the instrument panel replaced which initially involved a diagnostic test. This was in 2016. I asked the service manager if the technician would see if there was a way of activating the deadlock function if it had not been activated in the manufacturing stage because the chassis/cab was destined to be a motorhome and it was a health and safety issue. I was told it was not possible. A short time later at home I was in the cab checking things over before a trip to France and I locked the cab doors with the fob. I pressed the lock button for a second time and heard a clunk coming from both cab doors instead of the usual faint click. I tried to open the doors from inside the cab and much to my surprise both were deadlocked.

Not sure if it is possible with the Fiat version.

Although I am probably shown as a new member I have been an avid user of the forum as a guest since I bought my first motorhome in 1998.

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accordoman - 2018-02-07 10:13 AM....................A short time later at home I was in the cab checking things over before a trip to France and I locked the cab doors with the fob. I pressed the lock button for a second time and heard a clunk coming from both cab doors instead of the usual faint click. I tried to open the doors from inside the cab and much to my surprise both were deadlocked.

Not sure if it is possible with the Fiat version.............................

I'll give it a try, thank you.

 

On the face of it, it is illogical that the deadlocking only works from inside, as one might think it would be in greatest demand when locking, and leaving, the van - meaning it should work equally well when activated from outside.

 

As it seems yours doesn't, and as you're using the same fob to lock in both cases, might it be worth taking it back to the dealer, demonstrating both cases, and asking him if he can explain why. I suppose it may be that the fob, or the battery, isn't capable of generating a sufficiently strong signal to activate the deadlocking from outside, though I can't quite imagine why/how!

 

Just to say tried it, and it doesn't work for ours!

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My Fiat Owner Handbook says

 

“Pressing the (lock symbol) button on the remote control twice in quick succession activates the dead lock device”.

 

The “twice in quick succession” advice is important. If the button is pressed once the doors will lock, but if there’s a ‘wait’ before pressing the button again, the system will just attempt to relock the already-locked doors, but will not dead-lock them. This would explain why accordoman heard the loud ‘clunk’ normally made when the cab doors lock on the 1st button-press and just a muted ‘click’ on the 2nd button-press. To dead-lock the doors the button has to be pressed TWICE RAPIDLY and the resulting ‘two stage’ sounds will differ from when the button is pressed once.

 

My Ducato (that does not have the dead-locking option) acts similarly noise-wise. If I press the lock-button once there will be a loud clunk as the door-locks operate, and if I press the lock-button again there will be a much quieter noise because the door-lock mechanisms have already moved into their locked position.

 

My Skoda car’s locks are vice versa. Pressing the key-fob’s lock-button once activates double-locking (ie. dead-locking) pressing it a 2nd time disables double-locking but still leaves the doors locked. It’s easy to hear the locks ‘double-locking' and easy to hear the locks reverting to ‘single-locking’. But if there’s a delay of more than a second or two between the 1st and 2nd button-presses, the doors stay double-locked.

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