bobalobs Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 In thepost today a spare wheel recall letter for our 2010 Fiat built PVC. It is fitted with what we thought is the latest system. The winding handle goes in just behind the rear mudflap. It is a real pain to get to our nearest "van capable" Fiat dealer. Any views from you experts as towhether this is an admin error with us having the latest systhem or is there a problem with the latest system? Away till Sunday but will thank all responses on my return and if advised spend Monday morning on the phone finding a sensible fiat garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 We had our 2010 Bolero done a few months ago although we, too, had a 'later' version of the winder. In fairness to Fiat they are going through all the vehicles in sequence/batches and they must have come to the 2010 vans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I am not surprised at all Bobalobs, We noticed missing wheels in 2007 and assumed them to be stolen. We ordered carriers and wheels and fitted them. They were the same as originally fitted. The next batch were slightly modified and had a different part number and in 2008 we tried to order some more and there were none available on the old part number and 'delayed' for the new part number. I enquired of Fiat directly at the end of 2008 and was informed that the new items had arrived at the factory and were not of merchantable quality. This was the primary reason why even the Maxi vans no longer had spare wheels as standard; it became a £90 option! The latest design carriers did not become available until mid 2010 and that is when spare wheels became standard fitment once again! My guess is that any vehilce that had a spare from the factory during 2009 and 2010 is also affected by the recall since the modified carriers were still not up to scratch until (probably) September 2010 build. Thankfully, all of our vehicles have now been fitted with the latest carriers now and a total of 8 vans which had 'lost' their spare wheels have had these replaced as well. If you or anyone you know was ever hit by one of these wheels falling off one of my vans I apologise; but financial recompense would have to be sought from Fiat (since they have admitted to messing it up!). Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 You may wish to have a look through this thread, this will show you what the problem has been>>>>> http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=22828&start=91 Some of the pics will give you the essence of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskers Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Just had my 2009 Citroen Relay done. It took Autoworld at Chesterfield just over 2 hours to complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 Thanks for the helpful replies. It is a Maxi van but from Nick's posting it looks as though we have the mark 3 rather than the mark 4 modified carrier.I hope there is not a mark 5 due shortly!! Will report back anything of interest once I have had the job done. As my wife bluntly put it --" Why are they faffing around with a cable? Why not a tray as in the old days!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Following my last posting I tried to contact the Fiat van agent on the list supplied by Fiat and who had carried out our earlier recall work for gearbox bolts. Turned out the dealer ceased trading last November. So much for the list! Just returned from having the recall done at another dealer who was helpful and the mechanic seemed to know his stuff. Told me our Maxi van was already fitted with the latest system but it must have been made at the time of the changeover but he had fitted a new one as that was what Fiat had directed. Seems Fiat are being over cautious which makes a welcome change from their attitude in the early days of "Juddergate". He did point out to me a clear window on the winding mechanism and explained that a yellow marker will show through the window when the wheel is fully wound up and not to try and wind it further as that had been a cause of problems. I did not notice the window on the original fitting so perhaps there has been an update . Our base vehicle was built in Jan 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 In response to Fiat's recall notice I was told by the Fiat dealership that I had the most recent wheel carrier fitted on my vehicle bought in April 2010 with chassis number starting in 172. The carrier had access to the winding mechanism through the side of the offside rear wheel arch and the dealer said a new mechanism was not required and that it was only the rear door access mechanism that required replacement.. Thinking about the situation afterwards I e mailed the Fiat dealer telling them that I was surprised Fiat's recall letter was incorrect and said that I would hold the dealership responsible if anything went wrong. Shortly afterwards I received a call from the dealership saying that on receipt of my e mail they had spoken to Fiat who stated the new carrier must be fitted. As a warning to everyone if you have a recall notice make sure the Fiat dealership carries out the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Mine was done this morning - see post above. The service manager told me that some of the earlier modifications done will have to be recalled by Fiat again as they had fitted the spare wheel carrier that I had on mine from new that is the side access version and not the even earlier version with access from the rear. The latest modification is the one with the yellow marker when viewed through the clear glass window from the off side wheel arch. If anyone does not have this version their vehicles could well be recalled for the second time. Having said that I have been given some inaccurate information previously by this dealer so whether this is true only time will tell. Perhaps euroserve will be able to clarify the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 euroserv - 2012-03-15 1:13 PM I am not surprised at all Bobalobs, We noticed missing wheels in 2007 and assumed them to be stolen. We ordered carriers and wheels and fitted them. They were the same as originally fitted. The next batch were slightly modified and had a different part number and in 2008 we tried to order some more and there were none available on the old part number and 'delayed' for the new part number. I enquired of Fiat directly at the end of 2008 and was informed that the new items had arrived at the factory and were not of merchantable quality. This was the primary reason why even the Maxi vans no longer had spare wheels as standard; it became a £90 option! The latest design carriers did not become available until mid 2010 and that is when spare wheels became standard fitment once again! My guess is that any vehilce that had a spare from the factory during 2009 and 2010 is also affected by the recall since the modified carriers were still not up to scratch until (probably) September 2010 build. Thankfully, all of our vehicles have now been fitted with the latest carriers now and a total of 8 vans which had 'lost' their spare wheels have had these replaced as well. If you or anyone you know was ever hit by one of these wheels falling off one of my vans I apologise; but financial recompense would have to be sought from Fiat (since they have admitted to messing it up!). Nick So anyone who has a Fiat without a spare wheel fitted only has to start searching roadside hedges to find one of those Nick's vans dropped. :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everhopeful Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Mine's an 08 Pug with the winder on the nearside, and many months ago I was sent a VOSA recall notice. The dealer quickly checked and pronounced that only the rear access mechanisms were faulty so mine was ok.. I've now received another VOSA recall for the same thing and am wondering if this is a blunder, or maybe the problem really does affect more vans than at first thought.. I don't have a window with a yellow marker and don't have a spring under the centre wheel support, so maybe they should all have these now. Most references in a previous thread mention the rear or offside winder, so has anyone else with a nearside winder had the mechanism changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Does anyone else get the feeling right hand left hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Does anyone else get the feeling right hand left hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I doubt whether it is a blunder. See my post above. If you don't have the yellow window version it is highly likely the work will have to be done. Even those that have had the fix but don't have the latest yellow window version may have to have the work done again if they receive a second recall notice. I have not heard of a nearside wheel version. I think euroserve's input to clarify things would be helpful here. For information Fiat's recall notice for vehicles with VIN START: ZFA25000001000371 and VIN END ZFA25000001789440 I am unsure whether these also include Peugeot chassis numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Nick of Euroserve did not appear to be online last week and so may be taking a well earned holiday from the world of Fiat. I agree his further in put will be very helpful but from his earlier post it appears that there have been a number of attempts to get it right up until the latest version in September 2010. I am not sure that the chassis numbers help in that I read that they jump all over the place depending on the spec of the base chassis such as whether it is a Maxi. Nick will be able to advise whether all rear offside winders are fitted with the "Yellow blob" window. If it is only on the more recent vans then it is a useful guidance for all owners. I have never heard of a rear nearside winder but Peugeot have often done their own thing even though it must be near the entry door on some Uk built Coachbuilts.!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 bobalobs - 2012-04-17 10:00 AM Nick will be able to advise whether all rear offside winders are fitted with the "Yellow blob" window. If it is only on the more recent vans then it is a useful guidance for all owners. I can answer this. Not all rear offside access winders have the yellow window but if the rear offside access winder does not have the yellow window it will need to be replaced. The sequence of events that led me to this conclusion is as follows: 1. My April 2010 vehicle was fitted with an offside rear winder from new. 2. I received the recall notice from Fiat. 3. The Fiat dealer told me I had the latest side entry winder fitted and that a new one was not required. 4. Having read posts on here I e mailed the Fiat dealer telling them that I would hold them responsible if the spare wheel fell off or the carrier failed as I was unconvinced the advice they had given me was correct. 5. I received a call from the Fiat dealer saying that, after consulting Fiat, they appeared to have given me incorrect advice and that a new spare wheel carrier was required. 6. The new carrier was fitted and, although it is in exactly the same place, the new version has a yellow window and the insert tool is different. 7. The dealer told me that he had replaced about 100 spare wheel carriers of the rear access kind but mine was the first side access carrier that he had replaced. 8. He had been advised that many of the side access carriers he had fitted to replace the rear access type under the recall notice would have to be replaced again. It is this that Nick might be able to advise on as there are very many people on here that might have to take their vehicles in for a second recall. Maybe even Nick's vehicles have to be recalled again! 9.In essence it would seem that if vehicles have not got the yellow window carrier version then it requires replacement but as I have not got much confidence in the advice I have received, that is the reason why I suggested Nick's input would be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Has anyone heard of one of these wheels actually falling off? On the face of it they must have failed whilst the vehicle was in motion and possibly caused an accident to following traffic (especially on a motorway). Any news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Mike How is the insert tool different? I assume we are talking about the extension pipe that fits between the wind up mechanism and the old wind up handle and is six or so inches long. The mechanic mentioned that the size of the end that goes into the winder mechanism is unusual so as to reduce the risk of a thief having one in his "burglar kit"! He also pointed out that there are two holes in the shroud that surrounds the point that the "extension pipe" goes into the windup mechanism. The idea is that the hasp of a padlock can be put through these two holes to stop the unwanted inserting the extension pipe. However as he pointed out it would not take a great deal to break the plastic shroud and he also commented that the lock in that position may well rust up causing the legitimate user problems. I have kept theextension pipe from both the original sidefitting and the latest but I will have to burrow under the seat to compare them both so will await a response before doing so particularly as heavy rain is forecast1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Looking at the original and the new "pipe" tool I think the end that fits into the carrier insert is slightly larger although this is based purely on a superficial inspection. It's raining outside so can check later. I'm also unsure about the padlock holes but will check later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everhopeful Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Thanks for the info. Looks like mine will need changing this time after all. I can't take the van in for the recall just yet, but when I do I'm happier now that I will insist on a replacement being fitted. I've little confidence that the garage will "dig deep" to properly resolve this on their own. Past experience tells me they will try to fob me off if possible and, as the next dealer is 100 mile round trip, I will need to lean on them to sort it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Hi All; thought I'd sent in a reply already, but not so! I have a PVC on a 08 Ducato. I had a spare wheel whinch fitted just after the van had been converted, and the van was in warranty, but I had my local garage fit it. I didn't receive a notice of recall but contacted Fiat in response to publicity and this post. I provided Fiat with details of the part number that was fitted. I was in Sainsburys yesterday and my mobile rang; it was Fiat telling me that my installation is not subject to recall and is not one of the type that has been failing. If this is correct then I'm happy; but I'm puzzled. Fiat have excluded my van on the basis of the chassis No........pardon? Chassis No: ZFA2500000 138....... It's the cradle that fails, it's a retrofit and I gave them the part number; 1361584080, rear bumper wind down. I don't understand how the chassis number affects the cradle? They told me that the faulty cradle fails when it is wound down; i.e. it can't be wound back up. They also categorically told me that mine is safe. I asked for that in writing. I continued with my shopping and 5 minutes later got a second call; presumably my contact had spoken to his supervisor! he, suggested that I take the van to a Fiat Commercial garage who would be able to inspect and ascertain. I don't understand why they can't put chassis and cradle part No together and come up with a definitive conclusion. It's been fine for over 2 years, we're going to Spain in 3 weeks so I'm going to strap the wheel up to chassis(not sure how) and leave it. I can't afford to lose space putting the wheel in the "boot" while Fiat sort it out. I'll email them if I don't get a confirmation of no need for recall. I'm disappointed in uncertainty; particularly as Fiat were so good attending to our reversing judder, under warranty, regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Yours can't possibly be the correct one if your cradle was acquired in 2008. Vehicles up to September 2010 will require modification according to information produced elsewhere on this forum. These are the chassis numbers affected: VIN START: ZFA25000001000371 and VIN END ZFA25000001789440 You need to establish whether access to the spare wheel is through the rear of the vehicle or through the side of the offside rear wheel arch. If the former then you will definitely require a new carrier. If the latter then if your winder has not got a clear glass window with a yellow marker then it will need to be replaced. This I believe is the Mk4 version. See my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 I have been waiting for Nick of Euroserve to come on linewith the intention of then "bumping" this thread to the top in the hope he might have a view as to whether only the latest winders are fitted with the yellow marker. It is now over three weeks since he has posted as far as I can see? Hope someone has not upset him and he has disappeared like Andy Stothert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Another bump as this remains an important issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Hello, I must apologise to you folks that have been waiting for my input on this matter. I thought this was all dead and buried by now, and I don't read every thread, especially as it an old subject. I have just been out into our workshop where we have 3 of the affected vans parked at present. All are Maxi vans. All have been modified and they all have the window with the yellow flag. Two were done at the beginning of the campaign and one last October. I expect this is an additional method of making sure that the wheel is correctly secured (particularly NOT over-tightened) but without any documentation supplied by the dealer it is impossible to say. I can say that we have had no problems with carriers of the side access type at all, nor have I heard of any problems with vehicles built between 2007 and 2009 that had the side access mechanism from new. I seriously doubt that any of these are a problem but if they do get replaced, so much the better. As stated earlier; when we tried to buy new carriers for those that failed early on we were initially able to buy direct replacements but later these were supplied on a replacement part number that was a side access version (without the window). Supplies of these were halted because of a manufacturing problem and some months later when they were available to buy again they still had no window. As far as I can tell; all of the replacements under the recall (to our vans at least) have been of the window type. Does that help? Nick PS. I don't have holidays and if I miss something please PM me and I will get onto it as soon as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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