freeflow Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 i maybe need to get new batteries, but there is no label on them, but it says in the compartment one should use lead-gel or can I use lead-acid leisure batteries as I always used? The charger and transformer control unit says one can use lead-acid, so it is a contradiction. My ones are 105 amp, any suggestion for cheap ones? Adria coral 680sl 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-90ah-varta-lfd-90-professional-leisure-battery-930090080/ https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-yuasa-100ah-efb-leisure-battery-l36-efb/ https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-nordstar-efb-carbon-leisure-battery/ Most lead acid batteries vent gas when charging so in theory shouldn't be fitted in the cabin without a vent tube. Gel batteries will vent less but so should Varta LFD mentioned above. The charger simply states it can be used for either, but not specifically for your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeflow Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 spirou - 2019-10-09 9:29 AM https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-90ah-varta-lfd-90-professional-leisure-battery-930090080/ https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-yuasa-100ah-efb-leisure-battery-l36-efb/ https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-nordstar-efb-carbon-leisure-battery/ Most lead acid batteries vent gas when charging so in theory shouldn't be fitted in the cabin without a vent tube. Gel batteries will vent less but so should Varta LFD mentioned above. The charger simply states it can be used for either, but not specifically for your situation. so venting and charging is the only issue not the performance then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 freeflow - 2019-10-09 11:12 AM so venting and charging is the only issue not the performance then? No, Gel batteries are claimed to better withstand the aging from being discharged, particularly "deep discharging", so if you are going to be using them in a way that discharges them to any great extent, then the life cycles you should get will be longer. I use an Exide 90 Ah Gel, and predominately camp off an EHU, though with solar, and the life span I achieved was exceptionally good. I therefore, lean towards believing the claim about them. That said if you are really into deep discharging any of them, the life will be very short, and so if abusing the batteries in that way opting for something really cheap might be more cost effective, Gels are expensive. Edit: I ought to add I was advised by my supplier that they are not best suited for high current drains. So if the plan is to use them with a significant sized inverter they will be damaged more than a battery of technology more akin the a "starter" battery, ie one designed for high cranking currents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalange Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I have Varta LFD90 ‘s in my Adria and don’t have any issues, just make sure the little switch on your electrobloc is switched to lead acid batteries and any solar controller you may have is also set to lead acid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 In simplified terms a gel battery will be more resistant to repeated deep discharging but does so at a lower efficiency i.e. needs more (solar?) time to recharge. Also, as mentioned, not so good with high loads most commonly seen from high power inverters. If you want to go deeper into understanding all of this, you should probably start with reading: http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeflow Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 ok thanks, now one more related question, I got 2 105mp batteries, is there any reason i can not just fit 1 210 amp battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 A lot of discussion in the past, and this site is the most comprehensive. http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/ But cheap batteries seem to have misleading power ratings on them. Best to stick to a good brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 freeflow - 2019-10-09 3:05 PM ok thanks, now one more related question, I got 2 105mp batteries, is there any reason i can not just fit 1 210 amp battery? Yes, most likely won't fit in the space available. Otherwise no particular reason not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 My controller has a setting for gel batteries and has a lower charge than for a flooded battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 freeflow - 2019-10-09 2:05 PM ok thanks, now one more related question, I got 2 105mp batteries, is there any reason i can not just fit 1 210 amp battery? The massive weight to be manhandled, a good quality one could be around 70 kgs, even a low quality one will be over 50 kgs. Both far more than I would choose to lug about as a single lump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just a reminder, agm batteries are not gel, the g is for glass (as in absorbant glass mat), their advantage being that the acid doesn't spill out if knocked over. It's easy to confuse the two, but they are very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeflow Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 Is it possible to get your opinion on this battery?EFB and carbon are supposed to be best, apparently. Nordstar 12v 100ah Carbon EFB Leisure Battery Carbon EFB batteries are intended primarily for vehicles and leisure applications Made in Europe ideal for Caravans, Motorhomes and Boats. Their failure-free operation, high durability and excellent electrical Parameters have been achieved due to the use of thicker electrodes made in 3Dx technology, the implementation of an innovative method of seasoning and the use of modern carbon additives https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/brands/nordstar-batteries/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 We went for exide gel 80ah, so far so good but only bought it last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 freeflow The Yuasa website includes information on EFB, AGM and standard ‘flooded’ batteries https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/agm-efb-explained/ I think the manufacturer of NordStar batteries may also make Xplorer-branded batteries (also marketed by Alpha Batteries). I can’t find much on-line about either brand, but I expect Alpha Batteries could provide more information if you contact them. The following link was provided by the late-Allan Evans and should be essential reading for anyone considering replacing their motorhome’s leisure battery. http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php In the “The Best Batteries” section of that webpage Allan Evans offered five suggestions in price order. The two most expensive batteries are gel type and Allan listed their potential disadvantages. That leaves the Varta LFD/Bosch L ranges, the Yuasa L36-EFB and the Exide ET650. Varta LFD90 (£105) https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-90ah-varta-lfd-90-professional-leisure-battery-930090080/ Yuasa L36-EFB (£120) https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-yuasa-100ah-efb-leisure-battery-l36-efb/ Exide ET650 (£140) https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-et650-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/ All three have similar physical dimensions (though I see that Alpha Batteries states that their warranty is 2, 3 or 4 years respectively) and received wisdom is that the Halfords HLB700 battery https://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/leisure-batteries/halfords-leisure-battery-hlb700 is a ‘relabelled’ Yuasa L36-EFB (but slightly cheaper). Past comments from forum members have been positive about the Varta LFD90 that Allan Evans began to recommend several years ago. A pair of LFD90s for around £210 should suit you, or you could pay a bit extra for more ‘modern’ products and opt for two Yuasa/Halfords batteries or two Exide ET650s. The Varta, Yuasa and Exide batteries are all marketed by Alpha Batteries, as is the NordStar 100Ah EFB battery you’ve referred to. The NordStar battery is priced at £110 and the Halfords HLB700/Yuasa clone costs the same. I don’t know if the Nordstar battery might be superior or inferior to the Varta/Yuasa/Exide/Halfords batteries mentioned above and I don’t think any forum member could give you a definite answer about that. Ask Alpha Batteries opinion (though I’m not sure how they’d know for sure), but it really comes down to you accepting Allan Evans’s advice or going your own way. I’d probably choose a pair of Yuasa L36-EFB batteries, but don’t let that influence you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 freeflow - 2019-10-09 2:05 PM ok thanks, now one more related question, I got 2 105mp batteries, is there any reason i can not just fit 1 210 amp battery? There are many considerations when choosing which type and size of leisure battery to go for, many of which are covered in detail on the aandacaravan website, links to which have been provided for you, and still more, such as space to house a battery and whether a vent tube can be used, will be specific to the layout of your MH and the type of touring you do. For some of the choices there is clear evidence to provide a basis, for others there isn't. Many MH owners will lack confidence in what to choose and will simply ask a MH dealer to supply and fit a suitable battery, others want to do enough research to be able to decide for themselves. New technology continues to emerge so even the excellent advice on the aandacaravans website will eventually be outdated - but it's currently very good, so read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeflow Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 StuartO - 2020-01-19 9:03 AM freeflow - 2019-10-09 2:05 PM ok thanks, now one more related question, I got 2 105mp batteries, is there any reason i can not just fit 1 210 amp battery? There are many considerations when choosing which type and size of leisure battery to go for, many of which are covered in detail on the aandacaravan website, links to which have been provided for you, and still more, such as space to house a battery and whether a vent tube can be used, will be specific to the layout of your MH and the type of touring you do. For some of the choices, there is clear evidence to provide a basis, for others there isn't. Many MH owners will lack confidence in what to choose and will simply ask an MH dealer to supply and fit a suitable battery, others want to do enough research to be able to decide for themselves. New technology continues to emerge so even the excellent advice on the aandacaravans website will eventually be outdated - but it's currently very good, so read it. Done that, but we are doing mostly wild camping, can only have gel or lead-acid, so budget-wise we are restricted to £140 each, we got a large space which can take 2 large batteries like the 12v Exide 100ah ET650 semi traction leisure battery, which is a better choice than the varta or yusa on the aandacaravans website. but looking into it further than the aandacaravans website, which i also communicated with, apparently, Carbon added to batteries enhances them and with the efb technologies increase the life, reduces oxidation and improves deep cycle and tolerates partial charge and discharge more. we got 2 105 ah once but they do not last the night, also we like to keep heating on at night, use inverter, even it is gas it uses electric, the solar panel does not put out much in the winter, so we are heavy and demand on batteries, so i just wanted to know about these ones, because the Elecsol 110 Carbon and apparently was good and these once are similar with efb. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeflow Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-01-19 9:01 AM freeflow The Yuasa website includes information on EFB, AGM and standard ‘flooded’ batteries https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/agm-efb-explained/ I think the manufacturer of NordStar batteries may also make Xplorer-branded batteries (also marketed by Alpha Batteries). I can’t find much on-line about either brand, but I expect Alpha Batteries could provide more information if you contact them. The following link was provided by the late-Allan Evans and should be essential reading for anyone considering replacing their motorhome’s leisure battery. http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php In the “The Best Batteries” section of that webpage Allan Evans offered five suggestions in price order. The two most expensive batteries are gel type and Allan listed their potential disadvantages. That leaves the Varta LFD/Bosch L ranges, the Yuasa L36-EFB and the Exide ET650. Varta LFD90 (£105) https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-90ah-varta-lfd-90-professional-leisure-battery-930090080/ Yuasa L36-EFB (£120) https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-yuasa-100ah-efb-leisure-battery-l36-efb/ Exide ET650 (£140) https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-et650-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/ All three have similar physical dimensions (though I see that Alpha Batteries states that their warranty is 2, 3 or 4 years respectively) and received wisdom is that the Halfords HLB700 battery https://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/leisure-batteries/halfords-leisure-battery-hlb700 is a ‘relabelled’ Yuasa L36-EFB (but slightly cheaper). Past comments from forum members have been positive about the Varta LFD90 that Allan Evans began to recommend several years ago. A pair of LFD90s for around £210 should suit you, or you could pay a bit extra for more ‘modern’ products and opt for two Yuasa/Halfords batteries or two Exide ET650s. The Varta, Yuasa and Exide batteries are all marketed by Alpha Batteries, as is the NordStar 100Ah EFB battery you’ve referred to. The NordStar battery is priced at £110 and the Halfords HLB700/Yuasa clone costs the same. I don’t know if the Nordstar battery might be superior or inferior to the Varta/Yuasa/Exide/Halfords batteries mentioned above and I don’t think any forum member could give you a definite answer about that. Ask Alpha Batteries opinion (though I’m not sure how they’d know for sure), but it really comes down to you accepting Allan Evans’s advice or going your own way. I’d probably choose a pair of Yuasa L36-EFB batteries, but don’t let that influence you... Was hoping somebody can comment on The Elecsol 110 Carbon apparently, they were good and these once are similar with efb. The ones you quote Halfords HLB700/Yuasa do not contain the carbon element. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Was hoping somebody can comment on The Elecsol 110 Carbon apparently, they were good and these once are similar with efb. The ones you quote Halfords HLB700/Yuasa do not contain the carbon element. Thanks I've had the Elecsol for probably 6 or 7 years in our VW type 2 (which only gets used very occasionally now so batteries probably not looked after quite a well as they should) and just about to replace it, most likely with the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 freeflow There has been a good deal of discussion here about Elecsol batteries https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=elecsol&author=derek+uzzell&days=&Submit=Search This 2012 thread referring to the 110A ‘carbon’ version. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Elecsol-110-amp-battery/29617/ and this link to Elecsol information may be of interest https://www.tayna.co.uk/brands/elecsol/ Some Elecsol batteries died very young; others (like Sydney1’s battery) had a long life. The batteries were heavily advertised and there was doubt about the advertising’s accuracy generally and the claimed performance (eg. the Ah value) specifically. I don’t think the manufacturer of Elecsol batteries was ever established, but they were not made in the UK. Elecsol batteries had a long warranty duration (particularly the AGM batteries that Elecsol began to be market shortly before the company ceased trading) and many of the complaints related to the company’s attitude to under-warranty claims. This will be apparent from this Amazon review https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELECSOL-110-Carbon-Fibre-Battery/product-reviews/B004NLVFOM and this 2014 ybw.com discussion https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/elecsol-batteries-gone.393141/ I think that the ‘carbon’ feature related to a carbon ‘mat’ forming the Elecsol batteries’ plate-separators (and/or integrated into the plates themselves). This may have been unique at the time, but I don’t know if it had genuine advantages over the then-normal construction methodology. The standard (non-AGM) Elecsol battery was a dual-purpose lead-acid type and required no special charging regimen. Although new Elecsol-branded batteries have not been marketed for years, I note that some batteries are offered as ‘Elecsol equivalents’ (example here) https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/251222531779 but any of the 019-specification Varta/Yuasa/Exide/Halfords batteries I mentioned above should be at least as good (and probably better) than the now-old-tech Elecsol products. If you are attracted by the idea of an EFB battery and think the NordStar ‘carbon’ product might be better for you than the Yuasa/Halfords EFB battery, go for the NordStar - but I suggest you ask Alpha Batteries for advice first as they market Varta, Yuasa and Exide leiisure batteries as well as NordStar ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 freeflow I notice you've asked about Elecsol/NordStar batteries on the Practical Motorhome forum. Best of luck with that - ;-) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian81 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Based on experience we have used a pair of bog standard lead acid batteries installed in Macedonia in November 2011 for 8 years. They performed well using the motorhome 50% of the time (days) and rarely on hook up. They lasted till last November. Charging came from an average of 40 miles per day driving over the period and a 120W solar panel. Having tracked various threads and anandcaravans website over the years I replaced them with a pair of LFD90's. Less than £200. Highly satisfied. Our consumption is the usual lights etc. and diesel heating that draws a bit. TV but no dish use videos from a USB stick and no current hungry domestic appliances. Biggest drain is computer and other tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-01-20 3:26 PM freeflow I notice you've asked about Elecsol/NordStar batteries on the Practical Motorhome forum. Best of luck with that - ;-) ;-) For what it’s worth, the 100Ah NordStar-branded battery sold by Alpha Batteries is made by the Polish company ZAP Batteries. http://en.zap.pl/history When marketed under the ZAP Batteries brand-name it would be ‘badged’ as “Carbon EFB” with a “600 05” catalogue number. Details of the Zap Batteries Carbon EFB range are given on the following link http://en.katalog.zap.pl/category/index/17/page/6 and it will be noted that the information in the Alpha Batteries advert repeats the information in the Main features that distinguish the START-STOP Carbon EFB battery group are: section of the Zap Batteries webpage. A visual comparison of the ZAP Batteries 600 05 battery (upper image attached below) and the picture in the Alpha Batteries’ advert for the NordStar 100Ah EFB battery (lower image attached below) indicates that the NordStar battery would almost certainly just be a Zap Batteries 600 05 battery rebadged for the UK market. (It will be noticed that the Alpha Batteries picture has parts of the labelling blanked out where “ZAP” would appear. The Ah figure is also blanked out as the battery pictured in the Alpha Batteries advert is actually a Zap Batteries 585 05 with a 85Ah capacity.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I have no way of knowing for sure but I would guess EFB batteries are no different than regular wet acid with regard to being suitable either for starting or deep discharge so thin/thick plates. I would be hesitant to jump on the EFB wagon knowing that they're most commonly used as starter batteries. I only know of Yuasa and Victron (though try finding that for sale anywhere) being sold as leisure batteries. All others I've found are marketed strictly as starter batteries for high end start/stop vehicles. They may be great as dual purpose but there's currently very little evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageingandrew Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 spirou - 2020-01-21 10:02 AM I have no way of knowing for sure but I would guess EFB batteries are no different than regular wet acid with regard to being suitable either for starting or deep discharge so thin/thick plates. I would be hesitant to jump on the EFB wagon knowing that they're most commonly used as starter batteries. I only know of Yuasa and Victron (though try finding that for sale anywhere) being sold as leisure batteries. All others I've found are marketed strictly as starter batteries for high end start/stop vehicles. They may be great as dual purpose but there's currently very little evidence. Spirou, you are right to be sceptical about the use of EFB batteries as leisure batteries. If you visit the Yuasa L36-EFB product web page on Yuasa.co.uk you will see Yuasa's ‘intended purpose’ statement which I quote ”For use with electrical hook-up with minimal off-grid habitation usage e.g. Lights, TV plus motor mover”. They are very clear - the L36-EFB is suitable for 'minimal off-grid habitation usage', whereas they state that the intended use of the L36-AGM is 'frequently used without electrical hookup'. When a battery manufacturer such as Yuasa states that EFB batteries are only suitable for 'minimal off-grid habitation usage' it defies common sense to recommend them as leisure batteries for off-grid usage without the 'minimal usage' caveat. There is a fairly comprehensive guide to selecting a leisure battery at: https://www.exide.com/eu/sites/default/files/2018-06/Leisure%20-%20Battery%20Solutions.pdf . The document guides the selection of battery according to usage rather than a pointless focus on technology. I would recommend people looking for a replacement leisure battery read this document to help inform them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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