doonhamer Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Does anyone have any experience or advice about exporting and registering a van in France. I've been lead to believe that the registration process can be tortuous if not impossible for a British built van - 2007 Bolero 680FB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 As I understand it if the 'van in question has the habitation door on the left hand side (UK nearside) then the French authorities will not consider it being imported into France. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 doonhamer: If you GOOGLE-search on "vehicle registration france", you'll find several entries relating to registering an imported vehicle. The following link provides a good general overview: http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-lavie/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=135 However, it seems probable that Dave is correct in believing that a left-side habitation entrance-door on a motorhome will prevent it being registered in France. See: http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22278&sid=9a6357ce2d1168fd3ef5be205e9506aa Obviously this is something you need to establish first as, if true, there's no point in pursuing the importation matter further. I have met people who have moved to France, taken their UK-registered motorhomes with them and subsequently French-registered them, but the vehicles have always been LHD with a right-side entrance-door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 doonhamer - 2008-07-10 1:04 AM Does anyone have any experience or advice about exporting and registering a van in France. I've been lead to believe that the registration process can be tortuous if not impossible for a British built van - 2007 Bolero 680FB. It is only a long process if you have not got the necessary paperwork. First of all you have to have a "Certificate of Conformity"from the base vehicle manufacturer Fiat etc) and the same from the convertor (Swift), next is proof of purchase, Registration document. I am not sure if you would have to have a "CT" (French equivalent of an MOT) because the vehicle is under 3 years old. You may be asked to take it to the local DRIRE (Ministry of Transport Test Centre) for them to give it the once over. The thing that you may have to change is the reversing light, if it has only one then it will be on the wrong side and will have to be changed. Our Neighbours registered a British registered RHD Laika 3 years ago and had no problems after they got the appropriate paperwork. We have seen British vans with the door on the British nearside re-registered in France one of those recently was an Autosleeper and he had re-registered it in Brittany. Each Departmente in France has its own number plates. As we are in the Charente our Departmente is 16 so the last two numbers on our plate are 16. As long as you have the Convertor's Certificate to say it conforms to the EU Standard then I don't think you will have a problem. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A W Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Yes I have been through this system and it is far from easy.My vehicle was a lhd German motorhome so there were no issues with doors. I have heard reports of the odd RHD motorhome getting through the inspections.Those people were extremely lucky as such vehicles most certainly do not meet French regulations. If you go to www.brittany.angloinfo.com and do a search you will find many pages about this.Included in those postings is the piece of legislation about which side of the vehicle the habitation door MUST be on(ie not UK side). If you attempt this procedure you are heading for many months of heartache.I have reasonable French and it took me 9 months and a 1000 euros.The last thing you need when moving to a new country are these sorts of issues as there will be plenty of others!! As an aside a French registered RHD camping car will have virtually no value and the only market for resale would be the ex-pat community. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I forgot to say that another thing that has to be done will be the change of headlights, but when you visit the DRIRE they will tell you. One last thing, if you get your vehicle re-registered you have NO CHANCE of selling it on in France if you want to part-exchange it for another. They will not entertain a RHD vehicle for re-sale. Our Neighbours found a Dethlefs they liked but although theirs had been re-registered in France because it is RHD he wouldn't touch it. It depends on your circumstances, but if you are in a position to change your van I would either sell it and buy another over here (they are cheaper) or buy a LHD in the UK and re-register that. We are buying a different van on Saturday and the cost of getting it registered from its registraton in the Charente Maritime (17) to the Charente (16) will be about 260 euros, so it ain't cheap changing vans over here. When we came here in 2000 it cost us about £150 to re-register a 1992 Discovery and about £106 for the new headlights and another £80 for the Certificate of Conformity from Land Rover Paris. It is RHD and we still have it and use it every day. I can't think of anything else that might be of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I have only registered a car in France, not a motorhome, so I cannot comment on that precisely but I can say that I found the procedure in my area of France different to all the advice given. I think the Prefectures are independant in many ways and have different rules. In my case the Prefecture is in Clermont-Ferrand, not an area known for masses of English people, so I think they are still finding their way over many things, health issues included. In my case we had to leave France by a certain date and they said we could not leave until all the formalities were finalised (panic as the English insurance only allows 36 hours); fortunately they were in the end. Mine is a small Fiat car which had an English MOT already (had to renew this in France before the year was up) but I had to go to the French tax office with the invoice to prove that tax had been paid. Had a problem here at first because the young man said I couldn't register unless I paid my taxes in France. I was able to argue this out and then I went to the MINE in Clermont. They didn't actually look at the car, nor their computer either, because they could have issued the OK there and then. After that I had to wait for the Prefecture to contact me (which they didn't so I had to keep sending faxes) to collect the Carte Grise. I had also arranged French insurance beforehand. I chose to visit a broker to make sure I was covered for injuries (often not included) and breakdown etc. Anyone in the family can drive it too. When I come back to England I put the car in the garage, notify the insurers and receive a big refund. It wasn't too difficult, easier if you speak French of course, and not too costly (lots of petrol back and forth, and c.90 euros for the registration plus about 40 I think for the MINE). The official forms are a bit confusing and I don't think they have classified my car correctly (899cc) as I think the CV number is too high. In September I am about to renew the MOT for the third time (only every two years in France and cost about the same as in England) which must be done before the expiry date otherwise a big fine. Incidentally I only have stickers on the headlights, whereas in some areas they insist on changing the headlights (costly I believe), so other than buying the new plates (forgot that cost) I didn't have to make any other alterations. You can't tell the age of a vehicle by the number plates in France and as Sylvia says the departmental number in shown at the moment (so if you move you have to re-register) but a new system is due on 1 Jan 2009 (you can choose to show the number at the end). I know the French are very fussy about gas systems in caravans (which have to be registered independently too) but I imagine your system is up to date anyway. Bon chance! PS You might find a lot of useful information on the forum of Living France. That's where I looked for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doonhamer Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thanks for the feedback - anyone want to buy a van :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 The suggestion above, of selling the RHD van in UK and buying LHD looks good. However, trading your RHD against a LHD may be better. It is doubtful any dealer will buy for cash at present. Wrong time of the year and wrong economic indicators. Private sales are liable to be slow for similar reasons. However, any dealership with a half decent LHD van will be selling that fairly cheaply, to overcome UK market resistance to LHD. Offer him a nice tasty RHD van in p/x however, and he has something infinitely more saleable on his forecourt. Have a sniff around some of the importers of LHD Hymers etc and see what they have on offer. Quite a few seem to be sold with right dipping headlights, KPH speedos and tail lights un-modified. Find one of those, and you'll have no modification costs to make it street legal in France. Then, if you get a good deal, once your LHD is re-registered in France, you can trade it for what you really want. The UK dealer price for new European made vans has been running at around £5,000 per van higher than the virtually identical spec van from a dealer in Europe. Because of these inflated new vehicle prices, secondhand LHD values in UK are also generally higher than over the ditch. Therefore, with a UK p/x you should not loose out too badly when you trade into the cheaper European market. Or so my theory says!! Just check prices and values a bit before you jump in. What you will be very unlikely to get, however, is a UK style lounge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I agree totally with Brian. Have a look at this website and you should be able to judge what prices vans are going for in France, Belgium and Holland. http://www.camping-car-occasion.com Hope the link works if not just copy and paste into your browser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Brian Kirby - 2008-07-10 6:16 PM and tail lights un-modified. Hi Brian Can you explain this comment please? I didn't have to have any modification to the tail lights or come to that the front lights. Is this a new law in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Patricia, I think Brian meant reversing lights. We have noticed, however, that in France they have Orange Bulbs and not Orange covers in the indicator lights. My OH replaced the bulbs in the motorhome before it went for its CT in May and didn't realise that the lenses were clear, the man in the CT place picked it up, he didn't fail the motorhome but just said to get the bulbs changed. Its surprising what you take for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thanks for that explanation Sylvia. At my last CT they mentioned the tyre pressures (when I checked them they were perfect so I presume he did them) and the headlight needed adjusting which I ignored! Will see what they say in September. Have to go back especially for this but I am holidaying in France anyway (near Annecy) so a good excuse to spend some time at the house. Don't forget to get in touch if you want a short break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 It's likely that Brian K is referring to the rear fog-light that (if not centrally located) must be close to the right-hand 'edge' of a UK-registered vehicle or close to the left-hand edge of a Continental-registered one. To comply with UK-registration regulations LHD vehicles imported to the UK will tend to require modifications to headlights, speedometer and the position of the rear fog-light. While it's commonplace with imported LHD motorhomes for the speedo to remain unchanged (it's not involved in our MOT test), and not unusual for the headlamps to remain unmodified (it can be got around at MOT time), a rear fog-light in the 'Continental' position will normally be repositioned as a) it is checked during the MOT and will cause failure if it's in the wrong place and b) when it's switched on, if it's wrongly located for the UK it's instantly evident from outside the vehicle. It's also (usually) very easy and cheap to fiddle with the fog-light - unlike the speedo and headlights. I wasn't aware that there was a requirement in France to use orange bulbs in direction indicator-lights. I believed that the only technical differences between UK and Continental vehicle lights related to the rear fog-light position and the headlight dipped-beam pattern. In recent years there has been a move from direction indicator-lights having orange outer covers towards such lights having a clear outer cover with an orange filter set behind it. I'm guessing that the reason for this is primarily styling as it permits a 'pretty' clear outer cover to be used but still provide the orange light required for direction indicators. I didn't think there were any national regulations as to how direction-indicators should produce their orange light and that an orange cover + clear bulb was just as acceptable as a clear cover + orange filter or orange bulb. (In fact, I'm a mite surprised that the latter combination would be chosen as, if an orange bulb failed, one might expect it to be harder to find a replacement than a clear one). My Germany-sourced Hobby's front direction indicators have a clear bulb behind an orange filter behind a clear outer cover. The side-mounted direction indicators use a clear bulb behind an orange cover, as do the rear indicators. I'm 99.99% sure that, when this motorhome is marketed in France, no changes are made to the lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Derek Uzzell - 2008-07-11 8:58 AM I wasn't aware that there was a requirement in France to use orange bulbs in direction indicator-lights. I believed that the only technical differences between UK and Continental vehicle lights related to the rear fog-light position and the headlight dipped-beam pattern. In recent years there has been a move from direction indicator-lights having orange outer covers towards such lights having a clear outer cover with an orange filter set behind it. I'm guessing that the reason for this is primarily styling as it permits a 'pretty' clear outer cover to be used but still provide the orange light required for direction indicators. I didn't think there were any national regulations as to how direction-indicators should produce their orange light and that an orange cover + clear bulb was just as acceptable as a clear cover + orange filter or orange bulb. (In fact, I'm a mite surprised that the latter combination would be chosen as, if an orange bulb failed, one might expect it to be harder to find a replacement than a clear one). My Germany-sourced Hobby's front direction indicators have a clear bulb behind an orange filter behind a clear outer cover. The side-mounted direction indicators use a clear bulb behind an orange cover, as do the rear indicators. I'm 99.99% sure that, when this motorhome is marketed in France, no changes are made to the lights. No that was not what I was inferring. On a lot of French vehicles they have clear indicator lenses with orange bulbs. When my husband changed the bulbs in our motorhome he didn't realise that the lenses were clear, because in the UK the lenses are orange, its one of those things that you do without thinking when you change the bulbs. He put clear bulbs in and it was picked up on the CT. As long as they are showing orange by some means or another that is ok. Don't forget our motorhome was a 1998 model. On Saturday when we pick the new one (to us) up I will have a look at the indicator lenses. This was is a 2002 model. By the way, Orange bulbs are easy to find in the supermarkets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Patricia - 2008-07-10 7:12 PM Brian Kirby - 2008-07-10 6:16 PM and tail lights un-modified. Hi Brian Can you explain this comment please? I didn't have to have any modification to the tail lights or come to that the front lights. Is this a new law in France? No Patricia, I was originally referring to the fact that vans imported into UK seem often to remain un-modified. The rear fog light - where there is only one such - as Derek says, should be on the centre line, or UK offside. The change is often only a case of swapping the fog light and its wiring for the reversing light and its wiring, but it depends on the type, and shape, of rear lights used. Sometimes both rear lights are handed versions of each other, with all lenses present, but lamps are not fitted to all the lenses. Lamps, lampholders, a couple of bits of wire, and Bob's your uncle! But I digress! The point about lamps and speedo was that if one such un-modified can were sourced, it would need no modification on importation into France. Legally, you have six months within which to re-register, from which point French insurance would be needed. Whether you need new headlamps on a UK van re-registered in France I know not. However, I'd be rather surprised if left dippers are, actually, legal. It may just be that so few UK vehicles are re-registered into France no law has been drafted to outlaw left dippers. After all, few of the French who drive in UK seem aware of the difference. Do they not check the lights during the CT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Brian I really cannot remember what rear lights I have on that car - will have to look when I go back out. But yes they do check the lights for the CT - hence the right dipping stickers which they have accepted although some regions do not. The CT though is not nearly as rigorous as the MOT. Also I think I am right in saying that you only have three months now to re-register a vehicle, not six. Three months seems to be the magic figure for everything, dogs, medical registration, social system, fiscal registration etc.etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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