Fit DAB aerial to recent Fiat Ducato tips?

[robdav]

Hi again

 

Has anyone here fitted a DAB aerial (windscreen type) to a recent Fiat Ducato? Our van came with a DAB capable Pioneer head unit but does not get any DAB reception/doesn't appear to have a DAB aerial.

 

I was wondering how hard it would be to run the aerial cable behind the dashboard? I was also wondering if the Remis blinds will be a problem on the passenger door window? Anyone done it and got any tips please?

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[Derek Uzzell]

First things first, I’m going to draw your attention to the "ALL FORUM MEMBERS - PLEASE READ” entry at the top of the Motorhome Matters first webpage.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/ALL-FORUM-MEMBERS-PLEASE-READ/47195/#M592257

 

This Pilote (French) brochure for 2017 model-year “Foxy” panel-van conversions has three references to an optional DAB radio system (though nothing to indicate which head-unit would be fitted). Can you identify exactly which Pioneer head-unit you’ve got?

 

Logically, when Pilote (or any other motorhome converter) fits a DAB-capable head-unit, it would be expected that a suitable DAB aerial would also be installed. So the first thing to check is whether the head-unit in your Pilote already has such an aerial (and whether it’s connected/working!) and to do this you’d need to withdraw the head-unit from the dashboard. There are some comments about this here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Burstner-Radio-Pioneer/50124/

 

and Robinhood mentions checking that the head-unit's settings are correct for DAB reception.

 

There should be no great difficulty running an aerial cable behind the dashboard, but if you wanted to run the aerial behind the Remis windscreen-blind plastic trim that’s on each A-pillar, you’d need to dismantle part of the windscreen-blind system.

 

My Rapido’s Pioneer AVH 2700BT head-unit does not have a DAB capability, just FM and MW/LW - but it ‘lost’ MW/LW reception some time ago. So there’s the possibility that your Pioneer unit - even though it should be DAB-capable and already has an appropriate in-working-order DAB aerial - has a problem.

 

What does the vendor of your Pilote say? If your motorhome should have a working DAB radio, but the present radio has never been capable of DAB reception, that’s a fault that should be addressed under warranty.

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-03-13 7:52 AM

 

......and Robinhood mentions checking that the head-unit's settings are correct for DAB reception.

 

 

....indeed. As in that post, many/most fitted DAB aerials are "active" and require power to be passed up the aerial lead to an amplifier in the unit. The setting for this, which is usually "switchable" should be checked via the radio's menu. (Where the aerial is active, and power is not being passed, you are unlikely to receive any signals).

 

However, you imply their is no evidence of a DAB aerial, and Derek implies you have a 2017/8 PVC. In this case, there is another possibility. The overcab aerial fitted as standard on Ducatos of that vintage is usually DAB compliant (to support the factory fit DAB option). It is quite possible that the Pioneer radio has been installed using a "splitter" similar to this:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Car-Stereos/Autoleads-PC6-536-Splitter-Headunits-Blaupunkt/B00FRGBLIW

 

which uses the single aerial to supply both FM and DAB signals. These splitters are normally powered from the separate dedicated "ant" supply (not via the aerial lead) at the rear of the radio, which is powered when the unit is on.

 

I would first check the menu settings for DAB "phantom power" and turn it on if it is off. If this has no effect, then, as Derek says, removing the radio will reveal whether or not there is a DAB aerial connected. (and, in my experience, DAB aerial connections are not always very secure, and are relatively easy to dislodge).

 

...and, if you are less than confident about removing the unit, I'd very much recommend first contacting your dealer for advice on what they think is fitted and should be working.

 

 

[robdav]

So the installed unit is a Pioneer AVH-A3100DAB.

 

I tried both with the DAB aerial powered option set to on and off (which you seem to only be able to set when the radio comes on after pressing the little pin reset button). Either way, no DAB reception at all.

 

On pulling the unit out, there is nothing plugged into the digital radio aerial input and no spliter either to the regular aerial.

 

Seems odd Pilote would install a DAB capable unit but not an aerial. Perhaps that's why they bought Danbury to palm off their PVC brand to them. The 2019 PVC from Pilote/Danbury comes with the Garmin RV-BBT600 RV Infotainment Center which also seems to be without DAB reception despite being capable of it.

 

Thanks for your help.

[Robinhood]

robdav - 2019-03-13 9:29 AM

 

I tried both with the DAB aerial powered option set to on and off (which you seem to only be able to set when the radio comes on after pressing the little pin reset button). Either way, no DAB reception at all.

 

 

....according to the manual I've downloaded, the "phantom power" for the aerial can be set in settings whilst DAB source is selected. Nonetheless, if no aerial lead is connected (and it hasn't gone missing down the back of the unit somewhere) then it's not going to make any difference ;-).

 

The neatest solution is undoubtedly to fit a "splitter" (especially as - if you have the overcab aerial - you probably have a DAB compliant antenna). Though I've heard mixed reports, I've personally had decent results with splitters (and I've successfully fitted my old radio and splitter to a friend's 'van within the last couple of weeks).

 

An issue can be finding enough space behind a "busy" double-Din unit to get one in (even though they are quite small), though the relatively easy removal of the lower dash provides ample access and space!

 

The unit is powered from the powered amplifier/aerial terminal on the harness at the back of the radio (that Pioneer unit, in common with most, is equipped with one), and there is thus no need to use "phantom power" with it. Simply connect the splitter to the harness, plug the existing FM lead into it, and the two output (FM and DAB) leads go into the back of the radio.

 

There are a number of splitters available at varying prices, the link I've supplied was only for info, not a recommendation.

[robdav]

Thanks Robinhood

 

I think I'll try a splitter first. It does seem a bit crowed behind the unit as it's not particularity well fitted and some bits are seemingly left over from the factory fitted stereo.

 

I'm reasonable capable but when you say "The unit is powered from the powered amplifier/aerial terminal on the harness at the back of the radio (that Pioneer unit, in common with most, is equipped with one), and there is thus no need to use "phantom power" with it. Simply connect the splitter to the harness, plug the existing FM lead into it, and the two output (FM and DAB) leads go into the back of the radio." there are a lot of wires so do you mean the ISO connector that comes out of the back of the radio, if so which wire?? :-S

 

Thanks again.

 

Rob

[Derek Uzzell]

robdav - 2019-03-13 9:29 AM

 

...Seems odd Pilote would install a DAB capable unit but not an aerial. Perhaps that's why they bought Danbury to palm off their PVC brand to them. The 2019 PVC from Pilote/Danbury comes with the Garmin RV-BBT600 RV Infotainment Center which also seems to be without DAB reception despite being capable of it.

 

Yes, it would seem odd if Pilote were to fit a DAB-capable head-unit and then deliberately not connect the unit to the required aerial - though (as has been discussed here in the past) Pilote’s philosophy regarding installing Pioneer radios has been idiosyncratic.

 

Pilote acquired Danbury Campervans in 2017, the same year that Rapido acquired Wildax Motorhomes and Trigano took control of Auto-Sleepers and Marquis Leisure. The Pilote Group comprises eight brands

 

https://groupe-pilote.com/en/our-brands/

 

and although Pilote and Bavaria panel-van conversion (PVC) models are very close relatives, I wasn’t aware that Fiat-based Danbury PVCs were now merely re-badged Pilote vehicles built in France (which I assume is what you are saying).

 

I note that a 2019 Pilote catalogue defines three radio-related options

 

1: A car radio with 7" screen + 2 speakers + reversing camera.

 

2: A detachable 6.1” Android tablet (car radio, USB, AUX, reversing camera, Garmin® sat nav, WiFi Internet connection).

 

3: DAB/DAB+ reception.

 

and the implication appears to be that, whatever the radio equipment, if a buyer wants DAB it has to be specifically requested.

 

UK motorhome buyers are often offered ‘packs’ of optional features that cost significantly less than if the options were specified individually - and DAB reception might be included in a UK pack in some cases. If you wanted to explore why Danbury now fits the Garmin Fusion DAB-capable unit but without DAB reception, you could always ask them.

[Robinhood]

Before opting for the splitter, just confirm your 'van has the standard Ducato Cab-roof aerial, and check that it appears to be spiral-wound along its length. If so, it is odds-on it will work with DAB, but needs the amplified splitter.

 

Most radios will have an output on the ISO adapter wiring to trigger a relay for a retracting aerial. On newer vehicles this may also function as a trigger for a power amp (or be doubled up to do both functions).

 

The rated power is fairly low, but ample to power a DAB/FM Splitter, which has low demand. It is live only when the radio is turned on.

 

The installation instructions for your radio aren't the best, but it will be the blue/white wire circled in the diagram (at 11, and which appears to be doubled up) and should probably be a bullet connector, unconnected and insulated. (and if the labels have been left on, marked "Ant", "Amp" or something similar). It will be in the ISO to Radio connection harness, not the vehicle side of the ISO connector.

 

Space is certainly tight behind a double-DIN unit. If you have the lower-dash cup-holders, you may find it useful to remove the lower dash, and install the splitter in the space that is revealed (and possibly manoeuvre some of the other wiring down. It's not difficult to drop down from the back of the radio into that space, and it only requires the removal of three (If I remember correctly) torx screws. (One either side at the top covered by easily removable plastic covers, and on under the square rubber mat between the cup holders). It is possible to remove the glovebox if it isn't the cupholder version, but this is slightly more involved, and I've never done one of those.

[Brian Kirby]

I'm just wondering why you are contemplating doing this? Are you quite clear what you ordered (assuming your are the first owner)?

 

Accepting what Derek says above re option 3 (DAB/DAB+ reception) there appears to be the possibility that this might be intended for a buyer who wants his van supplied DAB ready, but would prefer to fit his own choice of head unit. If this is true, then it would be reasonable to expect that selecting an option that included a DAB equipped head unit, would be supplied with the appropriate aerial/s.

 

There is also the possibility that vans as despatched by the factory are not fitted with radios at all, but that these are subsequently fitted by the supplying dealer - to eliminate theft in transit - and the dealer fitted the wrong unit, or did not correctly install the right unit.

 

Before attempting to intervene therefore, I would be inclined to check your paperwork to determine what should have been supplied, and then go back to the dealer to demonstrate why what you have is not functioning as it should.

 

It just may all be there, but a wire has pulled loose (or wasn't originally connected), or that an item such as a splitter has failed (the first one fitted to our van turned out to be a dud). Your own intervention just may then be held to be the cause of the fault. Dealer first, I think.

[Derek Uzzell]

Robinhood - 2019-03-13 1:09 PM

 

...It is possible to remove the glovebox if it isn't the cupholder version, but this is slightly more involved, and I've never done one of those.

 

I have (to replace the pollen filter).

 

To completely remove the central hinge-down glove box of a Fiat Ducato X290 requires removing 11 Torx-head screws. The procedure is shown in this (GOOGLE-translated) German article that describes what’s involved in replacing the glove box with the cup-holder alternative.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yyzhkyow

 

(It shouldn’t be necessary to remove the whole glove-box to reach the radio’s wiring harness.)

 

When I ordered my 2015 Rapido even the most basic radio was in a £250 ‘pack’ of various goodies and, if the buyer chose not to opt for that pack, no radio was fiited. Currently Rapido seems to offer no radio at all, or a “PACK SELECT” that includes a double-DIN Kenwood multimedia centre and rear-view camera, plus lots of other stuff. Packs were installed at the Rapido factory, not by the dealer.

[robdav]

I bought the van new but off the dealer forecourt so it was already spec'd and given that DAB/DAB+ reception is a £200 I'm guessing they didn't bother.

 

The existing roof aerial does not appear spiral-wound, it's thin and circular with no spiral on the outside.

 

Looks like I'll have to go down the windscreen stuck on DAB aerial so will think about it.

 

Thanks for the help though!

[Robinhood]

...the spiral effect (as on my last van, a PVC) is a bit like this.

 

I know you can get decent results with a splitter from an X290 thus equipped.

 

You may well get acceptable results from other FM aerials, but you'd be taking a chance (the recent fitment to my friend's van seems OK, and that's a standard roof aerial on an '06 van).

 

If you go for the windscreen aerial make sure you can get a decent earth on the windscreen pillar (the remis blinds may get in the way) - as this is critical to decent reception.

 

(the aerial lead should be easy to lay - the passenger side lidded upper dash cubby removes very easily (a few torx screw) and provides easy access to pull through from the passenger side.)

[Keithl]

Rob,

 

I fitted a DAB radio adaptor from Halfords to my old car and used this magnetic mount aerial with it... https://www.halfords.com/technology/car-audio/stereo-fitting-accessories/autoleads-magnetic-dab-antenna

 

But instead of mounting on the outside of the car and risk getting it stolen I simply stood it up between the front seats just behind the handbrake lever and it worked fine everywhere I tried it.

 

For a tenner it may be worth trying it positioned in an overcab locker or somewhere up high.

 

Keith.

[Brian Kirby]

Robinhood - 2019-03-13 7:53 PM

 

...the spiral effect (as on my last van, a PVC) is a bit like this.

 

I know you can get decent results with a splitter from an X290 thus equipped...…………..

Seconded! :-) Our aerial is very similar, except I think it is Fiat's standard supply, roof mounded above the cab just behind the top edge of the windscreen. Coupled to the splitter, which is installed somewhere behind the fascia, it gives good DAB reception. If the dealer isn't worth pursuing, have a word with a local car radio man (ideally one who handles Pioneer gear) and see what he suggests. The cost should be modest. I paid under £400 for our Kenwood DAB CD player, splitter, connecting the reversing camera signal wire to the CANBUS, and the radio steering wheel controls, including labour and VAT.

[Neal]

We took our Ducato based motorhome into Halfords, they fitted it very easily for us, including putting an aerial onto the inside of the screen. Works really well.