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Help Engine won't start!!
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userMickydripin
Posted: 19 January 2020 1:42 PM
Subject: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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Hi can anybody help,
My brother parked up his 2012 Fiat 2.3 Swift motorhome a couple of days ago, just before he stopped the ABS light came on and the handbrake light would not go off.
Not thinking anything he left it and today he went to it and it would not start.
He checked all the fuses plus the ABS fuse with no luck and he was ready to get off to Spain.
any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike.
userIMP
Posted: 19 January 2020 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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When you say that the engine will not start - does this mean:-

The engine it is turning over and not firing up?

Engine not turning over, just a"clunk"
userDeneb
Posted: 19 January 2020 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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The ABS warning light can illuminate if the vehicle battery is in poor condition, so if the current starting problem is symptomatic of a flat battery that may well be the cause.

Happened to my wife's Hyundai last year. ABS warning light illuminated as she was driving home. The car would still start, although it was turning over more slowly than normal. I checked for fault codes and the only one present was for low voltage at the ABS ECU. Fitted a new battery, cleared the DTC and all back to normal.
userMickydripin
Posted: 19 January 2020 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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Engine turning over no problem just not starting
userPaul-
Posted: 20 January 2020 1:22 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Is in a breakdown service as they will be able to offer assistance
usersnail
Posted: 20 January 2020 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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Hi micky, I would suggest that you join the fiat forum it's free to join just have to register, they will be more help with base vehicle faults, it's for all fiats so you have to get to the ducato section and post in that bit
They have been helpful to me
usereuroserv
Posted: 20 January 2020 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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Hi,

The first thing to check is that there is fuel in the tank and if it is getting to the injectors. A diagnostic device can read the fuel pressure while the engine is cranking. If the fuel pressure is not getting to around 300 bar the ECU will not allow it to start. The most likely reasons for a lack of fuel pressure are a faulty pressure sensor on the fuel rail or one or more injectors are leaking excessively and the pressure is unable to build up. The latter is normally preceded by a few problems with starting taking too long. Is the electric fuel pump in the top of the fuel tank (under the cab floor) running? It should run for about 20 seconds after the ignition is switched on if the engine does not start; otherwise it will continue.

The crankshaft sensor and camshaft sensor have to be happy with things before the vehicle will be allowed to start, so they are the next items to check if there is fuel pressure.
If they are OK the next most likely areas to check are the wiring loom; particularly the bunch that exits the fuse box under the bonnet and heads for the dashboard. This requires the removal of the nearside headlamp for access.

Finding faults like this can get expensive at a garage because they can take a lot of time. Many of the potential faults above can be processed quite quickly with the correct diagnostic tools and someone who is experienced in using them but checking wiring is laborious. Sometimes you find it straight away and other times is takes many hours. There is a possibility that there are corroded wires around the blue connector under the fusebox in the engine bay. This is known as 'rusty junction' by many in the know but the fault described does not quite fit. It does not sound like an engine loom fault at all but it is not impossible.

N
userAndy&Lou
Posted: 21 January 2020 1:24 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Did this get resolved?
When we have trouble with the engine not starting it Is usually the immobiliser.
userJohn52
Posted: 21 January 2020 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Does the padlock light on the dashboard go out.
It won't fire up if the padlock light is on.
userMickydripin
Posted: 25 January 2020 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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Problem not resolved yet vehicle taken in to garage on 22 Jan they can not find it yet.
Also have tried the Fiat forum and you need a degree to trawl through that so no luck there.
we have gone through earth wires, changed the ring around the ignition, checked with the Cobra alarm code changed the block on the ABS as the light would not go off, Fully charged the battery. and lots of other things.
Now it is up to the garage


Mike.
useronecal
Posted: 26 January 2020 12:33 AM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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A good Tech should have found the problem much sooner. They may need to go over their basic checks again example fuel pressure and all sensors and connections, and of course that immobilser.
Paying attention to all grounds, also inspecting for water damage within the connection under the fusebox and all associated wiring loom and fuses, (none loose or corroded) or missing.
Have them do a recheck of the following pins within the connector to the ABS module block

Pins 2 is for electronics
Pin 3 is for the solenoids
Pin 18 is ignition supply
Make sure to check the ground pins also each time of test
Sorry without actually seeing the van and the diagonistic print out it it's difficult so pin point exactly a remedy to your problem, but this is one I have come up against before that caused similiar problems to yours
Hope you get it sorted, .sometimes it can even be a very simple fault,Keep us all posted.

Edited by onecal 2020-01-26 12:46 AM
userMickydripin
Posted: 28 January 2020 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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Hope you get it sorted, .sometimes it can even be a very simple fault,Keep us all posted.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will do thanks to all posters for your help
Mike.
userMickydripin
Posted: 21 March 2020 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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This is an update on why the vehicle did not start.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The motorhome is finally back since January the 19th it went to one garage and they could not find the problem then took it to Sherwood's in Etruria Stoke and it took them eight hours to find the problem with there diagnostics computer there was a damaged wire in the main loom and got a nice bill of £1300. OUCH!!
As Brian once said to me! if you have a motorhome you need a large wad in your back pocket to keep it going.

Mike.
userBlackers62
Posted: 7 January 2021 8:06 AM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Hi Mike, glad the Motorhome is now ok.
Could I ask she’d the damaged wire was in the wiring loom? Was it somewhere obvious I.e rubbing against the chasis, water damage etc?
I know your original post was a year ago but any addition info. Would still be valid and very helpful, thanks
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 7 January 2021 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Paul.

Just to say that Mike’s most recent forum logon was on 21 November 2020 - so you may not get a response.
userKeithl
Posted: 7 January 2021 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-07 8:38 AM

Just to say that Mike’s most recent forum logon was on 21 November 2020 - so you may not get a response.

But he has posted an email address in his profile so may respond if you email him.

Keith.
userBlackers62
Posted: 7 January 2021 1:51 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-07 8:38 AM

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Paul.

Just to say that Mike’s most recent forum logon was on 21 November 2020 - so you may not get a response.

Thanks Derek, I have sent Mike an email, cheers
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 7 January 2021 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Mike registered on these forums in 2008. It’s usually advised (for personal privacy and anti-spam reasons) that participants do not provide an email address unless they REALLY want to be contacted in that way (or, if they do provide an address, that it’s a ‘disposable' one) so you might find that the email address on Mike’s forum Profile is defunct. Worth a try though...
userMickydripin
Posted: 15 January 2021 10:05 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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Hi everyone thanks for all your help.
I am sorry that I did not get back to you to let you know what the exact problem was but with covid and my memory i did not inform you of the problem.
Today the 15/01/21 I have just found out myself as the cause was not on the bill so I had to do some digging and
I had to contact Sherwoods Truck and Van in Stoke-on-Trent as they did not put on the receipt what the exact problem was.
I spoke to a very nice man at Sherwoods and he looked through there records from last year and got back to me very quickly and this is there answer I hope that it may be of some use to someone.
There were no pictures for this job but it was a broken wire between the BCM and the ABS ECU they removed the headlights and the wipers and found the wiring broken next to the wiper linkage.
How this happened we do not know maybe someone else on this forum might be able to elaborate more as I do not know what the BCM is there must be someone more technical than me that can explain, So explain away guys.
The first garage that it was towed to had it for almost three months and then it was towed to Sherwood's (a fiat dealer) the bill between them was around £1300 so if you have this sort of problem go to the professionals in the first place it still will not be cheep but you will get the job done.
Many thanks to Sherwood's Truck and Van

Edited by Mickydripin 2021-01-15 10:07 PM
userrayc
Posted: 16 January 2021 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Mickydripin - 2021-01-15 10:05 PM

How this happened we do not know maybe someone else on this forum might be able to elaborate more as I do not know what the BCM is there must be someone more technical than me that can explain, So explain away guys.

The BCM is the Body Control Module and and contains the firmware and hardware which controls the functions such as road lighting, wipers, etc etc. The sidelights for example do not have fuses in the fuse box but have resettable ones within the BCM. On the Ducato it is fitted to the rear of the cab fuse box. Safe to say that the BCM is critical to the operation of the vehicle and can be expensive to replace if faulty.
They are specific to the vehicle, a replacement must be exactly the same build as the one being replaced e.g. the DLR's built into my headlights are controlled by it as are the front fog lights. It is the reason that factory fitted front fog lights may be impossible to retrofit. An example is shown in the ebay link https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-RELAY-FIAT-DUCATO-PEUGEOT-BOXER-BODY-CONTROL-UNIT-ECU-1358239080/164638101901?hash=item265532118d:g:2KcAAOSweVxf~D7O
userrayc
Posted: 16 January 2021 10:45 AM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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PS the terms BCM ,Body Control Unit BCU and simply Body Computer are used by different manufacturers and users but mean the same thing.
userSteve928
Posted: 16 January 2021 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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rayc - 2021-01-16 10:45 AM

PS the terms BCM ,Body Control Unit BCU and simply Body Computer are used by different manufacturers and users but mean the same thing.

The term BSI for 'body system interface' is also in common use, particularly by Peugeot.
userDeneb
Posted: 16 January 2021 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 
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rayc - 2021-01-16 9:17 AM

They are specific to the vehicle, a replacement must be exactly the same build as the one being replaced e.g. the DLR's built into my headlights are controlled by it as are the front fog lights. It is the reason that factory fitted front fog lights may be impossible to retrofit.

Just to clarify that point, the vehicle configuration is controlled by a software master configuration file, which is loaded into the body computer. Whereas many vehicles rely on a single configuration file loaded into the body ECU, central electronics module, or whatever name a manufacturer uses, the system used by Fiat distributes copies of the configuration file to several other ECUs around the vehicle, which allows calls over the network by various systems to be handled by the repeater nodes, avoiding waiting times for network access to the body computer for safety critical functions.

But changes in the behaviour of DRLs, presence or otherwise of front foglights, and various other options can be altered by rewriting the configuration file, if you know which bytes to change. So by changing the value of a single byte in a specific position in the file, the body computer can be told that front foglights are fitted, and change its operating procedure accordingly.

When the configuration file is changed, due to items on the vehicle having been added or deleted, the configuration file has to be reloaded and copied to the other "holding" nodes on the network, which is in part what the "proxi-alignment" process does.

Multiecuscan can add or remove certain features, and carry out a proxi-alignment. It also allows the BCM configuration file to be downloaded, manually edited and reloaded as a "custom proxi file" if you know what you are doing.

AlfaOBD software allows many more changes to be automated, including the addition of front foglights, changing the headlight and DRL behaviour between headlights with filament bulb or LED DRLs etc. That doesn't help of course if, for instance, you have fitted front foglights but the expected wiring between the body computer and the lights isn't present, but I have successfully altered the behaviour of the radio on my van by rewriting the BCM config file with AlfaODB, and I have activated features on my Volvo using similar Volvo oriented software, which similarly requires a single byte change to the config file, but for which Volvo dealers will charge exorbitant sums for a "software update" and have you believe that they are downloading a large update to your vehicle from a server in Sweden!

So when Fiat (Peugeot or Citroen) state that the BCM is unique to the vehicle and that changes cannot be accommodated, it is not strictly true. From the vehicle manufacturer's point of view, I don't believe that they make software available to their dealers that allows customisation or alteration of the BCM operation, outside of certain limits, but aftermarket software can accomplish quite a few things that Fiat or the other Sevel manufacturers will claim requires the acquisition of a new BCM/BSI.

If the BCM hardware becomes faulty though, that is a different and potentially expensive matter.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 16 January 2021 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Within this 2016 3-page forum discussion

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-Ducato-X250-engine-cutting-out-/41688/

the possibility of a "a broken wire between the ECU and the ABS module” was mentioned.

Despite in-depth technical investigation by the mototrhome’s owner and expert forum advice, a faulty fuel injector turned out to be the culprit.

What (if anything) the 2016 thread and this 2020/2021 one prove is what a swine problem diagnosis on a modern vehicle can be.
userBulletguy
Posted: 16 January 2021 2:41 PM
Subject: RE: Help Engine won't start!!
 


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Mickydripin - 2021-01-15 10:05 PM

Hi everyone thanks for all your help.
I am sorry that I did not get back to you to let you know what the exact problem was but with covid and my memory i did not inform you of the problem.

Today the 15/01/21 I have just found out myself as the cause was not on the bill so I had to do some digging and I had to contact Sherwoods Truck and Van in Stoke-on-Trent as they did not put on the receipt what the exact problem was.

Micky,

Glad you got your electrical issue sorted and I noticed you are relatively local to me so here is another contact if ever you need it. Mark's Auto Electrical Services, 11 Hall St, Burslem, Stoke-on-Trent ST6 4BB, Phone; 01782 577251. Imo he's among the very best in the area for auto electrics. He does nothing else, no mechanical work just all auto electrics. He doesn't hang around either and is damn quick at sourcing and rectifying the problem. The downside is he's not keen about working on motorhomes but if it's engine related and not habitation, and you can drive it to him, he will take it on.
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