Nicepix Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 First post so be kind to me :-D We have been living in France for the last 7 years and have a motorhome over here. I just wanted to make you aware of some recent changes as regards camping-cars. A few months ago the organisation who look after the interests of camping-caristes have taken several municipalities to court to challenge their usage of signs banning camping-cars from certain areas. They argued that the signs were not compliant with the law as they are not included in the Code de la Route which is the French Highway Code, and they are discriminatory against camping-car users as car and van drivers are not subject to the same restrictions. In France the definition of camping in your motorhome is whether you simply park as you would a car or whether you extend your awning, place table and chairs outside or even leave your step extended. The latter examples are classed as camping. The upshot of this is that the Magistrate's sided with the camping-car organisation and was pretty caustic towards some of the local Maires who had fought the action. They have been ordered to remove the signs and have to pay €2000 compensation to the camping-car organisation. The wider implications are that some Aires where you have to pay for parking your motorhome and car drivers don't have to pay may also be subject of future court cases. We have just got back from the Correze and two locations there fell into this category; Beaulieu-sur-Dordogne and Collenges la Rouge. Both allow car drivers to park without charge yet camping-car drivers are charged per night. At Beaulieu users of the sports ground park next to camping-cars on the same chemin. At Collonges the camping-cars are charged €8,50 per night with no facilities yet the car park is free. TLDR: If you are in France and you see a sign consisting of a red circle on a white background with a picture of a motorhome in it, the sign is not legal and can be ignored as long as you do not place tables, chairs, etc outside your motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesspark Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Well Nicepix to someone that has spent years in France in motorhomes I always thought that they generally looked after you but this new legislation makes it even more attractive thank you for the insight, fesspark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Very timely advice nicepix we are setting off for six weeks in France on Easter Monday and very much looking forward to tootling about using Aires. As you are probably aware, local authorities here are pretty anti motorhome even for normal parking. Many car parks with height barriers and weight restrictions (less than 3 ton) and strict policies on only parking in one space with no part of the motorhome outside the white lines - which are spaced for cars generally. So I applaud the camping car organisation and hope one day that we British may start to stand up for ourselves like many of the French do! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 For the most part France is pro camping-cars. But more what used to be free aires are now being taken over by companies like Flotte Bleu and Camping Car Park, The first thing they do is install a pay barrier and the second thing is to close or remove any services such as toilets or waste bins. In order to try and reap more money some municipalities have been restricting where camping-cars can park to try and force them into aires where a fee is payable. Thankfully there are still many cheap or free aires available, but some aires are now more expensive than camping sites despite having no facilities on the aire. The removal of the 'No Camping-Car' signs is the first step. I have no problem paying for water, sewage and electricity. But I don't see why I should be forced to pay to park a camping-car next to a car that can be parked in the same place for the same length of time for nothing. Hopefully that issue will also be taken up by the CLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Thank you for this information, we always use Aires when in France and to date, have not had any problems, but well worthwhile checking the legality before parking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Thanks from me also. Good information. To be honest though I have always found France by far the easiest place to park either in a town, village or an aire. I do not like the way a lot of Aires are being taken over by this new company that is spreading though. They are more like campsites to me. Would rather avoid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFrenchConnection Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I have no problem with CampingcarPark. In my experience they are close to town/tourist attraction (St Jean d'Angély and Vézac spring to mind) presumably having paid to be there rather than being shunted into a little-used part of a car park, and with clean, good size pitches. What is the problem with paying a small sum for decent facilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 TheFrenchConnection - 2019-04-16 8:46 PM I have no problem with CampingcarPark. In my experience they are close to town/tourist attraction (St Jean d'Angély and Vézac spring to mind) presumably having paid to be there rather than being shunted into a little-used part of a car park, and with clean, good size pitches. What is the problem with paying a small sum for decent facilities? No problem at all in paying for decent facilities.As I said in my initial post. But, let's look at the two examples I posted above. No facilities and cars park free on the same ground as camping-cars are charged to park on. Another example is at Moulismes in the Vienne department. Up to last year there was a huge free car park with toilets, picnic tables and a couple of nearby restaurants. Now a third of the car park is fenced off with a pay barrier specifically for camping-cars. In the other two thirds of the car park where the toilets and picnic tables are, cars, vans and lorries park all night free of charge. Many of the lorries have sleeper cabs and the drivers spend the night in the lorries. About 6km outside Cleremont-Ferrand the free communal aire has been taken over by Flotte-Bleu with a pay barrier. All the toilets are now padlocked shut as are the litter bins. Previously, when the community managed it, these facilities were freely available. The parking spaces are barely big enough to get a MH in, the site is miles from anywhere and there are absolutely no facilities yet to park, fill with water and dump your waste it costs over €10. At Capdenac-Gare in the Lot department Camping Car Park have taken over the previously free communal aire. Again, a pay barrier has been installed and the toilet and shower facilities locked. Just over the road is a public car park with toilets nearby. Nobody is asked to pay to park a car there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 The Camping-Car Park website is here https://campingcarpark.com/en/ The concept relies on motorhomes being autonomous - so, although waste emptying, water filling and 230V power supplies are provided (and Wi-Fi), any existing toilet-block facilities are deliberately removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-04-17 10:23 AM The Camping-Car Park website is here https://campingcarpark.com/en/ The concept relies on motorhomes being autonomous - so, although waste emptying, water filling and 230V power supplies are provided (and Wi-Fi), any existing toilet-block facilities are deliberately removed. And there is the crux; as well as paying to park you also pay further charges for electricity, water and toilet waste disposal. Now, I have no problem paying for those services, but I don't see why only the camping-car owners should pay to park. Car drivers use public toilets and picnic tables and can put tables and chairs up in aires without charge. But the camping-caristes are seen as a cash cow. As I said in the initial post; this situation has been successfully challenged as regards vehicular access and hopefully it will soon be extended to cover the discrimination regarding paying to park. Under French law a camping-car under 3,5t is regarded as a voiture - a car. So it is not lawful to discriminate between the two if the services provided are equal. The latest news is that the Maire of Flotte en Re who initially planned to appeal against the decision is now looking at using environmental laws to restrict camping-car access. The CLC have vowed to take legal action against any such moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Good morning, There does seem to be much conflict between road users in general and the authorities. The ligue des conducteurs send me emails every week or so and the yellow vests are reported to have damaged the cash cameras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian81 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Have lived in France now for 16 years and motorhomed there for 12 years things certainly have changed. More restrictions (height bars) have appeared but then we also notice a vast increase in the number of French and other nationalities motorhoming. Sadly this increase has not been matched by a comensurate growth in provision of aires. Also we note that in some of the more popular aires (free!) are occupied by long stayers. Summer months on the coast have become increasingly busy and necessary to pay. Things used to tail from 1/11 to easterbut not any more. This is replicated in Spain although they have invested in a lot of new facilities. That said these are large countires and if you dont go to the most popular areas you can still park easily and without cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Has it changed ? last time I used Camping Car Parks the entry fee covered electricity, water and emptying . Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 thebishbus - 2019-04-17 5:33 PM Has it changed ? last time I used Camping Car Parks the entry fee covered electricity, water and emptying . Brian B. It depends on the site and possibly the agreement between the company and the municipality. All the Flotte Bleu sites I have been on have payment for parking plus payments for water, electricity and toilet waste disposal. The last Camping Car Park site I went on had previously been a free aire with toilets and dish washing facilities on site. Now you pay a parking charge and the sanitary block is chained up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 thebishbus - 2019-04-17 4:33 PM Has it changed ? last time I used Camping Car Parks the entry fee covered electricity, water and emptying . Brian B. All Camping-Car Park (CCP) sites provide toilet and waste-water emptying facilities, provision of fresh-water and 230V and - in the majority of cases - free WI-FI. this is made abundantly clear on the CCP website. Some CCP sites are ex-campsites, some are ex-aires camping-cars, a few are brand-new installations. Currently there are are around 160 CCP sites, so the organisation hardly dominates the French motorhome ‘parking-up’ scene. For motorcaravanners who have no interest in the CCP network, there is still plenty of opportunity to ‘free camp’ in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 ian81 - 2019-04-17 3:39 PM Have lived in France now for 16 years and motorhomed there for 12 years things certainly have changed. More restrictions (height bars) have appeared but then we also notice a vast increase in the number of French and other nationalities motorhoming. Sadly this increase has not been matched by a comensurate growth in provision of aires. Also we note that in some of the more popular aires (free!) are occupied by long stayers. Summer months on the coast have become increasingly busy and necessary to pay. Things used to tail from 1/11 to easterbut not any more. This is replicated in Spain although they have invested in a lot of new facilities. That said these are large countires and if you dont go to the most popular areas you can still park easily and without cost. The one i've regularly used a number of years now in France is the municipal car park at Bray-Dune. Main reason being it's just a 20 minute drive from Dunkerque ferry port. Dover port is a 300 mile drive for me so spending a couple of nights at Bray Aire is much appreciated and gives me time to sort out my van and finalise route etc before setting off. There are no facilities but it's totally free. There are public toilet facilities just yards away and i use those as once i set off, i'm often not at any site for 10 days or so. The toilets you have to pay to use but i think, so what, that's money going toward the local economy. Same with the restaurants. I always eat out so once again, local business is benefiting. Unfortunately the majority on site don't do this. You mentioned 'long stayers' and sadly i've noticed over the years a number who have obviously been parked up some considerable time and are still there when i leave. Often large A class with sat dish permanently up and the folks are just sitting there watching tv living off food and drink they've bought from an out of town supermarket. It's activities like this which will kill off free Aires if people aren't careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 The new Camping Car Park site at Moulismes (86) was created last year by fencing off the top third of the large car park and installing a pay barrier. I see that to go through the barrier for the night now costs between €8,40 and €9,60. Previously it was a free aire for everybody and you could choose whether you wanted to pay for services such as electric and water. The motorists who choose not to go through the barrier can park all day and night for free and access the toilets and picnic tables provided by the commune. Following the CLC court cases it is now clear that camping-car owners have a right to park outside the barrier and have no legal obligation to park inside the CCP area. So, if you don't need electric and water you can avoid paying the CCP charges. There are plenty of cheaper or even free options to pump and dump locally. Now, Moulismes is no great tourist attraction. It is basically a small commune on a busy road and has nothing of interest to detain the travelling motorhome owners other than a couple of restaurants. If I were travelling through I would simply park where the lorries and cars are parked and pop across the road to one of the two the restaurants. €9,60 is a lot of money to park in a public car park at the side of a main road when just down the road at Queaux, Gouex and other Vienne riverside villages you can get all the benefits of a camp site in a pretty village for €11. If I were going to Capdenac-Gare however, I would happily pay the CCP charge because it is a nice aire in a nice area and there are things to see and do locally. It does rankle that two years ago I could park on the same nice spot for nothing and use the toilets and washing up sinks that are now chained shut. That is the difference that the CLC court case has given us. No longer do we have to park in a paying aire. The Camping-Cars Prohibited signs are not lawful and cannot be enforced. Hopefully the next step will be to remove charges aimed specifically at camping-cars when they are sharing the same ground as cars and lorries who park for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les W Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Interesting post/thread, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Perhaps the upshot will be that car drivers will now have to pay so neither camping car nor car owners experience discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Since you have voted for the brexit you are just a visitor from the third world. And have no longer the obligations as before. A Lot of them will be Void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2019-04-19 9:49 PM Since you have voted for the brexit you are just a visitor from the third world. And have no longer the obligations as before. A Lot of them will be Void. Not at the moment - and the original poster lives in France uses French Aires regularly - not sure this is anything to do with Brexit unless the United States of Europe is hoping to eventually align its rules and regulations in Motorhomes overnighting or even parking with the United Kingdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 20, 2019 Author Share Posted April 20, 2019 Mike88 - 2019-04-19 11:26 AM Perhaps the upshot will be that car drivers will now have to pay so neither camping car nor car owners experience discrimination. I think that is some cases that may be what happens. Free parking in large towns and cities is fast becoming difficult to find, but I can't see them charging people to park at leisure facilities and stadiums out in the sticks. It might be that the law is changed to differentiate camping-cars from cars to a detrimental effect for camping-car owners. But hopefully not. Another option would be to limit any vehicle to 24 hours or 72 hours, for example as is done in some free aires. That stops the problem of long term stayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 20, 2019 Author Share Posted April 20, 2019 david lloyd - 2019-04-20 9:11 AM monique.hubrechts@gm - 2019-04-19 9:49 PM Since you have voted for the brexit you are just a visitor from the third world. And have no longer the obligations as before. A Lot of them will be Void. Not at the moment - and the original poster lives in France uses French Aires regularly - not sure this is anything to do with Brexit unless the United States of Europe is hoping to eventually align its rules and regulations in Motorhomes overnighting or even parking with the United Kingdom? No, nothing to do with Brexit. We've been out here for 7 years and one of the first things we bought, before getting our own house, was a camping-car. I've been paying my taxes in France for long enough for us to get Carte de Séjours and if that fails there is my wife's Irish Granny and our adopted French dog to sway the decision (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 In case of it about 70 EU/UK officials have to move out off brussels EG head buiding. They are paid 5000 euro a month and free whisky. Same if on pension whit one partner left. Who pays the bill here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottypam Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2019-04-20 9:35 PM In case of it about 70 EU/UK officials have to move out off brussels EG head buiding. They are paid 5000 euro a month and free whisky. Same if on pension whit one partner left. Who pays the bill here. The 39 billion Euros that the UK will pay if we leave under the deal offered takes into account the UK’s obligations with regard to pensions, etc. The UK has always paid more into the E.U. than it has taken out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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