Have refillable bottles/tanks had their day?

[yeti]

Went to local Calor depot the other day and they have stopped selling LPG from the pump seems ALL their depots are doing like wise-does these mean a dodgy future for Autogas and Gaslow installed vehicles and what about vehicles powered by LPG?

We have discussed Morrisons attitude towards filling up, at the moment some Shell stations still have their LPG pumps. Anyone care to enlighten me has refillable gas tanks,including bottles had their day?

BTW I no longer can lift bottles up into the van and refillable is my saviour,I have had this system in nearly all my vehicles from a tank to Gaslow.

[lancepar]

Earlier in the year my local Autogas seller, Lister Gases closed the outlet for all gases at Cradley Heath but it has only been a couple of months or so that B'ham Autogas has opened up for business on the same site.

 

54p/litre.

 

No good for you though Will.

 

 

 

B-)

[mgnbuk]

I don't think so - no problems in West Yorks with supply. I usually fill up at Morrisons & have never had problems doing so. All the filling stations I used to use when I last ran an LPG converted car 3 years ago are still operating. LPG being widely used by taxi & private hire companies around here. There are other bulk gas suppliers than Calor - one being 400 yards down the road from Emmbee Motorhomes in Bury.

 

Just returned from a fortnight in Germany & LPG widely available there, as it appeared to be while transiting through Holland.

 

I should note that I had the external fill point fitted to the motorhome skirt on all the vans I have had the Gaslow cylinder installed on (3 to date, over a 5 1/2 year period), not on the the gas locker door or inside the gas locker - maybe that affects Morrrison's attitude towards me regarding fill-ups there ?

 

Nigel B

[Tracker]

If motorhome use Autogas is becoming harder to get in the UK all the more reason to leave France with a full tank of gas as well as diesel - we always used to.

 

Calor may well have 'operational' reasons for making gas less easy to obtain but it always did surprise me for a company not best known for being helpful that they would sell it 'loose' anyway in direct competition with their own bottled gas?

[paulmold]

It has always puzzled me as to why so few Calor depots actually sell Autogas. Also why so few Shell garages sell it. Afterall, Autogas was a joint venture between those two companies so why did they not expand their own distribution of their own product.

[StuartO]

There is no doubt that filling up refillable bottles is becoming more difficult (as some petrol stations refuse to allow it and Calor Depots have also chosen to refuse access) but there is no legal obstacle, it's simply that (in the case of Calor) they seems to have chosen to stop allowing the use of refillables, citing safety concernsbut in reality for commercial reasons - they trade in rental bottles and they are exploiting their near-monopoly position.

Fortunately there are still enough autogas sellers who are willing to allow motorhomes to fill refillables across UK for it still to be viable to use them and in mainland Europe there are still lots and lots of them.  Refillables are very much a favoured approach for motohomers, on convenience as well as economy grounds.

[Derek Uzzell]

The Wikipedia “Autogas” entry says

 

"According to the LPG trade association in the UK there are about 1500 refuelling stations that cater for the 160,000 LPG powered vehicles on UK roads. This represents less than 1% of vehicles. The only Government incentive to use LPG is the lower road fuel tax applied to LPG compared to petrol. As of January 2012, the saving of about 60 pence per litre is the highest it has ever been and that combined with conversion prices being an historic low should result in an increase in LPG conversions. Technology has reached the point where almost all conversions are 'Sequential Vapour Injection', and in the UK there is a large number of kits better source needed] with various price and quality ranges to choose from, resulting in a very competitive market.”

 

This information is (probably) as-of-2012, but this webpage

 

https://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg/where-can-i-purchase-fuel/

 

still states that "There are over 1400 outlets selling autogas across the UK.”

 

I don’t know which Calor Centres had an autogas pump available to the public, but I suspect not that many UK-wide. It may well be that Calor has decided to no longer offer that facility, but it still appears on the Bristol Calor Centre entry.

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/help-and-advice/calor-stockists-and-dealers/calor-centres/calor-stockists-south-west-and-wales/bristol-calor-centre

 

I don’t envisage brand-new autogas refuelling stations being set up in the UK, but, as long as there are sufficient LPG-fuelled vehicles to make it financially worthwhile to maintain existing installations, there’s no obvious reason why autogas should become generally difficult to obtain in the short-term future. And, as long as autogas remains generally available in the UK, there should be no great difficulty refilling motorhome LPG bottles/tanks.

 

(Within 10 miles of where I live there are five LPG refuelling stations that I’m aware of and all of these have been in operation for years.)

[Alanb]

If you look at the filllpg.co.uk website, which from my observations on trips to northern Scotland, and locally, seems to be more accurate than eurolpg, it paints a rather grim picture of sites where lpg is currently unavailable.

 

Alan

[paul2]

Alanb - 2018-10-12 2:20 PM

 

If you look at the filllpg.co.uk website, which from my observations on trips to northern Scotland, and locally, seems to be more accurate than eurolpg, it paints a rather grim picture of sites where lpg is currently unavailable.

 

Alan

 

Hi

i've looked at filllpg.co.uk. and that is the most accurate website i have seen for near me around Worcester. Calor Worcester moved it's depot a few weeks ogo and site lists the old depot but says lpg not available.

Autogas was not available at the new depot two weeks ogo so no need to add that.

 

Website now book marked ,

Thankyou

Paul

[Airstream]

There are no issues re autogas/lpg in my area, local depot Harris Gas Northwich retails bottles, has lpg pump for self fill

I fill the car at Harris or wherever convenient as there are several pumps on the east lancs road Morrisons at Eccles or Leigh etc

Motorway services are another supplier I use as needed

As for Calor they supply Morrisons in the North West and are a major part of Autogas

 

"Autogas Limited, a joint venture between Shell and Calor, has been established since 2000. We are the leading retailer of automotive LPG in the UK. You will see us on over 220 forecourts nationwide."

 

LPG fueled taxis are huge in Birmongham, a vist to the Star City lpg site to fill up we were in a long queue behind what looked like a motorway jam as the local taxi drivers filled up and the adjacent autogas converter was doing great business fitting lpg kits to mainly Toyota saloons

 

So all good here, however only one lpg pump in the Isle of Man and its about 40p litre above UK mainland price

 

Ray

 

 

 

[weldted]

Calor gas Lee Mill near Plymouth has stopped selling Autogas, She'll garage at Carkeel roundabout has stopped selling it. So nearest to Plymouth is either Trago Mills on A38 near Bovey Tracey, or Trulefoot roundabout on A38 6 miles east of Liskeard.

[StuartO]

As the number of autogas outlets shrinks, there would be nothing to stop motorhome and/or caravan dealers from installing LPG pumps - and if they supplied only to motorhomes and caravans, i.e. LPG for habitation rather than propulsion purposes, they could sell the LPG much cheaper (or make more profit) because road fuel taxes and the higher rate of VAT would not apply.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

weldted - 2018-10-13 10:39 PM

 

Calor gas Lee Mill near Plymouth has stopped selling Autogas, She'll garage at Carkeel roundabout has stopped selling it. So nearest to Plymouth is either Trago Mills on A38 near Bovey Tracey, or Trulefoot roundabout on A38 6 miles east of Liskeard.

 

The filllpg map still shows autogas being available at Shell Caradon at Saltash, as does the Shell Caradon website

 

https://find.shell.com/gb/fuel/10019078-shell-caradon

 

It’s certainly the case that there have been substantial areas of the UK where autogas availability has always been low (or even non-existent) and it’s reasonable to assume that the number of autogas outlets UK-wide is reducing as the attraction of autogas-fuelled vehicles lessens and electricity-fuelled vehicles become more commonplace.

 

But because Calor may decide that its Centres should no longer offer ‘pumped’ LPG, or Morrisons bans motorhome LPG refilling, hardly means that motorcaravanners will find it incredibly difficult in the near future to refill their Gaslow bottles or LPG tanks. 10 years on, maybe, but within the next couple of years, no chance.

 

[weldted]

Went to Shell cars don yesterday informed they will no longer sell autogas. None in Plymouth nearest are She'll Trulefoot roundabout A38 or Trago mills on A38 near Bovey Tracy

[peedee]

StuartO - 2018-10-14 7:53 AMAs the number of autogas outlets shrinks, there would be nothing to stop motorhome and/or caravan dealers from installing LPG pumps - and if they supplied only to motorhomes and caravans, i.e. LPG for habitation rather than propulsion purposes, they could sell the LPG much cheaper (or make more profit) because road fuel taxes and the higher rate of VAT would not apply.

I cannot see that happening and I think we are in for a slow decline in availability. Those with a Country Wide depot nearby should be ok for the future but some of us with no bulk supplier nearby are either going to have to travel further afield to get refils or go back to buying bottled gas.peedee

[RubyExsis]

Seems a real blow for the ever increasing PVC market with little storage and relatively small fitted under slung LPG tanks.

 

[StuartO]

peedee - 2018-10-15 7:42 AM

StuartO - 2018-10-14 7:53 AMAs the number of autogas outlets shrinks, there would be nothing to stop motorhome and/or caravan dealers from installing LPG pumps - and if they supplied only to motorhomes and caravans, i.e. LPG for habitation rather than propulsion purposes, they could sell the LPG much cheaper (or make more profit) because road fuel taxes and the higher rate of VAT would not apply.

I cannot see that happening and I think we are in for a slow decline in availability. Those with a Country Wide depot nearby should be ok for the future but some of us with no bulk supplier nearby are either going to have to travel further afield to get refils or go back to buying bottled gas.peedee

Motorhomes are of course intended for travelling, so those of us who have large underslung tanks or a couple of 11kg refillables sould be able to cope by refilling where the oppoommrtunity still arises but this may not continue to be viable for those who carry only one 6kg refillable, for whom available autogasstatipns may be too far apart. Hopefully the market will respond if a vacuum does  develop. 

[Derek Uzzell]

There’s a useful gas-tanks/refillable-bottles article here

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/practical-advice/motorhome-advice-gas-tanks-or-refillable-cylinders

 

Although some motorhome manufacturers have decided to dispense with the traditional gas-locker and fit instead a fixed tank to power habitation appliances fuelled by LPG, if obtaining LPG becomes really difficult in future (and I’m unconvinced there’s any real likelihood of that happening soon) there’s nothing to stop motorhome designers from moving away from gas in order to limit the amount that needs to be carried, or to increase the interval between refills, or even to dispense with gas altogether.

 

For example, Truma offers the Combi D6 “E” that’s comparable with the Combi 6 “E” heater but runs off diesel + 230V instead of LPG + 230V. Webasto markets a diesel-fuelled hob and compressor fridges in motorhomes are not that unusual. In fact it’s perfectly practicable nowadays to have a versatile gas-free motorhome provided that it’s properly designed and sensibly used.

 

https://murviclub.org.uk/w/gas-free-morello/

[Reburner]

This topic is of particular interest to me as I'm taking delivery of a new motorhome early next year. I plan on doing a lot of European touring.

What advice would you give in my position? Go fully refillable or one refillable and one calor or no refillable at all?

[peterjl]

Hi.

If you are going to be mainly in Europe forget calor cos that’s Uk only.

LPG is easy in most of Europe so I would suggest refillable.

 

Remember gas low tanks need to be checked/replaced after 15years.

 

Peter

[Mickt]

I have a 11k Gaslow and 6k calor , I find this ok for UK and touring europ

[Den]

Called into the new Worcester Calor gas depot and they have stopped doing Auto gas.

[spospe]

peterjl - 2018-11-06 6:38 PM

 

Remember gas low tanks need to be checked/replaced after 15years.

 

Peter

 

According to Gas-IT, privately owned tanks do not need replacing.

 

see: http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t27991-gas-tank-re-certfication-10-years-on

 

The entry near the end by Paulmold has the relevant quote.

[peterjl]

 

Hi

 

For people like me with the original gas low tanks the website says they must be changed after 15 years. See link below

 

https://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Categories/Gaslow_Refillables

 

Peter

[Derek Uzzell]

spospe - 2018-11-06 9:28 PM

 

peterjl - 2018-11-06 6:38 PM

 

Remember gas low tanks need to be checked/replaced after 15years.

 

Peter

 

According to Gas-IT, privately owned tanks do not need replacing.

 

see: http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t27991-gas-tank-re-certfication-10-years-on

 

The entry near the end by Paulmold has the relevant quote.

 

Recertification of Gaslow refillable containers was discussed in this 2017 forum thread (see embedded links to earlier threads)

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Replacing-Gaslow-cylinders/47364/

 

and Gaslow’s current guidance regarding their “Direct Fill” canisters is here

 

https://tinyurl.com/y893xuy8

 

The ASOF thread includes the following link to a GAS IT webpage

 

https://www.gasit.co.uk/support/knowledgebase.php?article=84

 

It may be the case that GAS IT’s statement is correct that "the legal requirements for private owners currently is that you do not need to have the gas tank recertified or replaced after 10 years” (though this appears to conflict with Gaslow’s and Safefill’s advice as far as user-refillable bottles are concerned) but recertification of ‘privately owned’ gas-bottles/tanks is, in reality, a non-starter.

 

Either GAS IT’s statement is correct or not. If correct, then user-refillable bottles (and presumably tanks too) have an open-ended lifespan. If incorrect then, when a bottle’s/tank’s ‘recertification date’ is reached, the bottle/tank will need to be replaced.

 

Options for obtaining gas outside the UK are explained here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/GAS-IN-EUROPE/48534/

 

(Based on earlier forum comments, the Calor Centre at Worcester ceased selling LPG (Autogas) some while ago. Calor’s website https://www.calor.co.uk/calor-centres indicates if a Centre offers Autogas (Worcester- No, Bristol - Yes) though it’s anybody’s guess whether the information is up to date.)