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Gas regulator(s)
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userLibby2017
Posted: 16 January 2021 7:42 PM
Subject: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Location: East Yorkshire. WE have a Burstner Delfin 680


We have a Burstner Delfin 680 that has a leaking regulator. Happy to sort out the replacement. My question is it normal or safe? to have two regulators?

Our set up, for which we use butane, has a bulkhead regulator as well as one that screws into the gas bottle (where the leak is). The second regulator is a DIY job where the previous owner has cut off the end of a pigtail and attached the regulator fixing with a hoseclip.

Do we need the two regulators? Advice and suggestions please.

Many thanks
Kevin
userRobinhood
Posted: 16 January 2021 8:43 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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I'm wary of advising people on gas issues, for obvious reasons. But since you asked (please note the caveat in the text).

If I'm interpreting correctly, the setup is a bottle-top regulator, feeding into a bulkhead regulator via a modified (bulkhead regulator) pigtail?

So:

No, you don't need two regulators, either a bottle-top or a bulkhead is sufficient (and having two in series, whilst it might just work, is very unconventional, and I suspect not the most effective setup).

One can only conjecture how it ended up like that, but my guess would be that either:

i) a previous owner didn't understand the concept of bulkhead regulators, or

ii) the bulkhead regulator has failed in some way which effectively allows a straight passthru, and a previous owner has taken a cheap and cheerful way of overcoming the issue, or

iii) more unlikely, but the previous owner had a propane pigtail, and has somewhat perversely cannibalised that and added a butane regulator in order to use butane!

If my description of the setup is correct, I would suggest (since it doesn't appear that it is the one that is leaking) you check out the functioning of the bulkhead regulator alone by obtaining the appropriate pigtail, and connecting it direct to the bottle. (do be careful in the use of any appliance for testing, however, just in case it is offering a direct passthru at full pressure - a very quick open and close of a gas ring without lighting and with no open flames nearby should probably provide evidence of the pressure, and whether it is considerably higher (i.e. unregulated) than you are used to. NB. I would do this, but I'm wary of giving advice to someone else to do so - your judgement ).

If that appears to be working, then your issue is resolved.

If it isn't working correctly, then, regardless of the state of the bottle-top regulator, I would suggest replacement of the bulkhead regulator.

OTOH, in the case of failure (which is not unknown) a bottle-top regulator is an easier/cheaper prospect to replace, and is small and cheap enough to carry a spare. Some people replace a bulkhead regulator with bottle-top.

As far as the existing bottle-top regulator is concerned, As you mention it screws onto the bottle, it won't be a clip on. So, the questions are, is the nut cross-threaded, is it fully tightened (note, it is an unconventional left-hand thread), and is the required washer inside the connection, and in good condition? (It is also not unknown for the bottle itself to have damage precluding a decent seal, though this is more prevalent on propane bottles)

If you wish to continue with bottle-top use, then the bulkhead regulator should be removed, and a fixed, flexible hose connected securely to the pipe that currently takes the output. The existing (if checked) or a new bottle-top regulator should then be securely attached to the other end of the flexible hose.

And TBH, I'd strongly advise a migration to propane - much better for all-year round (and even shoulder season) use.
usercolin
Posted: 16 January 2021 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Is the bottle reg screw on or clip on? I'm thinking if clip on, the previous owner wanted a quick way of changing butane bottles.
userwitzend
Posted: 16 January 2021 10:51 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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You shouldn't need 2 regulators I'd just get a new butane pigtail https://tinyurl.com/y2ez8qam
and one of these https://tinyurl.com/yxf8v5ub which is just a connector not a regulator

Edited by witzend 2021-01-16 10:53 PM
userOcsid
Posted: 17 January 2021 6:41 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Firstly, as it is stated there is a leak, it can't be "safe", that has to be addressed immediately if it is to be used.

Our systems are definitely not intended to use two regulators in series as described.
The bottle regulator by design * normally controls to 28mbar a lower pressure than the bulkhead regulator which is designed to control the pressure to 30mbar. [In the UK, butane bottle regulator normally are 28mbar, if propane 37mbar ]
The MH and equipment would have been designed to operate on 30 mbar, but tolerate use at 28mbar.

As is, it is a bodge to get over some issue.

If relatively modern, ie last 10 years the design would be with the bulkhead regulator, suitable for butane or propane.
Going either route, a bulkhead or bottle mounted regulator is a safe solution.

*There are 30mbar bottle mounted regulators, more commonly used on the continent than here in the UK. My 13 year old Hymer uses one and Gaslow can supply a replacement.
These and the 30mbar bulkhead regulators are used for both butane and propane, adaptors and or "pigtail" hoses are available to adapt to each.

As others have said, when sorting it out go down a route to switch to propane, simply because it is viable down below an ambient of 0 C, whereas challenges can occur with butane below 5 or 6 C, and guaranteed failure to gas off below 0C.



Edited by Ocsid 2021-01-17 6:57 AM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 17 January 2021 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Kevin

It might be helpful to know the age of your Burstner Delfin 680 and how long you’ve owned it.

(Delfin 680 models were originally built (I think from 2004 to 2008) on a Renault Master chassis, but nowadays 680s are on a Ducato base.)

If two gas-regulators in full working order are fitted in series, the gas system should not work correctly as the double regulation will result in an inadequate gas-flow from the 2nd regulator. The system might work OK when gas demand is low (enough say for a fridge running on gas) but the demand of a powerful gas heater/boiler, gas hob or oven should be too high for the appliance to operate satisfactorily. (I vaguely recall (perhaps 15 years ago) the owner of a recently-bought imported LHD Laika saying here that, having fitted an on-bottle regulator, the motorhome’s main gas appliances would not work properly and eventually discovering a 2nd regulator hidden away in the top of the gas locker. )

The gas pressure for leisure-vehicles was ’normalised’ to 30mbar (in 2004?) resulting in bulkhead-mounted regulators being fitted to UK-built motorhomes. But it was still commonplace for new German-built motorhomes to be factory-fitted with a simple 30mbar on-bottle regulator. (My 2005 LHD Hobby motorhome had that arrangement.)

The ‘safe' options in your case are

1 - Bulkhead-mounted regulator with a high-pressure gas hose (‘pigtail’) connecting the regulator to the gas bottle either directly or with a full-pressure adapter on the pigtail’s gas-bottle end.

OR

2 - A 28mbar (butane) or 37mbar (propane) regulator attached to the gas bottle with a (low-pressure) hose connecting that regulator to the motorhome’s metal gas pipework.

As Robinhood has warned above, DIYing and motorhome gas systems are a potentially lethal combination. These two 2015 forum threads should be an object lesson.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/French-gas/38479/

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Warning-Gas/38630/

As far as I’m aware the only 'screw-fitting’ regulator for a UK butane gas bottle screws on to a Calor 4.5kg canister via a female nut, with all other butane regulators being the clip-on type. On-bottle regulators that screw INTO the gas bottle (via a male screw fitting) would be for propane containers.

I strongly advise you to get a professinal (motorhome or caravan dealer) to check out your motorhome’s gas system. There some worrying anomalies in your description and - based on your original question about whether two regulators are needed, normal or safe - I believe you'd be unwise to DIY this.




userLibby2017
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Location: East Yorkshire. WE have a Burstner Delfin 680


Hi
Many thanks for your reply. It all sounds sensible. I now that the leak where the regulator screws into the bottle as I've tested it with an electronic gas leak detector.

I'll try the test on the bulkhead with a new pigtail. We're getting a service done before we use her again.

Thanks

Kevin
userOcsid
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-17 9:15 AM

OR

2 - A 28mbar (butane) or 37mbar (propane) regulator attached to the gas bottle with a (low-pressure) hose connecting that regulator to the motorhome’s metal gas pipework.

As stated earlier, there is a further safe option to have a bottle mounted system but offering the now standard 30mbar regulation, so suitable for use with both propane and butane LPGs, along with the right adaptors any bottle connection used here or abroad.

It was and remains the factory fitted system we have in our 13 year old Hymer.
It is fundamentally safer in principle than the present NCC bulkhead system, in it features no high pressure hose.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is based on this GOK regulator, that allows input adaptors for all the various bottle connections to be fitted.

GOK CAMPING REGULATOR 30MBAR HIGH QUALITY PRESSURE REGULATOR

https://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/motorhome-and-caravan/vapour-tanks-valves-and-fitting-kits/regulators/gok-camping-regulator-30mbar-quality/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An example of the adaptor for propane, POL type:
Gaslow Easy-Fit Adaptor

https://gasproducts.co.uk/gaslow-easy-fit-adaptor.html?currency=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3Y-ABhCnARIsAKYDH7uCSYBR1fIZtN-j995al8J9rl31LQHOBO0hAOI08SlIuQGIKzm5IQ0aAnnBEALw_wcB

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The regulator is connected to the motor home's pipe work with a low pressure hose, this example fitted with compression fitting for 8 mm tubing:

HOSE FOR CAMPING REGULATOR – 40CM

https://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/motorhome-and-caravan/vapour-tanks-valves-and-fitting-kits/regulators/hose-for-camping-regulator-50cm/
userLibby2017
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Location: East Yorkshire. WE have a Burstner Delfin 680


Hi Colin

It's screw in. Thy spent long periods off grid in France so they may have has a similar set up but with a continental style regulator.

Thanks
Kevin
userLibby2017
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:24 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Location: East Yorkshire. WE have a Burstner Delfin 680


Hi Witzend

Thanks for the help.

Kevin
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-17 9:15 AM.............................................I strongly advise you to get a professinal (motorhome or caravan dealer) to check out your motorhome’s gas system. There some worrying anomalies in your description and - based on your original question about whether two regulators are needed, normal or safe - I believe you'd be unwise to DIY this.

Please don't take this the wrong way , but the fact that you've asked the question suggests you may not be fully up to speed on cylinder gas installations. If that is a reasonable deduction, I think the above is by far the safest course to follow. Getting someone competent to carry out a thorough gas check on your installation seems the only safe way forward.

The very simple answer to your question is that there should only be one regulator, and that regulator must be appropriate for the appliances installed in your van (there have been various regulators for various gases and appliances in the past), and we don't know what types the two regulators are, nor whether either is appropriate for your hob, fridge, heater, etc. It is mildly surprising that the installation as you describe it works at all, which kind of suggests that at least one of the regulators is either defective or is redundant, and the only way to find out safely is to test the gas pressure downstream of the regulator, the pass-through capacity of the regulator, and test the system for leaks. Those tests require an appropriately qualified technician.
userLibby2017
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Hi Ocsid

Libby is a 2006 registration. The bulkhead regulator according to a sticker in gas cupboard the bulkhead is rated to 30mbar. We noticed a smell on our last trip out in September and stopped using gas and curtailed our trip.

I agree that what we have at the moment is a botch. As I've mentioned in a previous reply I'll try testing the bulkhead regulator. If that has an issue then I'll get it replaced. If not I'll just use a pigtail connection.

As a follow on question, are pigtails to fit a continental bottle easy available?

Thanks

Kevin
userLibby2017
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Location: East Yorkshire. WE have a Burstner Delfin 680


Hi Derek

Thanks for your advise. Libby is a 2006 Reg and I've said in the thread has a 30 mbar bulkhead fitted in the gas locker. I'm going to do a simple pressure test if that's OK then I'll stick with the bulkhead regulator and pigtail solution. If on the other hand its not then we are having a full habitation service and we'll get a new bulkhead regulator fitted.

Many thanks

Kevin
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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I'm still wary about your regulator that screws INTO your butane gas bottle.

This link describes the on-bottle regulators used with the most widely available UK gas bottles

https://www.gasequipmentdirect.co.uk/which-gas-regulator-do-i-need-c1200x60773

All of the butane bottles use a 'clip on' type of regulator except for the Calor 4.5kg container where the regulator screws ON TO the bottle.

The only regulator that screws INTO a UK-available butane canister would be if the canister were a Campingaz one, but I can't see you choosing to use Campingaz with your motorhome.

The majority of UK on-bottle propane regulators do screw into a 'standard' UK propane bottle and, as the joint is normally metal-to-metal, the connection has plenty of potential for leakage.
userLibby2017
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Hi Brian

Thanks for the advise, and I appreciate your concerns. I'm happy to check and replace items from the bottle up to the bulkhead regulator but no further as I know my limitations.

Thanks

Kevin
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Yes, but the risk from a defective regulator lies downstream from the regulator, not upstream (i.e. not between the cylinder and the regulator).

Edited by Brian Kirby 2021-01-17 11:57 AM
userRobinhood
Posted: 17 January 2021 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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I have to say, I would re-echo my words of caution in my opening reply. Unless you are entirely competent/confident, I'd have a professional take a view.

I've seen mention of people relatively successfully using two regulators in series, (particularly on boating forums) but the reason for doing so is a mystery to me. As above, I can conjecture about a number of reasons why yours has ended up like that, but there are also others.

If you do decide to go ahead, given your planned test, and the location of the regulator label you mention (i.e. not on the device), I'd check very carefully that the item attached to the bulkhead is, in fact, a regulator, and not, for example, a vapour filter (since that would make somewhat more sense than running two regulators in series).

Your final question makes me wonder whether you are currently using French (or other continental) butane bottles, as this would make a bit more sense of the screw-connected regulator (as already mentioned above, generally only used on the smaller 4.5kg bottle in the UK).

Pigtails for French butane bottles with a screw-on (rather than clip-on) connection are 21.8LH thread at the bottle end, and are the same as the pigtail to fit on a 4.5kg Calor butane, so are generally quite available in the UK (they'll also fit a lot of continental propane bottles, but not a UK one).

Do be careful!
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 17 January 2021 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Brian

That depends where the leakage is.

It could be at the joint between the bottle and the on-bottle regulator; the regulator itself could be leaking (on-bottle regulators weren't known for reliable longevity and many leisure-vehicle owners carried a spare regulator); or the leakage could be where the gas hose connects to the regulator, when that would be 'downstream'.
userRobinhood
Posted: 17 January 2021 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Brian Kirby - 2021-01-17 11:56 AM

Yes, but the risk from a defective regulator lies downstream from the regulator, not upstream (i.e. not between the cylinder and the regulator).

Indeed, Brian, and (under the circumstances) I'm reconsidering my advice on a self-test of the bulkhead regulator.

If the regulator has completely failed, there is a chance of exposing the upstream gas system to full bottle pressure. If it's in decent condition it should resist that, but.......

One would normally test the regulator function by isolating the regulator output, and using the test-cock/screw to check the output pressure. (thereby protecting the onboard gas circuit). Bulkhead regulators normally have this capability built in.

Again, with some understanding of how this works, I might do a brief test myself, but I'm increasingly wary of recommending it. It's a risk one takes with a new regulator (especially with a bottle top one, which I suspect no-one does a pressure test on when replacing), but, with a suspicion that something is already a bit "iffy", discretion is probably the better part of valour.
userOcsid
Posted: 17 January 2021 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Libby2017 - 2021-01-17 11:37 AM

As a follow on question, are pigtails to fit a continental bottle easy available?

Thanks

Kevin

Yes, but I suggest using what we here in the UK call a butane threaded pigtail, then that LH threaded hose allows you to purchase the propane POL screw adaptor I linked, a butane 21 mm clip on, a 27 mm clip on for Gaslights & Le Cubes & a Campinggaz adaptor, or as required, covers nearly all connections you might ever encounter.

That is how I cover the options, carry just a few adaptors.
userweldted
Posted: 17 January 2021 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Just out of interest why butane?
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 17 January 2021 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-17 12:05 PM
Brian
That depends where the leakage is.
It could be at the joint between the bottle and the on-bottle regulator; the regulator itself could be leaking (on-bottle regulators weren't known for reliable longevity and many leisure-vehicle owners carried a spare regulator); or the leakage could be where the gas hose connects to the regulator, when that would be 'downstream'.

Quite, but it seemed from this My bold):
Libby2017 - 2021-01-16 7:42 PM
.....................................
Our set up, for which we use butane, has a bulkhead regulator as well as one that screws into the gas bottle (where the leak is). ........................................
Many thanks
Kevin

that Kevin had already chased down the possible leaks within the gas locker, leaving the possibility of any further leaks, or mis-matches between appliances and the actual, delivered, gas pressures, untested.

I'm also a mite uneasy that although the assumed pressure of the bulkhead regulator is 30mbar, that is only being derived from this (my bold again) "The bulkhead regulator according to a sticker in gas cupboard the bulkhead is rated to 30mbar."

That is reasonable and logical for a vehicle of that age, but as some "bodging" has been carried out by a previous owner, I'd be more happy if that information came from the regulator itself - and even happier if the pressure delivered by the regulator had been proved.

After all, if the bulkhead reg. is 100%, why on earth would the previous owner install a cylinder with a screw on regulator as well, instead of simply installing a pigtail to connect the cylinder? (I can speculate on several answers to that question, but none of them gives me much confidence that the rest of the installation is sound or reliable! )
userOcsid
Posted: 17 January 2021 1:25 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Given the age of the MH being mentioned, the bodge, the leak etc, I would start with fitting new kit.
userAlanb
Posted: 17 January 2021 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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I have been scanning this thread out of interest, and then as I was previously unaware of the GOK or similar 30mBar cylinder regulator investigated further.

My apologies if I have missed an earlier posting, but the following simple explanation comes to mind.

Is what the OP has in his MH, simply a butane adapter similar to that detailed here. At first look the circular shape of the adaptor suggests "regulator". Hence some possible confusion.

Also as we are discussing the external thread of a 4.8kg butane bottle, could it not be that the leak is due to a faulty washer?

Alan

userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 17 January 2021 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Brian Kirby - 2021-01-17 1:01 PM

...After all, if the bulkhead reg. is 100%, why on earth would the previous owner install a cylinder with a screw on regulator as well, instead of simply installing a pigtail to connect the cylinder? (I can speculate on several answers to that question, but none of them gives me much confidence that the rest of the installation is sound or reliable! )

The links in my posting of 17 January 2021 9:15 AM above described the following scenario.

A UK motorcaravenner with limited experience of motorhomes and none of the bottled-gas sitiuation abroad went to France and obtained a French “Le Cube” gas container from a DIY-type retailer. The Le Cube (probably the butane version intended for domestic use) came with a ‘free’ on-bottle regulator and the shop assistant helped with the fitting. The end result was a regulator on the Le Cube bottle with a hose leading to the bulkhead-mounted regulator and (somewhat surprisingly) the system apprently worked OK.

The motorcaravanner asked here about having a bulkhead-mounted gas regulator and an on-bottle regulator 'in series' and was advised that this was incorrect The next step involved another French retailer where a “very knowledgeable chap” removed the on-bottle regulator, fitted a full-pressure adapter to the Le Cube and then connectied that adapter to the bulkhead-mounted regulator using low pressure gas hose. Shortly afterwards the hose ruptured, fortunately without anyone being injured or the motorhome being damaged. The UK motorcaravanner then drove 60 miles to a motorhome specialist’s premises where, within 30 minutes, the correct high-pressure pigtail was fitted and the motorhome’s gas system became safe and usable.

Accurate advice about connecting a Le Cube container to the motorhome’s gas system had been provided shortly before the motorcaravanner’s trip to France, but what had not been emphasised was that - given the motorcaravanner’s lack of gas-related expertise - the installation should be entrusted to a motorhome/caravan dealership.

A photo of the Kevin’s gas bottle with the regulator on it might well explain what’s going on, but as he is having his motorhome serviced before it will be next used, I be tempted to leave well alone and let gas-savvy professionals deal with it.

Kevin’s Burstner’s bulkhead-mounted regulator may be the Truma/GOK product that would have been generally factory-fitted in 2006, If that’s so and the regulator is the original one and still working, it might still be worth replacing it. These regulators had a notoriously high failure rate, though failure invariably involved gas not passing through the regulator and not the regulator allowing gas to go through it unregulated. However, as these regulators gained such a bad reputation for ‘clogging’, an original Truma/GOK one may well have been replaced with an alternative by now.

This example advert (asking prices do vary!!) shows a Truma/GOK regulator similar to what was being fitted in 2006. It came in two flavours for 8mm or 10mm metal gas pipework and I think the design has changed subtly since then.

https://www.caravanaccessoryshop.co.uk/product/truma-regulator-30mbar-1-5kg-8mm/1476

(Basically, it may not nowadays be possible to carry out a 5-minute exact like-for-like Truma/GOK regulator swap.)
userOcsid
Posted: 17 January 2021 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 
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Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-17 2:55 PM

The end result was a regulator on the Le Cube bottle with a hose leading to the bulkhead-mounted regulator and (somewhat surprisingly) the system apprently worked OK.

Purely for academic debate and I stress not something I would do or endorse, but IMO using a dual stage 30mbar regulator downstream of a 27mbar regulator, ought to "work", or more rightly, cause no real issue*.

Clearly the bulkhead regulator's, first stage of regulation will be a wide open through route as it seeks only to react to a very much greater intermediate pressure, that here can't exist. The second stage will be seeking to act at 30mbar but is only going to see 27mbar so, again it will not try to regulate the output either.

* The possible issue might be inadequacy of the porting to shift enough gas flow, as its first stage sizing will only be to port still quite compressed gas.

Therefore, on reflection it "working", in so far as it not bothering to get involved, does not surprise me.

However. LPG is potentially dangerous stuff and a case where adoption of standard practices only should be promoted, the more so for its use in general "user" applications.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 17 January 2021 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Alanb - 2021-01-17 1:44 PM...........................
Is what the OP has in his MH, simply a butane adapter similar to that detailed here. At first look the circular shape of the adaptor suggests "regulator". Hence some possible confusion.
Also as we are discussing the external thread of a 4.8kg butane bottle, could it not be that the leak is due to a faulty washer?
Alan

I think both are possible Alan, but as none of us can be certain what is actually there, and as Kevin was puzzled by what he found, I think his best option at present is to get the system professionally checked so that the next intervention is to put right whatever is wrong. Gas isn't that complicated, but getting it wrong can prove "exciting" if not actually hazardous.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 17 January 2021 6:13 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Ocsid - 2021-01-17 4:05 PM

Purely for academic debate and I stress not something I would do or endorse, but IMO using a dual stage 30mbar regulator downstream of a 27mbar regulator, ought to "work", or more rightly, cause no real issue*...

In the 1st link I provided earlier, after the Le Cube bottle and two regulators ‘in series’ issue came to light, forum-member “coach200’ commented

"I had problems with this arrangement of 2 regulators in line as they are not designed to operate in this way. I have a Truma blown air heating system and the pressure was too low. If I remember rightly the hob rings jets were also smaller than they should be. The reason I ended up with 2 regulators was that I already had the Le Cube from a previous van. If you do have problems you can get round this by changing the regulator on the bottle for a valve that only opens and closes without regulating the pressure. You can get these off the internet. Or do away with the fixed one. If your gas system seems to be working ok with more than 1 item turned on you may be alright but be prepared for the worst.

This is what happened with the Laika owner I mentioned - a low demand gas appliance would run OK, but high demand appliances would not.

The other thing was that the motorcaravanner who had bought a Le Cube bottle in France was holidaying there in mid-June, so gas heating is unlikely to have been in use.
userHans
Posted: 17 January 2021 6:38 PM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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I think all is correct what Brian Said. Only one first stage regulator set at 30 mBAR. Including a relief to ATM and shutoff in case of failure to avoid the full bottle pressure in the motor home.However your BG station in your street underground or cabin has always TWO regulators, valve shut off trip and Relief valve to ATM. And inlet shut-Off valve manual. The two regulators are called Active And Monitor. If active fails and MUST be fail in open position the Monitor takes over in a somewhat higher outlet pressure. Regulators can be fail open or fail close.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 18 January 2021 8:52 AM
Subject: RE: Gas regulator(s)
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Historically, French-registered leisure-vehicles had a type of ‘dual regulator’ system when propane gas was used.

This system involved a “pré-détendeur de sécurité” (arrowed in image attached below) where the pressure of the propane gas (up to 20bar) leaving the gas bottle was first regulated to 1.5bar, then down to 30mbar by a secondary regulating stage.

Nowadays French-made motothomes just have a single 30mbar bulkhead-mounted regulator, usually a Truma-branded one.



(regulator.jpg)



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