Merlin1 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I’m writing on behalf of my parents who own a late 2006 model Fiat Auto-Trail Scout motorhome. The problem we have is concerning the paintwork. The paintwork on the bonnet is particularly bad and is flaking off in small pieces. Whenever it rains or the van is washed, we lose further paint which has exposed the light beige coloured undercoat / primer material beneath and looks very unsightly. The paint itself appears to be very "thin". The rest of the paintwork on the doors, wings etc is fairly good and does respond well to cleaning and polish if a little short on lacquer. We totally understand that the van is now 9 years old or so, we realise that commercial vehicles are not perhaps painted in the same way as cars and that the finish perhaps cannot be compared to a new car or even to a new commercial vehicle but having said that, after 9 years or so, I don’t think paint should literally be chipping / flaking off to this extent let alone being washed off in the rain. Perhaps the odd sign of corrosion at this age is acceptable (although in this case the van is absolutely rust free). I have looked around at other vehicles, motorhomes, campers and builders vans and this paintwork issue does seem to affect a fair few, strangely not all it seems, but some. The earliest motorhome that we have seen with similar problems was on a W reg (so approx. a 2000 model), the youngest affected so far seems to be a few registered around as late as 2012. I have also researched the issue on the internet and there references to paint issues - on the roof of a panel van was one example. The general feeling seemed to be a case of that you can’t expect much from commercial vehicle paint, that there has sometimes been what is thought to a problem with the paint bonding, I’ve also seen mention of “water based paint” (??) can cause problems in some cases and that when these issues have shown themselves, the vehicles are out of warranty hence owners then have to get parts etc. re painted themselves. I did write to Fiat. We basically received what was probably a lightly edited standard email saying that there was nothing that could be done from their side due to the vehicle being many years out of warranty – which is what we expected and is fair enough due to the age of the van – my feeling is though that this problem is known yet it appears that nobody seems to want to confirm this and take steps to improve the quality which is a shame when the motorhome community spend a small fortune every year buying the Fiat / Peugeot based motorhomes. My parents have owned several Fiat / Peugeot based vans (as have our friends) including a couple of Talbot based ones “back in the day” but this is the only one to have this issue so far. As mentioned, I have researched this, I saw several motorhomes in the camping fields at the shows - including a few being offered for sale in the trade stand area so I'm sure some of the dealers must be aware....just wondering if any forum members' van are currently affected and if anyone has been able to work out the cause of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Probably just a dodgy spray job......I should get a quote to respray the bonnet ..........Its not a big job as they'll just take the bonnet off ;-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 we had the same problem on the roof of a 2005 Fiat, we put it down to poor preparation in factory, the paint flaked off if rubbed hard.. Only solution to your problem will be to spray the bonnet or get a Bonnet-Bra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Although we have rarely seen this problem on our rental vans, we are not unaffected and it seems that there has always been an adhesion problem between the primer and the top coat. It's disappointing because Fiat have put more effort into corrosion resistance (all body panels are galvanised since 1994) than any other manufacturer. From what i have seen, the problem seems to be exacerbated by being parked in strong sunlight for extended periods. This problem would seem to have been the focus of development of the new 'Fiat White' that is featured on all new X290 vehicles. Fiat claim that it has been specifically designed to prevent UV damage over time. Whether any of the other colours are any more durable than of old, i don't know but only the new white is mentioned in promotional material. Nick PS This new white is NOT offered on Peugeot or Citroen models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Water based paints (for that is what they are now) have issues with adhesion to water based primer/base coat. They adhere by mechanical means not by solvent action. So UV brittle paint can and will flake off. I have seen 3/4 year old vehicles in Spain etc. with quite severe paint damage, usually the lacquer top coat but sometimes more. The EU banned proper paint and lots of other things, roll on the referendum, I know which way I will vote! Have it re-sprayed, it shouldn't cost a lot, maybe £100 - £150, pay cash ;-) H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 hallii - 2015-05-27 5:12 PM Water based paints (for that is what they are now) have issues with adhesion to water based primer/base coat. They adhere by mechanical means not by solvent action. So UV brittle paint can and will flake off. I have seen 3/4 year old vehicles in Spain etc. with quite severe paint damage, usually the lacquer top coat but sometimes more. The EU banned proper paint and lots of other things, roll on the referendum, I know which way I will vote! Have it re-sprayed, it shouldn't cost a lot, maybe £100 - £150, pay cash ;-) H So do you think Fiat will make special vans for the UK with different paint :-D . ? Mercedes had this problem very badly when they started with water-based paints,hence the rusty Sprinters and Vitos a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I do not know when water based paint first entered the automotive market but none of the VW's we had between 1985 and 2002 had paint problems. But our 2002 metallic silver Fiat had paint peeling on the roof within a couple of years. I tried to mask the area off to respray but the tape took more paint off! As it was out of site I slapped on some Hammerite which stuck. A friend has a dark blue 2000 Fiat where the paint has come off to such an extent that in areas it looks like a white van partially resprayed in blue. I have seen a working builders van in blue in a similar state. Our current 2010 non metallic Fiat is a lot better though panels such as the sliding door seem to fade at different rates. A good polish does help a lot but we have a 2008 Fiat Panda where the overall paintwork is better even though the Panda is a cheap car. Perhaps there is a higher standard for cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graementl Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Had exactly the same problem with my 2009 Ducato and researched internet which showed many similar problems and replies from Fiat stating that they were taking nothing to do with it as all vehicles appeared to be out of warranty. I just "bit the bullit" and had it resprayed in 2 pack?, cost £180 cash and much better finish with less likliehood of fading. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 graementl - 2015-05-28 8:53 PM Had exactly the same problem with my 2009 Ducato and researched internet which showed many similar problems and replies from Fiat stating that they were taking nothing to do with it as all vehicles appeared to be out of warranty. I just "bit the bullit" and had it resprayed in 2 pack?, cost £180 cash and much better finish with less likliehood of fading. Graeme Ditto ;-) ........... When I had my campers cab resprayed by a decent body shop, it was far superior to the factory finish B-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Fiat may claim it's not their fault, but it's quite obvious that they suffer more than any other manufacturer unless you go back to the silver on fords in the 70's. The heat build up in strong sun seems most likely to be cause, I've seen a couple of dark blue panel vans that looked like more paint had flaked off than remained on. In case of OP, I would get the cab resprayed, as the rest of it will soon follow the bonnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela E Free Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 We have just had the same problem with a 2008 CI Carioca on a Fiat Ducato, in about 6 places around the cab. Perhaps our 7 weeks last year, during June, in France caused this!! We have also spent at least £4000 in repairs to the Fiat mechanics and Water Ingress and we will now be keeping the van, as a part exchange will incur a huge loss. We will try and spray the areas affected ourselves, as they arise. Can anyone help with the procedure to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Angela E Free - 2015-06-07 8:04 AM We have just had the same problem with a 2008 CI Carioca on a Fiat Ducato, in about 6 places around the cab. Perhaps our 7 weeks last year, during June, in France caused this!! We have also spent at least £4000 in repairs to the Fiat mechanics and Water Ingress and we will now be keeping the van, as a part exchange will incur a huge loss. We will try and spray the areas affected ourselves, as they arise. Can anyone help with the procedure to do this? To be honest unless your quite skilled with a spray can ........Your'll probably make it look worse than it does now.....besides if it just requires a cab a respray? then I'd of thought it'll be much less than the 1600 quid I spent on my cab respray, as I had new wings and front cross member replaced :D ........ Get a few quotes, they cost nothing ;-)....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 hallii - 2015-05-27 5:12 PM..............The EU banned proper paint and lots of other things, roll on the referendum, I know which way I will vote!................H And you really think solvent based paints would be re-introduced if we left? By whom, exactly? Show me the UK owned vehicle manufacturer who would re-introduce solvent based paints in the face of the evidence that they are carcinogenic. Show me the non-UK owned vehicle manufacturer (most) who would re-introduce solvent based paints for the UK market alone, when most only manufacture here to export to the wider European market. Sorry for the OT, but this makes me furious! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-06-07 12:06 PM hallii - 2015-05-27 5:12 PM..............The EU banned proper paint and lots of other things, roll on the referendum, I know which way I will vote!................H And you really think solvent based paints would be re-introduced if we left? By whom, exactly? Show me the UK owned vehicle manufacturer who would re-introduce solvent based paints in the face of the evidence that they are carcinogenic. Show me the non-UK owned vehicle manufacturer (most) who would re-introduce solvent based paints for the UK market alone, when most only manufacture here to export to the wider European market. Sorry for the OT, but this makes me furious! :-( Yeah....and the Germans would stop us exporting Rolls Royce's Bentley's and Mini's to (lol) .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-06-07 9:03 AM Angela E Free - 2015-06-07 8:04 AM We have just had the same problem with a 2008 CI Carioca on a Fiat Ducato, in about 6 places around the cab. Perhaps our 7 weeks last year, during June, in France caused this!! We have also spent at least £4000 in repairs to the Fiat mechanics and Water Ingress and we will now be keeping the van, as a part exchange will incur a huge loss. We will try and spray the areas affected ourselves, as they arise. Can anyone help with the procedure to do this? To be honest unless your quite skilled with a spray can ........Your'll probably make it look worse than it does now.....besides if it just requires a cab a respray? then I'd of thought it'll be much less than the 1600 quid I spent on my cab respray, as I had new wings and front cross member replaced :D ........ Get a few quotes, they cost nothing ;-)....... Agreed. In both the above cases take the van to a local body repair shop or two, and ask for quotes to remedy the defects. I wouldn't personally go further and get more done now than is necessary, as the problem may, or may not, arise on other panels later. If it does, then it can be fixed in the same way as and when. However, I would take the advice of the body shop, based on their experience, on how far to go, but would not invite them (for purely cynical reasons :-)) to advise on whether or not to re-spray the whole cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I would consider calling chips away or go online and search, don't work for the company just a customer on two occasions, they will come and respray anywhere they done it outside my house in the street, on both occasions I haven't been able to spot the repair and on the first car it lasted for six years(we sold the car) and you still couldn't tell that it had been resprayed all work reasonably priced (less overheads as no workshop required) and the work is guaranteed. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmike Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Flaking paintwork on bonnets is very common. One of the first things I do when arriving to valet a motorhome is to check the bonnet paintwork, then the doors just below the window. Fiat, Citroen or Peugeot doesn't seem to make a difference, they all suffer from it. Being a commercial vehicle the paint is very thin and unless its metallic will not have any lacquer to protect it from stones and other road debris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camperdude Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 My 2007 Citroen Relay has metallic silver paint and the paint is extremely thin. I had the bonnet resprayed 2 years ago at a cost of £215 as the paint was lifting off in big chunks. They had to remove the bonnet to respray it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerBarry Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Yep, Our 2007 X250 van conversion's metallic paint is flaking off all over the place, but mainly on seams or leading edges of the panels. It is obviously Fiat's fault, with an adhesion issue between primer and base coat, but Fiat, like all the other manufacturers, will always dodge their responsibilities. The question is at what point do you lash out to get it resprayed? For all the dodgy primer will have to be at least flatted before anew top can be applied properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 breakaleg - 2015-06-08 1:20 PM I would consider calling chips away or go online and search, don't work for the company just a customer on two occasions, they will come and respray anywhere they done it outside my house in the street, on both occasions I haven't been able to spot the repair and on the first car it lasted for six years(we sold the car) and you still couldn't tell that it had been resprayed all work reasonably priced (less overheads as no workshop required) and the work is guaranteed. Pete Thats what I would do as well....have used them before and found them excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 We had exactly this problem on our 2004 Fiat Benimar bonnet. Took it up to our garage and he orgainised it with a paint shop on the same Estate. They the garage took the bonnet off, the paint shop did the business and £200 later we had a pristine bonnet once more. It really did look awful - paint flaking off in big A5 sized patches along the leading edge back to the grey primer. We suffered this for a couple of years before having it done. Our Mabel is now the pretty girl she once was again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin1 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Hi all, Thanks for the replies - much appreciated. Apologies for the delay in logging back in...it's been a manic few weeks. So it certainly does seem this is a fairly common fault on not just works vans but also Fiat based motorhomes - It's good to know that this problem is generally recognised although it's bad the problem exists in the first place ! The vehicle bonnet will be resprayed - it's accepted that it just needs to be done - it's just the principle at the end of the day. If water based paint is known to be a problem in strong sun / heat and there are loads of Fiat's, Citroen's, Peugeots etc in France and Italy where it's hotter / sunnier, you'd have thought someone somewhere at Fiat would have come up with a resolution to the problem - the issue must be ten times worse abroad. Ok, so the more traditional paint is perhaps no longer allowed to be used for health reasons as a few people have stated but you don't tend to see scruffy bonnets on VW's for example. Sounds like nobody wants to invest the cash to look for a solution - and by the time the problem shows, the vehicles are well out of warranty anyway. Fact is it should happen even though we're talking commercial vehicles here which we know aren't as durable. Thanks again everyone for taking the time and trouble to comment :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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