chello Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Filling up for a weekend away in the van I mistakenly put 22 litres of petrol in my diesel tank,a moment of panic, then I filled the tank with diesel, this meant I had a quarter of petrol in my tank. I pondered on this for a minute or two, I remembered when lorry driving during the 1950s we used to add a couple of gallons of petrol to diesel to stop it waxing when it was near freezing. Happy to say I continued my journey with no problems but regular top ups, I have now done over 400 miles and no problems. More modern engines may detect faults, so I am not suggesting others do the same.my van is a year 2000 non turbo 2.8, motoring over 50 years,but a first time for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 The worst aspect of that is that diesel contains more lubricant than petrol so more injector pump wear can occur when diesel is diluted, especially when the fuel is not well mixed. Hope you got away with it but if there has been any excess fuel system wear it may yet return to bite you very expensively in the months to come. I only ever did it once - in a week old Toyota - but I bit the bullet and had it towed away (not by a Toyota deaker), drained, flushed and refilled with diesel without ever starting it on contaminated fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 I think the general advice is not to even turn the key because instead of just flushing the tank you need to flush fuel lines and pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 You should be OK with a diesel of that age. You've done the right thing by diluting it and continually topping up as the level in the tank falls. I once did similar in a Mondeo TDCi, which were notorious for fuel pump issues, although only to the tune of about 5 litres. It went on for several more years without problems and was still going strong when I sold it at 15 years old with well over 100K on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 This recent AutoExpress article refers https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/95327/wrong-fuel-a-guide-on-what-to-do-if-you-put-petrol-in-a-diesel-car and it’s suggested that (accidentally!!) adding no more than 5% of petrol to a tank of diesel may not cause harm. There are several 'gizmos’ marketed to prevent petrol being put in a diesel-fuelled vehicle, but on-line reviews are not all positive. This inexpensive audible warning device has been around for years (plenty of sellers, plenty of prices) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Diesel-Audible-Mis-Fuelling-Warning-Device/dp/B076BMPNZ5 but, once again, drawbacks with its operation have been reported, and I believe its battery cannot be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Would you want to replace the battery? At a cost of £1-99 for the whole thing! Buy a new one. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 I can't see the AutoExpress article, as it constantly hangs due to a long running script and then crashes on my browser, but I'm guessing it refers to the modern generation of diesel engines which run at extremely high pressures with fairly sophisticated pumps and injection systems. A previous generation non turbocharged 2.8 JTD engine is a much less sophisticated beast, and whilst adding petrol to the tank is still undesireable, I would be much less concerned about any long term harm it might do to the engine as a one off occurrence that chello seems to have managed well by regularly topping up to dilute the fuel as the tank level repeatedly drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Dave C - 2018-11-17 8:11 AM Would you want to replace the battery? At a cost of £1-99 for the whole thing! Buy a new one. Dave There’s no obvious indication regarding the expected lifespan of the device’s battery. If the battery normally lasts (say) 2 years, then replacing the complete device for a couple of quid would be acceptable. If the battery’s lifespan turns out to be no more than (say) 3 months, paying £1.99 four times a year would not be an attractive proposition. (I was merely pointing out that my understanding is that this device’s battery cannot be replaced. The implications of that inability should be self- evident.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Deneb - 2018-11-17 8:35 AM I can't see the AutoExpress article, as it constantly hangs due to a long running script and then crashes on my browser... Text from AutoExpress article copied below: "Wrong fuel: a guide on what to do if you put petrol in a diesel car. Misfuelling your car can be a costly mistake if you try to drive it, but here's what to do if you put petrol in your diesel car Incredible as it may sound, motoring organisations reckon that every three to four minutes here in the UK, another unfortunate motorist will be pumping the wrong fuel into their car’s petrol or diesel tank. If it’s never happened to you be grateful, but don’t pour scorn on those unhappy drivers who’ve put petrol in a diesel car by mistake. A moment’s distraction, tiredness, stress, or even plain old forgetfulness could see any one of us joining the statistics at our next trip to the filling station. Mixing petrol in diesel fuel isn’t the end of the world as long as you realise your mistake at the pump. Yes you’ll be faced with the hassle and cost of getting your fuel tank pumped, but the real damage can occur when you drive away. If you’re unlucky, you could end up with a bill costing literally thousands of pounds. Most misfuelling incidents – around 95 per cent – occur when petrol is pumped by mistake into a diesel car. It’s harder to misfuel the other way around, as diesel pumps have wider nozzles that don’t fit into modern petrol car filler necks. Spot your mistake quickly as you’re filling up, and there’s a chance you’ll get away scot-free. That’s because it’s commonly agreed you can mix up to 5 per cent petrol into diesel fuel without disastrous consequences. If there’s no room in the tank to top it up with diesel at the required 95 per cent ratio, you’ll need the services of somebody who can drain the tank. What happens when you put petrol in a diesel car? As long as you don’t turn the key in the ignition, there’s not too much to worry about other than having to confess your error to the garage attendant. That, and the £200 or so it usually costs for a breakdown van or similar to come and drain your tank. Turning the key is the biggest mistake you can make, as even if you don’t actually start the engine, illuminating the dashboard lights could mean your fuel pump whirrs into life. It’s supposed to prime the engine with diesel before it starts, but instead could be sucking petrol up the fuel lines. This means they’ll need draining and flushing as well as the fuel tank. If you get as far as starting the engine, there’s a whole lot more that can go wrong besides. Petrol in diesel: the worst-case scenario. Modern diesel engines employ lots of technology to eke out their impressive mpg figures and minimise emissions, including expensive high-pressure fuel pumps, and common rail injectors with very fine tolerances. Those fuel pumps are lubricated by diesel fuel itself, as it passes through. Replace that diesel with petrol, and its solvent properties mean the lubrication effect is eliminated too. A fuel pump running without lubrication will soon begin to create internal friction as its metal surfaces grind together. It will then begin to disintegrate, and that in turn creates swarf – potentially microscopic particles of metal that can do even more damage to your car's engine further down the line. It’s the diesel engine’s high-pressure injectors that are next in the firing line. They force fuel into the engine cylinders through very fine holes, and with a carefully engineered spray pattern. If swarf gets as far as the injection system it will simply block some or all of the holes, and a replacement common rail injector system will potentially cost thousands of pounds. Further misfuelling problems can be caused by petrol’s corrosive qualities, which may degrade seals in a diesel system. At the very least, the entire system will need to be inspected and assessed for damage, as well as flushed through with a cleaning agent by your garage. If you have driven with petrol in your diesel, don’t panic! It’s important to note at this point that driving your car a very short distance on the wrong fuel is not guaranteed to damage vital components in the ways described above. In fact, misfuelling recovery specialists such as Fuel Doctor reckon many motorists have driven off forecourts without realising the dangers, only calling for help when their engines stutter and stall a few miles down the road – without long-term adverse effects. However, driving a diesel car with petrol in the tank will cause serious and expensive damage in fairly short order, and the potential cost of extensive repair is not worth the gamble. Even if you get away with running the engine or driving without damage, the incident will still be more expensive. That’s because draining and flushing the fuel lines and engine is a more laborious process than simply draining and flushing the tank. Petrol in your diesel car: our 5 top tips 1. Stop fuelling immediately: If you’ve only put in a splash of petrol, some experts say there’s a chance you can get away with it – as long as there’s not more than 5 per cent petrol in your diesel. If you do want to risk driving on, stop frequently to top up the diesel and thus reduce the percentage of petrol in your tank as quickly as possible. 2. Inform the filling station attendants: They will take it in their stride, as it happens to hapless motorists all the time. If they want you to move your car, ask them to help you push it – remembering to turn the key in the ignition just far enough to unlock the steering. Don’t illuminate the dashboard lights or start the engine! 3. Call your breakdown service or a specialist misfuelling service: The filling station will likely have contact details for a suitable company if your breakdown service can't assist. Don't be harassed into using an operator you're not comfortable with though, as you can find well-known nationwide operators using google and a smartphone. 4. Wait with the car (as long as it’s parked safely): The tank can usually be drained and flushed in situ in around 30-40 minutes. Afterwards you’ll be able to fill it up again – hopefully with the right fuel this time - and drive away. 5. Lock the car and leave it if you can't wait: Don't worry about locking the doors with central locking if you don’t want to wait with the car. It won’t affect the fuel system." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 The device failing due to a flat battery would have the same effect whether the battery was replaceable or not. Dav e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 If the battery powering the “Think Diesel” device expired, the device wouldl no longer function. But if the device were still in working order and the only reason it no longer functioned was because its battery had gone flat, if its battery coild be replaced there would be no need to obtain another device. If one could replace the Think Diesel’s battery for, say, 50p, why would one waste £1.44 buying a complete new device? As I said in my 1st posting above, the “Think Diesel” device "has been around for years” (It used to be available in 2011 for £1 from Poundland) and, as it’s anybody’s guess how old the devices being offered on-line are, it’s unpredictable what state their batteries are in and how long a device will operate before the battery dies. (I wish I’d never mentioned the damn thing :-( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-17 2:28 PM I wish I’d never mentioned the damn thing No matter what the topic there are always those who feel the need to complicate it - 'tis the nature of mankind and 'tis the nature of Forums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Deneb - 2018-11-17 7:35 AM You should be OK with a diesel of that age. You've done the right thing by diluting it and continually topping up as the level in the tank falls. This ^^^ with the bold being the most relevant. Non-turbo diesel (with the right pump) will also easily run on old chip fryer oil though you do tend to leave an aroma of fish 'n chips around! By far the worst though is the opposite....sticking diesel in a petrol vehicle and i knew someone who did that once in a moment of carelessness! Barely got more than a few yards from the station before he realised (great plumes of smoke and much spluttering!) and had to get his car towed home and remove the fuel tank to drain all the diesel out. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-11-17 6:16 PM By far the worst though is the opposite....sticking diesel in a petrol vehicle Sorry but I have to disagree. Putting Diesel in a petrol means the engine will soon stop running but it is very unlikely to cause any lasting damage after being drained and flushed. However running a MODERN Diesel on petrol for anything more than a minute or so WILL cause long term damage and could cost several thousand pounds to put right! As has been said previously the high pressure pump relies on the lubricity of the diesel to prevent it seizing. Petrol does not offer that lubricity so the pump seizes and sends shards of metal around the entire fuel system right back to the fuel tank because the system is of the return type. You invariably have to replace the fuel tank, low pressure pump, high pressure pump, filter, all pipework, injectors, etc, etc. at ENORMOUS cost! So whilst a Diesel MAY run with a high percentage of petrol when it DOES stop it is going to be VERY expensive! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 On-line received wisdom generally seems to be that putting (some) diesel in a petrol-fuelled vehicle is potentially less harmful than putting (some) petrol in a diesel-fuelled vehicle. https://tinyurl.com/yderhs4k Mumsnet forum participants disagree with this rule-of-thumb however... https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/dadsnet/436349-diesel-in-a-petrol-car I don’t recall my wife ever refuelling any of our vehicles but, just in case this might happen, when her 15-year-old VW diesel car was swapped for a new petrol-engined Skoda in 2009 I attached to the Skoda’s fuel-cap ‘tether’ a large plastic tag with the word PETROL written on it. And the first time I refuelled the Skoda I attempted to put diesel in it! Fortunately the diesel-pump’s nozzle was too large to go into the Skoda’s fuel-filler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-18 7:29 AM I don’t recall my wife ever refuelling any of our vehicles but, just in case this might happen, when her 15-year-old VW diesel car was swapped for a new petrol-engined Skoda in 2009 I attached to the Skoda’s fuel-cap ‘tether’ a large plastic tag with the word PETROL written on it. . I have to confess Derek, that a few years ago when my scatterbrained 21 year old daughter (at Uni) changed from petrol to diesel I bought one of these gadgets that spoke to you when the fuel cap was opened. After about 4 months of being greeted with a shout of 'I ONLY TAKE DIESEL !!!' she threw it away saying she had got the message. Mind you, she never misfuelled ! Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chello Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 Thanks for the many opinions even the ones I that had dire warnings,i am still thinking positive and after near 500 miles the engine is running as well as ever,i am not being smug just hopeful.If I get trouble I will update,for me its still fingers crossed and thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Keithl - 2018-11-17 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2018-11-17 6:16 PM By far the worst though is the opposite....sticking diesel in a petrol vehicle Sorry but I have to disagree. Putting Diesel in a petrol means the engine will soon stop running but it is very unlikely to cause any lasting damage after being drained and flushed. However running a MODERN Diesel on petrol for anything more than a minute or so WILL cause long term damage and could cost several thousand pounds to put right! As has been said previously the high pressure pump relies on the lubricity of the diesel to prevent it seizing. Petrol does not offer that lubricity so the pump seizes and sends shards of metal around the entire fuel system right back to the fuel tank because the system is of the return type. You invariably have to replace the fuel tank, low pressure pump, high pressure pump, filter, all pipework, injectors, etc, etc. at ENORMOUS cost! So whilst a Diesel MAY run with a high percentage of petrol when it DOES stop it is going to be VERY expensive! Errm......pretty much what i said only in a lot less words so i'm unsure why you 'have to disagree'....but then end up posting in agreement! :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 can you imagine doing this on a euro6 fiat the dash would light up so much you will need sunglasses (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 My Ford diesel filler cap wont open with a petrol nozzle, its got to be a diesel nozzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 This link may interest you https://www.fuelfixer.co.uk/2011/10/wrong-fuel-in-a-ford/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Worth reading the FAQs on that site as well Derek. A fairly sensible response to the £1000s of pounds of damage and rectification work needed argument, which he succinctly sums up as "Petrol will ruin your diesel car but your diesel car will not run on petrol long enough to get ruined, therefore, PETROL WILL NOT RUIN YOUR DIESEL CAR" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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