German Drive Home Motorhome Insurance for Private Sales

[fripp]

Has anybody bought a second-hand motorhome from Germany and arranged their own drive home insurance. I am looking into what would be involved in buying a motorhome from a private seller as opposed to a dealer.

 

Is it feasible to arrange for your own insurance and travel plates. I know dealers will do this but what is the process if there is no dealer?

[StuartO]

I looked into this a few years ago - so this information may not be up to date. However my experience was that UK insurers refuse to cover a vehicle on its importing journey until it reaches the UK port - citing some legal restriction they believe they need to follow which I began to suspect was just a laim excuse for being unhelpful, so that avenue became a busted flush. They would provide cover on the VIN number once the vehicle is in UK. The German Export Plates scheme includes third party cover to the port of departure from mainland Europe but comprehensive cover not available. Bundesvan (a UK importing service company, now gone) used to have a Belgian contact which would offer cover for the whole journey but maybe again it was third party only and now (since the proprietors of Bundesvan have retired) maybe to source it. DVLA "advise" importers to have the vehicle transported from the UK port to home (because the obligation to Register kicks in for a UK owner as soon as the vehicle lands) and decline to offer help by issuing any temporary plates - but UK Trade Plates would be OK for this journey if you know a trader who would help you.

 

In sumary there is no easy or bullet-proof way to drive an imported MH home and DVLA insist that it is illegal for a UK citizen buyer to drive an import on German Export Plates once landed in UK - but the chances of being stopped and prosecuted must be very small. In practice you buy from a German dealer who gets you the necesary Export Plates and you arrange UK insurance on the VIN number from the arrival port, then you drive the MH home, carefully, on the German plates. Then you start the process of registering with DVLA which involves proving that there is no VAT due to HMRC and a vehicle inspection. You need a Certificate of Conformity from the manufacturer.

 

It's not easy but it is do-able. I don't know what you do if you buy privately in Germany. Good luck.

[fripp]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I know there has been a lot of discussion about getting fully comp cover for the journey from the dealer to the UK port and this seems to be virtually impossible. For myself I am comfortable with third party only cover till I get home.

 

My query was really about how an individual would go about getting the German third party cover from the time of purchase to either the UK port or to home.

 

As I understand it when you purchase a vehicle from a dealer they will sort this out. But I was going to review the whether to buy from a private seller to open up the number of options I have to buy the model I want. I will be buying second-hand.

 

So has anyone done or know the process to organise the German 'Drive Home' number plates and insurance. Is this a feasible option for an individual or is it a dealer only option?

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2008 thread may be of interest

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Insurance-on-the-continent/12635/

 

The stumbling-block for UK insurance providers is their legal requirement to input vehicle information into the UK’s Motor Insurance Database (MID)

 

https://www.mib.org.uk/managing-insurance-data/the-motor-insurance-database-mid/

 

and this won’t be practicable until a vehicle is UK-registered and a ‘proper’ UK registration number has been assigned to it.

 

Before the MID, (and seemingly legally) a UK insurance provider could offer cover within the UK based on the VIN-number of a motorhome being imported, but I believe that’s no longer legally acceptable. To the best of my knowledge, the 3rd-party cover provided with Germany-obtained ‘export’ registration plates does not cease at "the port of departure from mainland Europe” but will stop when the policy’s expiry date is reached. I never researched how Bundesvan dealt with insurance, but their trader status set them apart from ‘private’ motorhome importers. Some people, having bought motorhomes from Continental-European dealerships have driven them back to the UK on trade plates. This seems highly dubious to me (as does a UK motor trader providing trade plates to someone not working for the trader) but - as far as I’m aware - nobody using this ploy has had an accident or being prosecuted that might have tested the method’s legal validity.

 

If a motorhome is bought abroad by a private individual to be imported to the UK and is driven to the UK by the owner (rather than have the motorhome transported to the UK by a specialist company) somewhere down the line there’s going to be a greater or lesser legal conflict. Whether such risks are worth taking is up to the buyer.

[Keithl]

One part of the problem with German export plates is that the vehicle will still technically be registered in Germany and as such you will not be allowed to drive it on UK roads as the law expressly forbids a UK resident from driving any foreign registered vehicle.

We used to regularly have foreign registered vehicles at work and always had to put trade plates on them to use on public roads.

 

So your only option will be to obtain UK trade plates to drive from the port of entry or get it transported.

 

Keith.

 

Edit to add: OR get a German resident to drive to your destination in the UK.

[teccer1234]

Keithl - 2020-08-13 9:24 AM

.

 

Edit to add: OR get a German resident to drive to your destination in the UK.

 

I bought mine off a dealer but was not happy having to drive it to the port third party so the dealer drove it to the port from dusseldorf, free, and I had prearranged with my UK insurers to have it uk insured that day so that I could drive it home

[witzend]

You'll need to research this but when working for a garage I was insured in what ever I drove in connection with their business. Would a garage's traders policy cover what you require someone might like a weekend jolly driving it home with You

[Brian Kirby]

This doesn't seem to have been mentioned so far, but in Germany the registration plate on the vehicle "belongs" to the vehicle owner, and not to the vehicle. At the point of sale, vehicles in Germany will carry no registration plate, be they new or used. If the buyer were German, s/he would merely arrive with their own reg. plates, and attach these to the vehicle. I assume the German seller will be unaware that more or less the rest of the world registers the vehicle. :-) Legal ownership of the vehicle in Germany is confirmed via a separate document.

 

So, it seems your options, at least as I understand them, are;

1) To get the vehicle transported to your home, or

2) Possibly, to make an arrangement with a German dealer to register and issue German export plates in your name. Since the plates are for export, logically, the insurance will be valid within the EU (so should still cover UK) but for a stated period only. However, one might ask what incentive a dealer would have to do this! (This, I understand, is what Bundesvan did. But their vehicles were sourced from dealers, and Bundesvan had additional insurance cover for the vehicle itself as goods in transit. I'm unaware whether they ever brought vehicles in from private buyers.)

3) To pay a specialist intermediary (from Germany or UK) to import and register the vehicle, and deliver it to your home. For example, https://mycarimport.co.uk/

4) If you know, or can find, someone in the UK who has trade plates and suitable insurance, see if they might be willing to add you as one of their authorised drivers.

 

Unless you are already a motor trader you will not be able to obtain trade plates in your own name. Under recent legislation, where trade plates are displayed on a vehicle the vehicle registration plates must also be visible, which appears to take us back to 2) above.

[Keithl]

Brian Kirby - 2020-08-13 11:58 AM

So, it seems your options, at least as I understand them, are;

1) To get the vehicle transported to your home, or

2) Possibly, to make an arrangement with a German dealer to register and issue German export plates in your name. Since the plates are for export, logically, the insurance will be valid within the EU (so should still cover UK) but for a stated period only. However, one might ask what incentive a dealer would have to do this! (This, I understand, is what Bundesvan did. But their vehicles were sourced from dealers, and Bundesvan had additional insurance cover for the vehicle itself as goods in transit. I'm unaware whether they ever brought vehicles in from private buyers.)

3) To pay a specialist intermediary (from Germany or UK) to import and register the vehicle, and deliver it to your home. For example, https://mycarimport.co.uk/

4) If you know, or can find, someone in the UK who has trade plates and suitable insurance, see if they might be willing to add you as one of their authorised drivers.

 

Unless you are already a motor trader you will not be able to obtain trade plates in your own name. Under recent legislation, where trade plates are displayed on a vehicle the vehicle registration plates must also be visible, which appears to take us back to 2) above.

 

But if following option 2 you would then have to follow option 4 in the UK as it is not legal for a UK resident to drive any vehicle on foreign plates.

 

And another question for Robert (Fripp), what age of vehicle are you looking at? If over three years old it would require a UK MOT before being registered and cannot be driven on UK roads EVEN with trade plates, unless on its way to or from a pre-booked test.

 

Just another complication for you to consider!

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

I notice that buying a car from a private individual in Germany and then exporting it to the UK was discussed on this 2016 Pistonheads forum thread.

 

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1589000

 

I do recall that, when a bought a Hobby motorhome from a German dealership in 2005, three visits were needed to obtain temporary German registration and export registration-plates. The 1st visit was to a fairly local ‘hut’ where the temporary registration number was assigned to the vehicle: the 2nd visit was to a registration office in a town a few miles away where the motorhome was physically inspected to confirm that it conformed to its documentation and the paperwork produced by the the guy at the ‘hut’: the 3rd visit was back to the ‘hut’ to have the paperwork issued by the registration office checked and the export plates made up. The German dealer drove the vehicle until the plates had been fitted as, until then, I was not authorised to drive it. (My knowledge of German is minimal and so is the likelihood that I would have been able to complete the process I’ve just described on my own with no German-fluent mentor to assist.)

 

I still have the late-Mel Eastburn’s 2004 general guide to buying a motorhome in Continental Europe, plus his specific “Buying a motorhome in Germany” crib-sheet. The Pound was very strong against the the Euro back then, so there was considerable incentive to buy a motorhome abroad if one was happy with LHD and appreciated the cons of doing so as well as the pros. (Mel only covered buying from a dealer and did not advise on buying from a private individual.)

 

As Keithl has highlighted in his posting of 13 August 2020 9:24 AM above, it is forbidden for a UK resident to drive in the UK a foreign-registered vehicle. Doing so was a risk I was prepared to take, but I was well aware that this conflicted with UK regulations. The issue is touched on in the DVLA’s INF106 document

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/860938/inf106-how-to-import-a-vehicle-into-the-united-kingdom.pdf

 

To avoid difficulties, we advise you to:

- transport, rather than drive, your vehicle from the port to your home or its first destination

- keep the vehicle off the road until it has been properly registered, taxed and insured.

 

There’s a thread on the Practical Caravan forum headed “Importing a Motorhome from the EU ia piece of cake” that may be of interest (or perhaps amuse).

 

https://forums.practicalcaravan.com/threads/importing-a-motorhome-from-the-eu-is-a-piece-of-cake.60574/

[Keithl]

And to add the final complication, driving a vehicle without the appropriate license (ie German licence for German plates) means the vehicle is then uninsured and WILL be seized! With a recent change in the law the police are not allowed to let a vehicle proceed unless it can be proved insurance is in place, no 'producer' ticket is allowed for insurance.

 

You then have 14 days to prove insurance was in place or the vehicle will be destroyed, not sold but destroyed!

 

In my books that is a risk not worth taking.

 

Keith.

[fripp]

Thanks for all of the constructive feedback. To add to this thread with what I have found since the original post.

 

It looks like you can apply for an purchase German Export Plates which come with insurance. This is what the dealer will provide for you, if bought from a dealer. The process is defined and it would seem that in Germany most of the offices that you need to get the insurance and plates are usually situated near each other, as in Germany getting new registration plates each year is the norm. But it does look to involve a number of steps which I think would prove difficult without a good command of German, or even better the help of a German national. See the links below for further details if anybody else find this thread needs some help.

 

https://www.service-bw.de/en/web/guest/leistung/-/sbw/Applying+for+temporary+vehicle+registration-399-leistung-0

 

http://www.richterimpex.com/temporary-plates.html

 

https://gallivant.wemarsh.com/german-export-plates/

 

[Brian Kirby]

Keithl - 2020-08-13 2:37 PM

 

And to add the final complication, driving a vehicle without the appropriate license (ie German licence for German plates) means the vehicle is then uninsured and WILL be seized! With a recent change in the law the police are not allowed to let a vehicle proceed unless it can be proved insurance is in place, no 'producer' ticket is allowed for insurance.

 

You then have 14 days to prove insurance was in place or the vehicle will be destroyed, not sold but destroyed!

 

In my books that is a risk not worth taking.

 

Keith.

From Derek's link above "a UK resident must not drive a vehicle displaying foreign registration number plates

in the UK."

Are we quite sure all the above is true? :-) What would be the case if a UK driving licence holder, who is also a UK resident, entered the UK driving a car hired from across the Channel? The vehicle would be insured for use within the EU. It would be registered outside the UK. It could be legally driven outside the UK on a UK driving licence.

I drove our first van back to our home from the Calais docks on French temporary export plates.

Bundesvan delivered the next three vans on German export plates, involving driving several hundred miles on UK roads from port to Bundesvan and then to me. I appreciate what the booklet says, but I can't understand the logic.

So, to ask the immortal question, :-) does anyone know what part of which Act of Parliament, or UK Regulation, specifically bans this? I couldn't find anything in a quick look at the Construction and Use regs.

[Keithl]

Brian Kirby - 2020-08-13 6:46 PM

From Derek's link above "a UK resident must not drive a vehicle displaying foreign registration number plates

in the UK."

Are we quite sure all the above is true?

 

The best I can find is this DVLA leaflet...

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/860938/inf106-how-to-import-a-vehicle-into-the-united-kingdom.pdf

 

which states on page 3

 

"A UK resident must not drive a vehicle displaying foreign registration number plates in the UK"

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-08-13 6:46 PM

What would be the case if a UK driving licence holder, who is also a UK resident, entered the UK driving a car hired from across the Channel?

 

Hired cars are exempt from the restriction.

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

It has been argued here in the past that the 'guidance’in the DVLA’s INF106 leaflet is somehow advisory-only, and that there is no legal imperative that "A UK resident must not drive a vehicle displaying foreign registration number plates in the UK”, but I can’t say I’ve ever been convinced.

 

I just assumed, in 2005, when I was driving my imported motorhome the 130 miles from Portsmouth to my home, that I was breaking UK law but - as hundreds of motorhome 'self importers’ had done this previously and (apparently) never been caught or prosecuted - the risk seemed very small.

 

It came up in 2018 here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Drive-Home-Insurance-/43525/

[Brian Kirby]

Keithl - 2020-08-13 8:30 PM

Brian Kirby - 2020-08-13 6:46 PM

From Derek's link above "a UK resident must not drive a vehicle displaying foreign registration number plates

in the UK."

Are we quite sure all the above is true?

The best I can find is this DVLA leaflet...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/860938/inf106-how-to-import-a-vehicle-into-the-united-kingdom.pdf

which states on page 3

"A UK resident must not drive a vehicle displaying foreign registration number plates in the UK"

Brian Kirby - 2020-08-13 6:46 PM

What would be the case if a UK driving licence holder, who is also a UK resident, entered the UK driving a car hired from across the Channel?

Hired cars are exempt from the restriction.

Keith.

Yes, as I discovered a bit later Keith, along with a few other exceptions.

 

But, I've not seen the source documents, which leaves us without the actual authority for the prohibitions - just people reiterating them.

 

There is also an Honest John piece from Sept 2008, in which he contacted DVLA over a statement they had on their website regarding this prohibition, in which they conceded that their statement at the time was inaccurate in the following words 'In the circumstances where a UK resident is using an EU registered vehicle in the UK on a temporary basis, on a visit from their holiday home, for example, they are entitled to use the vehicle when visiting the UK. We will be looking to amend the wording on the website to ensure this information is correctly reflected.'

 

That is of course a while back, but that word "entitled" caught my eye. Entitled by what,where? DVLA don't make the rules, they just administer them! :-) This has no doubt now been overtaken since by revisions, but I'd still like to get to the source, if anyone knows what it is. You know: dog: bone?

 

I'm just a wee bit suspicious that there may be other exceptions that, for whatever reason, DVLA (or others) don't want widely publicised. After all, someone must know where it's all spelled out, so why no say?

[Keithl]

Brian,

 

Why not email DVLA and ask them for the source of their statement?

 

Keith.

[fripp]

Does this help

 

https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-consommateurs/Etudes_ECC/Cross_Border_car_purchase/PDF_EN/JOINT-PROJECT_AUTO_REPORT_europe.pdf

 

Although what will apply after Brexit maybe less clear.

[Keithl]

The best info I can find is that the offence is 'Driving an unlicensed vehicle' as the vehicle will not be registered/taxed in the UK.

 

A foreigner driving a foreign registered vehicle is exempt from the offence as the vehicle is deemed to be a temporary import.

 

Keith.

[teccer1234]

witzend - 2020-08-13 10:37 AM

 

You'll need to research this but when working for a garage I was insured in what ever I drove in connection with their business. Would a garage's traders policy cover what you require someone might like a weekend jolly driving it home with You

 

in my case the dealer was going to get one of his workers to drive the van to the port but realised that he didn't have a HGV licence so the dealer himself drove it for me.

[fripp]

In the PDF I submitted previously it states.

 

Germany

Red export plates(“Ausfuhrkennzeichen”) can be obtained at the local registration offices(Kfz-Zulassungsstellen).Non German residents must name a representative who livesin the municipality in which they apply for the export plates. Thisrepresentative must be present when applying. It might be easier to let the seller handle this.

Consumers should be aware that yellow short-term plates (“Kurzeitkennzeichen”) are not meant for use on exported cars and might not be accepted in other countries.

Approx. price: EUR 30-35 for registration + EUR 10-15 for plates, depending on the length of the plates’ validity

Timeframe: issued immediately

Validity: 14 days-1 year

Export plates can be used outside Germany.

Short time transit plates are primarily for use in Germany. Other countries might not accept them.

To import a car from another country, foreign export plates are needed. Transit plates are accepted as long as they are official plates from an EU Member State which are not limited for use on the territory of that State and the consumer has insurance.

 

It would seem their recommendation to ask for Export Plates to be provided as part of the sale, whether that be dealer or private would be the best option. If acceptable to the seller?

[Keithl]

Fripp,

 

But unfortunately the section against the UK then quotes about importing a vehicle:

 

"If the car has non-UK number plates and the consumer is stopped by police, he/she must show that the car can be used in the UK without being taxed and registered there."

 

The reason of driving from port to home after import is not a valid reason for driving a UK unlicensed vehicle.

 

So the UK legislation about a UK resident driving a non-UK registered vehicle overrules the German statement and it is still not legal to drive the German registered vehicle in the UK.

 

Keith.

[fripp]

Keithl - 2020-08-14 4:52 PM

 

Fripp,

 

But unfortunately the section against the UK then quotes about importing a vehicle:

 

"If the car has non-UK number plates and the consumer is stopped by police, he/she must show that the car can be used in the UK without being taxed and registered there."

 

The reason of driving from port to home after import is not a valid reason for driving a UK unlicensed vehicle.

 

So the UK legislation about a UK resident driving a non-UK registered vehicle overrules the German statement and it is still not legal to drive the German registered vehicle in the UK.

 

Keith.

 

But it also states

 

"The consumer can use export plates, which normally have a validity of between 9 days and 3 months, for the entire journey to the place of registration."

 

And with the UK section

 

"Transit plates of other Member States are recognised but cars have to be registered in the UK within 6 months of the date of import.

"

 

Driving from the purchase location to the new registration location would seem to be a very valid reason when importing a vehicle.

[Brian Kirby]

Keithl - 2020-08-14 9:34 AM

Brian,

Why not email DVLA and ask them for the source of their statement?

Keith.

'Cos they say they aren't responding to e-mail queries, and have closed both their webchat and telephone enquiry contact facilities! All due to Covid. :-D

[Driventemple]

A few years ago I looked into importing from Germany and the insurance was the biggest stumbling block.

A member of one of the Forums i was on said his technique was to buy a 'cherished plate' and insure that registration, then fit that at the dealer to then drive home?

Sounded really dodgy to me... :-(