potus4388 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 I know this has been covered before, however, I would be grateful for some advice: I am going to France in my Elddis Accordo with 2 x 6kg Calor bottles in the gas locker. I have read about Le Cube gas bottles in French supermarkets, my question is, will a 6kg Le Cube bottle(I have never seen one) fit in my gas locker and will I be able to fit the hose from my bulkhead regulator? I am wary of getting it wrong and hope those who have used these before can advise me. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 You will need a regulator that is suitable for the Le Cube, available where you get the Cube, can't remember the size but probably similar diameter to the Calor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmorris Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 We investigated this and found that a Le Cube wouldn't quite fit in our gas locker (just a few mms too big). Best thing is to carefully measure your gas locker. You can find the dimensions of a Le Cube are quoted a being 282mm x 282mm x 355mm high. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/where-to-buy-gas-connector-le-cube.116014/ A Calor 6kg bottle is 256mm diameter. http://chorleybottlegas.co.uk/sp_faq/what-are-the-dimensions-of-calor-gas-cylinders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 What time of year are you going, what part of France will you be in, how long are you going for, are you using sites with ehu. Depending on the answers you may have enough gas to last if you start with two full Calors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potus4388 Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 We will be away for 5/6 weeks, using I guess mostly aires and wild camping as most sites seem to close at the end of this month. We will start with two full Calor bottles but just thinking about perhaps heating at night and obviously will be cooking with gas and at times using gas for fridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potus4388 Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 Going to La Rochelle area from Cherbourg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Fair enough, have you considered a 6kg refillable to replace one of the Calor? Not a cheap solution initially but worked well for us on extended tours staying only ever non ehu Autogas (or whatever they call it in France!) was cheap and plentiful and at many fuel stations and the refillable system can also be taken with you if you change vans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potus4388 Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 Yes, I have considered it but as you say say, the initial outlay is high but maybe worth it in the long run. Won't have time to do it this trip but might be worth looking at it in the future. We are taking one of those portable gas stoves that use small canisters with us as a back up! Thanks for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Randonneur - 2018-09-14 1:06 PM You will need a regulator that is suitable for the Le Cube, Unfortunately a regulator for the Le Cube won't be any use to you as your 2017 MH will almost certainly have a bulkhead mounted regulator and you cannot use two regulators in series. What you will have to get is a converter from the Le Cube thread to your existing connection, most likely POL if you use Calor propane. I think the Le Cube uses an 21.8LH thread but check before buying. I think this would work but again please check... http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4331 Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 potus4388 - 2018-09-14 2:20 PM We are taking one of those portable gas stoves that use small canisters with us as a back up! Good idea, we carried one for fifteen years and never once used it, but we still kept on with it in the van every tine we changed van thus fully justifying the theory that 'the clutter expands to fill the available space'! It's still in the shed along with two extra full cannisters, a spare bulkhead regulator and a spare propane pigtail if anyone wants 'em! Have a good trip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisD Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Derek Uzell did a very comprehensive and informative post on this subject. Try using the forum search facility. And thank you Derek for the time taken to provide all that useful information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAJay Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 potus4388 - 2018-09-14 2:20 PM Yes, I have considered it but as you say say, the initial outlay is high but maybe worth it in the long run. Won't have time to do it this trip but might be worth looking at it in the future. We are taking one of those portable gas stoves that use small canisters with us as a back up! Thanks for your comments. We found that the French cubes would not fit in our gas locker (Swift Sundance) You should be OK with 2 bottles , and the portable backup can always be replaced in France. Personaly we only ever use less than half a bottle of gas a year, but we did have electric plate on cooker, and used sites with ehu. Depends what time of year you are going? In cold weather you will need heating, so would use more gas. PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Keithl - 2018-09-14 2:22 PM I think the Le Cube uses an 21.8LH thread but check before buying. I think this would work but again please check... Keith. Le Cube uses a 27mm clip-on connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 potus4388 This link is to a 2015 forum thread that discussed connecting a “Le Cube” container to a bulkhead-mounted regulator https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Connections-to-connect-a-Le-Cube-to-your-bulkhead-regulator/38670/ It would probably be better (and certainly tidier) to replace the gas ‘pigtail' that you use to connect to a Calor 6kg propane bottle with a pigtail that will directly connect to the adapter required for a Le Cube container, rather than employ a secondary adapter as Keith has suggested. An appropriate pigtail and Le Cube ‘full pressure’ adapter are shown in the photo in the 1st posting on the link. Le Cube comes in in two types - 5kg(propane) or 6kg(butane) - but the ‘full pressure’ adapter is the same for both. Propane and butane Le Cubes also have the same external dimensions. https://www.butagaz.fr/bouteilles-de-gaz/choisir-bouteille If you find that your motorhome’s gas locker should accomodate a Le Cube container (dimensions here) https://www.butagaz.fr/bouteilles-de-gaz/cube-propane it would be much better TO OBTAIN IN THE UK the pigtail and adapter that are shown in the photo in the 2015 forum thread and that are advertised on the following links https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/gas/caravan-gas-fittings/gas-regulators/clip-on-gas-regulators-and-adaptors/27mm-adaptor-for-french-le-cube-and-bp-lightweight https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/gas/caravan-gas-fittings/gas-hose-and-copper-tube/pigtail-hose-for-butane-and-propane-gas/pigtail-hose-for-butane-20inch-long As you will be abroad for 5 to 6 weks and plan to be 'off-site’ for most of that time, there’s a fair likelihood that 2 x 6kg Calor bottles won’t be sufficient. If your Calor bottles should run out, if you already had the necessary pigtail and adapter to use a Le Cube, it would just be a matter of obtaining a Le Cube container that’s widely available in France. On the other hand, if you did not have the necessary pigtail and adapter, besides needing to obtain a Le Cube container in France, you’d need to acquire the pigtail and adapter there. In principle, doing the latter OUGHT to be straightforward - in practice this definitely may not be so. This 2015 discussion shows how things can go badly wrong when someone was prepared to accept well-meaning but inexpert advice in France. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Warning-Gas/38630/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potus4388 Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 Many thanks for all your advice in respect of this subject, Derek your post is excellent and very comprehensive indeed, I should have made this enquiry some time ago, as suggested, it would make sense to obtain the parts here prior to departing, however, I have left it too late for that now. I shall venture forth and see how it all works out and if needed, will have to try and obtain parts in France.(at least I will have photos to show now) Travel hopefully may be a good motto in this case ! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 These two French adverts https://www.mon-camping-car.com/article/1581/lyre-gaz-haute-pression-70-cm https://www.mon-camping-car.com/article/1619/adaptateur-butagaz-cube-sur-lyre relate to a 70cm gas ‘pigtail’ and to an adapter for a “Le Cube” container. I strongly advise you to visit a French motorhome/caravan dealership (They will be open from Tuesday through Saturday morning) if you need to obtain the parts, and NOT consult supermarket or DIY-store personnel. As your Elddis is a 2017 model it quite likely has a Truma ‘green button’ anti-rupture pigtail with the left-hand-threaded POL connector appropriate for a Calor propane canister (example here) https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/gas/caravan-gas-fittings/gas-regulators/drive-safe-gas-regulators-truma/truma-drive-safe-regulator-high-pressure-hose-with-rupture-protection-propane Equivalent hoses are available for French canisters (example here) https://www.h2r-equipements.com/tuyau-lyre-detendeur-gaz-camping-car/4894-truma-lyre-hp-a-securite-de-rupture.html but these are expensive and many French motorhome/caravan dealerships won’t keep them in stock. All you’d really need if your Calor bottles ran out and you needed to use a Le Cube would be a basic inexpensive pigtail with no ‘smart’ security features. This would preclude you from legally running a gas heater while driving, but that’s just something you’d have to accept. You also need to be aware that a French-marketed pigtail has an end-fitting that differs from the end-fitting of a UK-purchased equivalent pigtail. The end-fiiting of a French pigtail that attaches to the gas bottle (or to a Le Cube adapter) has a circular ’nut’ with protrusions on its outer edge, whereas the UK pigtail has a normal nut with ‘flats’. Both nuts have the same internal left-hand threading, but the French end-fitting is tightened/undone with a specialised spanner that hooks on to the protrusions. These spanners come in various designs, in metal or plastic, and the asking-price varies a lot. (examples here) https://tinyurl.com/y8usper7 (As you’d be connecting the French pigtail to a Le Cube adapter rather than directly to a gas-bottle, you should be able to use a ‘mole-wrench’ to tighten up the pigtail’s end-fitting, thus side-stepping the need to obtain the special spanner. That assumes, of course, that you’d have a mole-wrench with you...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffheads Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Hi, We travel all round Europe with 2 x 13kg Calor propane bottles and use a refilling adaptor to refill in most countries visited. Check out ebay for these adaptors, that come with different country refilling nozzles. The cost is only about £45, and this will save all the hassle of changing bottles and regulators. Please try and ignore the comments that will follow about the danger of refilling bottles, it's only common sense that is needed to do this safely, and do not fill to more than 80%. Always fill EMPTY bottles with the amount specified on the supplied adaptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Deffheads As John (potus4388) has said that he will not have enough time to obtain in the UK a replacement pigtail and Le Cube adapter before he heads off to France, it’s logical to assume that he won’t have sufficient time to get the refilling adapter you recommend before going abroad. This type of refilling adapter is readily available in the UK and there are on-line video-clips showing how to use it https://tinyurl.com/ya59evoe Besides infringing Calor’s hire-contract regulations https://www.calor.co.uk/news/calor-warns-about-unlawful-filling-of-lpg-cylinders-at-autogas-refuelling-sites/ the practice is inherently risky (as a Calor bottle has no cut-off valve to prevent over-filling) and will generally be frowned on in France if an autogas service-station attendant spots that it’s being done. I have one of these adapters (and it has no non-return valve) so it would be hypocritical for me to preach about using them. But it needs to be understood that their usage is potentially a LOT riskier than having a ‘proper’ user-refillable canister (eg. a Gaslow bottle) that has built-in safety features and can be topped up when convenient rather than being allowed to become completely empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffheads Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 I understand the risks, but if bought from LPG GPL on Ebay they come with non return valve and various country adapters and could be a much cheaper back up plan than buying a system that only works in France. I have seen people with Gaslow nozzles mounted on very flimsy body panels and thought how much more dangerous the wobbly connection is. I have filled up all over France with no problems, and in Spain the petrol station attendants carry there own adapters and fill bottles for you. You have to tell them how many litres to achieve 80%. If ordered today the adapters would be delivered by mid week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 We both understand the risks involved in using this type of refilling adapter, but it’s another matter whether such risks will be obvious to a motorcaravanner whose only gas-related experience has involved use of exchange-only canisters (Calor, Flogas, etc.) LPG GPL advertise the adapter here http://lpggpl.com/product/gas-bottle-adaptor-for-filling-lpg-propane/ but - while trumpeting that its use will make financial savings - they fail to mention that no exchange-only bottle (Calor or otherwise) is owned by the user and that DIY-refilling (rather than exchanging the bottle) will be forbidden by the company to whom the bottle belongs. It’s also not mentioned that, in some countries (France is one) DIY-refilling of exchange-only gas bottles with autogas is prohibited. This prohibition is made clear on this French website https://gazissimo.fr/regles-a-respecter/est-il-possible-de-remplir-bouteille-de-gaz though this hasn’t prevented it being possible to obtain in France a basic refilling adapter that attaches directly to the traditional threaded outlet of a French gas bottle. http://forum-camping-car.fr/camping-car_accessoire_equipement/45/Gaz-Adaptateur-GPL-type-510.html UK guidance regarding refilling ‘free-standng’ gas bottles is provided here https://tinyurl.com/y6whqzua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 I understand that there will be some people who are knowledgeable and diligent enough to be able to fill rental bottles using adapters like these but encouraging motorhomers in general to use this method, even as an emergency resort, strikes me as highly irresponsible. The vast majority of motorhomers will never be able to do this safely and some of them will suffer as a result - and maybe they will cause injury, perhaps catastrophic injury, to others in the process too.Also I don't believe it will be possible these days to use these adapters all over Europe. Last year I was refused a refill (of my perfectly safe re-fillable system) in a garage on Portugal (which doesn't allow motorhomes to refill with LPG at all) and the only way you are likely to get away with refilling using these adapters in UK or Europe at any petrol station is by hiding what you are up to in some way, for example by leaving the bottles in the gas locker and making sure the locker faces away from the person operating the station. I've read before that you can get rental bottles refilled in some Spanish LPG depots and maybe you can - but to suggest that it's available anywhere in Spain just doesn't seem at all likely to be true.So these adapters are not a sensible or safe way of obtaining LPG for any motorhomer so even if you are determined to take the risks of using one yourself, please don't encourage others to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 StuartO - 2018-09-16 5:21 PM So these adapters are not a sensible or safe way of obtaining LPG for any motorhomer so even if you are determined to take the risks of using one yourself, please don't encourage others to do so. Stuart, I totally agree with you and am seriously considering moderating this thread to remove reference to the illegal practice as Warners may be liable if anyone follows this advise. What do others think before I do? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffheads Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Hi I give up!! you lot know much more than I do,So listen to the old fogies and spend s--t loads of money to be righteous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 It’s questionable whether using one of these adapters is actually illegal in the UK provided that the autogas supplier is happy about it (though most prabably won’t be!) It’s also the case that not all non-UK countries will prohibit this method of bottle refilling. The adapters are marketed in the UK and it’s not illegal to sell them or to own them. Their existence is well known and their usage has been discussed on motorhome forums for at least 15 years. As here, the potential risks (and the flouting of the bottle owner’s hire-contact rules) have been emphasised when the adapters have been discussed. My view is that, when the adapters are mentioned/recommended, it’s preferable to permit the negatives to be highlighted rather than take suppressive ‘moderator action’. There are previous references to the things on this forum and in those discussions their pros and cons have been allowed to be stated. I wouldn’t recommend their use, but if someone asked about them I’d rather they know where the risks lie and can then make their own judgement about whether or not to buy/use one. (If you really want to moderate, I don’t care!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffheads Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 I would suggest that the original post makes his/ her own mind up, rather than listening to negative thoughts. As a backup adapters are great. Although I use them all over and in UK. Do I care about Calor regs NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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