High pressure bolt-in tyre valves

[Guest Mad Pierre]

Where is the best place to buy these steel tyre valves online? There seems to be so much confusing and conflicting info about tyre valves

[Derek Uzzell]

There are plenty of possibilities

 

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=tyre+valves+clamp-in&*

 

but in the past I’ve bought this type of valve from here

 

http://www.auto4.co.uk/valves-and-valve-hardware/clamp-in-valves

 

The clamp-in valves normally fitted to motorhome wheels are made of plated-brass (not steel) and the type of valve-to-rim seal can be either an O-ring or a ’stepped washer’. The latter type is the most tolerant of rim irregularities (corrosion, not being flat at the valve-hole) but needs extra care when being fitted.

 

I chose this valve

 

http://www.auto4.co.uk/valves-and-valve-hardware/clamp-in-valves/clamp-in-valve-42mm-cw-16mm-nut

 

for my Ford Transit-based Hobby motorhome’s wheels, but fitted a Schrader O-ring-type valve to the spare-wheel I added to my Rapido motorhome.

 

You might want to look at this earlier discussion

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/tyres-metal-valves/34081/

 

 

 

 

[colin]

A sleight aside, and jumping back two links and Nicks reply on valves fitted Ducato Maxi's, my 2011 van has bolt in valves fitted from the factory, this caused a bit of head scratching when fitting new tyres as we where expecting to find hp snap in valves. Where the inner seal was exposed there was a small amount of perishing, as it was going for a MOT next morning decided to replace the innards and get new valves another day, that was a year ago, will get around to replacing the valves sometime or other.

[nimod]

Valves

[Derek Uzzell]

nimod - 2017-03-02 10:34 AM

 

Valves

 

The valves in your photo look like the Schrader 65765-68 product shown on this webpage

 

https://www.schraderinternational.com/catalog/GB/HTML/AFTERMARKET%20PRODUCTS%20CATALOGUE%20-%20EDITION%2018/files/assets/basic-html/page13.html

 

This is the valve normally used on Boxers/Ducatos/Relays when ‘camping-car’ tyres are fitted as original equipment, but previous motorhome-forum comments (and my own personal experience) is that they are not easily obtainable for retro-fitting. They can be ordered from Schrader via a retailer, but normally only on a minimum-order-of-10-valves basis.

 

Difficulty in obtaining a small number of Schrader 65765-68 valves has been mentioned before

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=65765&author=derek+uzzell&days=&Submit=Search

 

so it would be helpful if you know of a source that can provide just a couple of valves rather than the 10-minimum.

 

I’m not sure if it’s mentioned in the links above, but the wire ‘spring’ that’s behind the full-diameter plastic wheel-trim factory-fitted to a lot of 2006-onwards Boxers/Ducatos/Relays seems to have been specifically designed with the Schrader 65765-68 valve in mind. I had a number of clamp-in valves left over from when the rims of my Ford Transit-based Hobby motorhome were fitted with this type of valve but, although those valves would fit a Ducato rim I had bought (to use as a spare-wheel) the plastic wheel-trim would not locate properly until I installed the ‘proper’ 65765-68 valve

[witzend]

Mad Pierre - 2017-03-01 10:13 PM

 

Where is the best place to buy these steel tyre valves online?

 

Link to eBay

I always check Ebay first

 

(Edited by Keithl to shorten link)

[starvin marvin]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-03-02 9:12 AM

 

There are plenty of possibilities

 

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=tyre+valves+clamp-in&*

 

but in the past I’ve bought this type of valve from here

 

http://www.auto4.co.uk/valves-and-valve-hardware/clamp-in-valves

 

The clamp-in valves normally fitted to motorhome wheels are made of plated-brass (not steel) and the type of valve-to-rim seal can be either an O-ring or a ’stepped washer’. The latter type is the most tolerant of rim irregularities (corrosion, not being flat at the valve-hole) but needs extra care when being fitted.

 

I chose this valve

 

http://www.auto4.co.uk/valves-and-valve-hardware/clamp-in-valves/clamp-in-valve-42mm-cw-16mm-nut

 

for my Ford Transit-based Hobby motorhome’s wheels, but fitted a Schrader O-ring-type valve to the spare-wheel I added to my Rapido motorhome.

 

You might want to look at this earlier discussion

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/tyres-metal-valves/34081/

 

 

 

 

Derek, found your old response to to this issue.

 

I’m currently trying to replace a life expired tyre. KwikFit are the best price for what I want, then the issue of clamp in valves came up.

 

1st depot...”no problem sir” except I don’t think they fully understood.

 

2nd depot...” no way sir, customer supply only, get them from Fiat £25/pr.

 

Head office...” don’t know if there’s a policy on valves, some depots are a franchise”

 

3rd depot...”bring it in we’ have a look, we do fit hp valves but only with pressure monitoring devices “

 

So the question is what do I do? Because I’ve looked at your link to Auto something and I’m no wiser.

[Derek Uzzell]

You are unlikely to find on-line the Schrader clamp-in tyre valve that’s normally factory fitted to motorhomes and, if you ordered from Schrader, you’d need to order a box of 10 valves.

 

If you just want one new valve, this one should be OK even if your vehicle has steel wheels - but you better be sure that the tyre-fitter does not overtighten it.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Tyre-Wheel-Valve-525AMS-Tubeless-Bolt-on-Clamp-in-New-BMW-Alloy-Wheels-/132334280039

 

Otherwise, just get the tyre-fitter to replace your present valve’s removable ‘core’ with a new one.

[starvin marvin]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-06-01 2:37 PM

 

You are unlikely to find on-line the Schrader clamp-in tyre valve that’s normally factory fitted to motorhomes and, if you ordered from Schrader, you’d need to order a box of 10 valves.

 

If you just want one new valve, this one should be OK even if your vehicle has steel wheels - but you better be sure that the tyre-fitter does not overtighten it.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Tyre-Wheel-Valve-525AMS-Tubeless-Bolt-on-Clamp-in-New-BMW-Alloy-Wheels-/132334280039

 

Otherwise, just get the tyre-fitter to replace your present valve’s removable ‘core’ with a new one.

 

Derek, I need to explain, the tyre I’m replacing has, I believe, a snap in valve similar to my cars.

 

The rim is a Hymer fit alloy. Currently only one wheel has a clamp in valve fitted recently when I had to replace a tyre in Portugal. This new tyre will be it’s matching partner on the same axle.

[Derek Uzzell]

Not really sure what sort of response you are looking for.

 

If you want a clamp-in valve to exactly match the one fitted in Portugal, it would be necessary to know what that valve looks like and then try to find one the same in the UK.

 

Although I said in my last posting that it was unlikely that the Schrader-made (65765-68) clamp-in valve that is normally factory-fitted to Fiat Ducato motorhomes was unlikely to be obtainable on-line, coincidentally I just came across this ebay advert

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-X-CLAMP-IN-TYRE-VALVES-Motor-home-Camper-Van-/282039935163?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10

 

I have one of the Schrader 65765-68 valves that I carry ‘just in case’ and the valves (said to be made in France) in the ebay advert are identical in appearance to my valve and to the relevant picture in the Schrader catalogue.

 

http://www.schraderinternational.com/catalog/GB/HTML/AFTERMARKET%20PRODUCTS%20CATALOGUE%20-%20EDITION%2018/files/assets/basic-html/page13.html

 

If the ebay-advertised valves are not genuine Schrader 65765-68 valves, they are a damn good copy!

 

(The Schrader 65765-68 valve fits OK on the steel wheels fitted to my Ducato-based Rapido, but I don’t know if it would fit OK on your Hymer’s alloy wheels.)

[Derek Uzzell]

For tyre-valve related information, Schrader’s (large) catalogue is viewable here

 

https://tinyurl.com/ybvjz3vz

 

Page 10 shows ordinary ‘car’ rubber snap-in rubber valves suitable for the normal 11.5mm hole in the wheel-rim. It will be noted that their advised maximum inflation pressure is 4.5bar (65psi).

 

Page 11 shows a TR600HP higher-pressure rubber snap-in valve for the 11.5mm wheel-rim hole with an advised maximum inflation pressure of 5.5bar (80psi). Also several ultra-high-pressure snap-in valves for the 11.5mm wheel-rim hole with an advised maximum inflation pressure of 14bar (203psi). Ford fitted this valve as original equipment to Transit Mk 7 vehicles and (I’m guessing) continues to fit it to current models. For motorhomes it would be a viable alternative to metal clamp-in valves.

 

This document warns of the dangers of fitting cheap tyre valves

 

https://tinyurl.com/y9p2gdyy

 

It needs saying that rubber snap-in valves can be obtained by a tyre-fitting outlet for very little money, and that tyre valve failure is far from unknown. Unless a valve’s provenance can be established with reasonable confidence (like the valves are in a Schrader box or carry a reputable maker’s brand-name) it’s going to be pot-luck whether a normal car snap-in valve is high or low quality.

[starvin marvin]

Derek, once again apologies or not being clear about what I want.

 

I’ve sourced the tyre I want, what I need now is the proper valve, not so simple. I’m not in the slightest interested in matching the Portuguese valve.

 

Ideally I don’t want to supply the valve, I want the fitters to do that, so the risk and responsibility stays with them. It’s clear tyre suppliers/fitters don’t generally stock clamp in valves, nor are they willing to source them.

 

For me this leaves 2 questions.

 

Do I simply allow them to fit a hp snap in valve? Which they say they fit to all sorts of heavily loaded commercial vehicles, implying “what’s your problem sir?”

 

or Do I go out and buy a valve and get them to fit it? This poses the next problem which is how do I make sure I’ve got the correct valve? I wouldn’t recognise the correct valve if it hit me in the face. If I take this route then I’m taking the risk away from the supplier/fitter.

 

At the moment my plan is to take the van to Halfords, buy a clamp in valve to fit my alloys, if they have off one. Order the tyre, ask for a clamp in valve, if the answer is “no sir” offer my valve (if I’ve managed to get one). If the answer is “no sir” just let them fit a up snap in valve and look happy.

[Derek Uzzell]

I very much doubt that Halfords would stock clamp-in tyre valves, but you never know your luck.

 

Personally, given that you own a Hymer T654 with 3.0litre motor, I’d want ‘known quantity’ high-pressure valves in all its alloy wheels. That might mean the Schrader snap-in type used on Ford Transit Mk 7s or clamp-in valves, but I certainly wouldn’t want the common-or-garden rubber snap-in valves that are generally fitted to car wheels.

 

A tyre-fitting firm familiar with working on motorhomes should also be familiar with fitting clamp-in valves: KWIK-FIT is unlikely to meet those criteria and I’m not surprised by the responses you received from the depots you contacted.

 

Assuming that the Portugese tyre-fitter used an appropriate clamp-in valve when you had a tyre replaced, that valve would provide a visual basis for obtaining another clamp-in valve that has a suitable design and dimensions to fit your alloy rim.

 

I had the snap-in valves on my 2005 Hobby motorhome replaced with clamp-in valves, but the first set of clamp-in valves I obtained clearly made fitting them tricky and I bought some different design valves to overcome this.

 

As I wanted to carry a spare-wheel in my present Rapido motorhome I bought a new Fiat 15”-diameter steel wheel. I thought I’d use one of the clamp-in valves left over from the Hobby exercise, but all of these interfered with fitting the Fiat plastic wheel-trims, so I had to source the Schrader valve factory-fitted by Fiat. I installed the valve in the steel wheel myself and then had a local tyre-fitting company fit a Michelin “Agilis Camping” tyre to match the tyres on the Rapido.

 

If you can source a valve to match the Portugal-fitted one, there’s a reasonable chance that will be OK. Otherwise you’ll be throwing yourself on the mercy of KWIK-FIT who may or may not fit a suitable valve.

[starvin marvin]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-06-02 5:37 PM

 

I very much doubt that Halfords would stock clamp-in tyre valves, but you never know your luck.

 

Personally, given that you own a Hymer T654 with 3.0litre motor, I’d want ‘known quantity’ high-pressure valves in all its alloy wheels. That might mean the Schrader snap-in type used on Ford Transit Mk 7s or clamp-in valves, but I certainly wouldn’t want the common-or-garden rubber snap-in valves that are generally fitted to car wheels.

 

A tyre-fitting firm familiar with working on motorhomes should also be familiar with fitting clamp-in valves: KWIK-FIT is unlikely to meet those criteria and I’m not surprised by the responses you received from the depots you contacted.

 

Assuming that the Portugese tyre-fitter used an appropriate clamp-in valve when you had a tyre replaced, that valve would provide a visual basis for obtaining another clamp-in valve that has a suitable design and dimensions to fit your alloy rim.

 

I had the snap-in valves on my 2005 Hobby motorhome replaced with clamp-in valves, but the first set of clamp-in valves I obtained clearly made fitting them tricky and I bought some different design valves to overcome this.

 

As I wanted to carry a spare-wheel in my present Rapido motorhome I bought a new Fiat 15”-diameter steel wheel. I thought I’d use one of the clamp-in valves left over from the Hobby exercise, but all of these interfered with fitting the Fiat plastic wheel-trims, so I had to source the Schrader valve factory-fitted by Fiat. I installed the valve in the steel wheel myself and then had a local tyre-fitting company fit a Michelin “Agilis Camping” tyre to match the tyres on the Rapido.

 

If you can source a valve to match the Portugal-fitted one, there’s a reasonable chance that will be OK. Otherwise you’ll be throwing yourself on the mercy of KWIK-FIT who may or may not fit a suitable valve.

 

You’re exactly right, I do want good quality products. However finding suppliers/fitters of motorhome here in the East Mids who are interested and competitive is harder than you’d think.

 

For example ATS don’t have access on their systems to motorhome tyres, well certainly not Vanco Campers

National never got back to me despite me chasing up twice. Mr Tyre didn’t seem to want the business through their price, several others where the same. Black Circle were less than useless.

 

However Kwikfit could get the tyre in on the same day and the price £135, compared well with the Portuguese at €207, but right now I’m almost wishing I’d bought 2!!

 

The tender mercies of Kwikfit compared to the other outfits seems good, and I’m certainly not flying a flag for Kwikfit. I don’t seem to have many options.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Your primary difficulty is encapsulated in your statement above “...I don’t want to supply the valve, I want the fitters to do that, so the risk and responsibility stays with them”. That’s fine if the fitter is knowledgeable about tyre valves suitable for motorhome wheels, but not if the fitter is clueless.

 

A tyre-valve needs to be appropriate for the diameter of the wheel-rim hole that accepts the valve and the ‘norm’ is for a hole-diameter of 11.5mm (0.453”). The valve also needs to be a suitable length - long enough that a tyre-pump can be easily connected to it, but not so long that it protrudes so far from the rim to be vulnerable to damage from (say) the valve contacting a kerb.

 

It’s near certain that your alloy wheels have 11.5mm/0.453” holes, but (obviously) I don’t know how long the valves are.

 

This (USA) page relates to Schrader snap-in valves. You’ll see that 5 different lengths are available for 0.453” ‘car’ snap-in valves that have a maxium inflation pressure of 65psi, and 2 different lengths for ‘high pressure’ 0.453” valves with a maximum inflation pressure of 80psi. Of the latter two valves the TR-600 is widely available in the UK (ebay advert here)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-Genuine-Schrader-TR600-High-Pressure-Tubeless-Tyre-Valves-Transit-Motorhome-/162418571887

 

and if the length of a TR-600HP valve is OK for your alloy wheel and if KWIK-FIT fitted a genuine Schrader TR-600HP valve, there’s no real reason to think there might be problems with that valve subsequently.

 

However, if KWIK-FIT habitually fit ‘car’ snap-in valves (with a 65psi advised maximum inflation pressure) to “heavily loaded commercial vehicles” - a practice that, in my experience, is pretty common for UK tyre-fitting outlets - potentially that will be asking for trouble. Similarly, as I touched on earlier, there are lots of TR-600HP valves available (it’s a standardised design) but the Schrader-made (and Schrader-branded) version should be the most trustworthy.

 

The “Tyremen” company markets steel and alloy wheels suitable for motorhomes and, in the “Fitting your wheels” section of this webpage,

 

https://www.tyremen.co.uk/guide/fiat-ducato-motorhome-wheels

 

advises as follows

 

"When being fitted to a camper then you should be using high pressure valves, either add these onto your purchase of make sure your fitter has them available.”

 

Try phoning the Tyremen people for advice about using snap-in valves - at least you should then get a 2nd opinion.

 

https://www.tyremen.co.uk/contact

 

You might also try asking Lowdhams who does tyre-fitting for them, as that firm should be familiar with motorhome wheels and the tyre-valves suitable for them.

[starvin marvin]

Just an update on where I’m at with this saga.

 

I eventually obtained a Schrader clamp in valve from a tyre fitting comany, this was basically done by speaking with Lowdhams, as per your suggestion, they send people wanting tyres to ATS . You may recall that ATS’s system doesn’t include Vanco Camper tyres. When I pointed this out and the problems getting a suitable valve he suggested another outfit. After being passed around to 3 different possible stockists I found one, for a tenner, but they wanted £155 for the tyre.

 

The upshot is I’ve now got the valve with a guaranteed 2018 Dotcode tyre for £119.99 fully fitted, including vat. From my old friends Kwikfit. Job booked for sat am, result!

 

This is the range of prices quoted to me over the last two weeks.

 

Halfords £191, were the highest, others were £174.50, £160.80, £155 etc, Kwikfit started out at £135, but their online price is, it seems extremely competitive at £120. Much better than my Portuguese cost of €207!! My target price per tyre was £150, so on average for the two tyres not that far away.

 

Many thanks for your help, your input is appreciated. Fingers crossed, still time for it to go wrong!!

[Brambles]

The problem I had when replacing the Schrader tyre valves on 10 year old steel wheels was the corrosion around the valve hole and the new O ring would not seal properly, It was also not helped by the area being slightly curved. I had bought 10 direct from Schrader thinking I was doing the right thing. In the end they were changed for a Jaguar High Pressure bolt in valve from Pang. see http://www.panguk.com/jaguar-valve-p-61.html

(I did not use the steel valve caps but the Schrader plastic ones because metal valve caps have a habit of getting stuck fast.)

 

The ebay link from Derek to what looks like a Schrader valve certainly looks like the real part. Expanding the picture shows SCHRADER embossed on the plastic cap and comparing as Derek did to an original part looks identical in every way.

[Derek Uzzell]

starvin marvin - 2018-06-06 4:24 PM

 

...Fingers crossed, still time for it to go wrong!!

 

As Brambles has mentioned, clamp-in tyre valves that use an O-ring to provide the seal between the valve’s base and the wheel-rim are less tolerant to corrosion/curvature at at the wheel-rim ‘hole’ than valves that employ a rubber 'stepped washer’ seal. Conversely, the Schrader O-ring valve’s recommended tightening torque-setting (12Nm to 15Nm) is significantly higher than that normally advised for stepped-washer types of valves, so there’s a sporting chance that a tyre fitter will have a torque-wrench that’s accurate in the 10-20Nm range.

 

Hopefully whoever at Kwik Fit is fitting your tyre will not under- or over-tighten the valve.

[starvin marvin]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-06-07 8:06 AM

 

starvin marvin - 2018-06-06 4:24 PM

 

...Fingers crossed, still time for it to go wrong!!

 

As Brambles has mentioned, clamp-in tyre valves that use an O-ring to provide the seal between the valve’s base and the wheel-rim are less tolerant to corrosion/curvature at at the wheel-rim ‘hole’ than valves that employ a rubber 'stepped washer’ seal. Conversely, the Schrader O-ring valve’s recommended tightening torque-setting (12Nm to 15Nm) is significantly higher than that normally advised for stepped-washer types of valves, so there’s a sporting chance that a tyre fitter will have a torque-wrench that’s accurate in the 10-20Nm range.

 

Hopefully whoever at Kwik Fit is fitting your tyre will not under- or over-tighten the valve.

 

Thanks for that Derek, something else to worry about! Seriously, I have the stepped washer variety, any advice on torque settings for those?

[Brambles]

shoulder type - 3 to 5Nm.

They should be rechecked after tyre is inflated as you will find they loosen off with the inflation pressure as it helps compress the rubber seal.

The valves with a thin rubber shoulder are more prone to this than the ones with a thick seal.

[Alanf1]

Just out of interest, there seems t o be a lot of negativity about the standard rubber HP valves.

What is the problem with these?

[Derek Uzzell]

Alan

 

It’s a long story, but there’s nothing intrinsically ‘wrong’ in fitting to motorhome wheels TR600HP valves (that I assume are the valves you are referring to).

 

If you wade through these previous forum threads (reading from 2008 to 2018)

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=tr600&author=&days=&Submit=Search

 

you’ll see how the German-made TR600HP valve Ford were factory-fitting to certain Transit MK 6 vehicles from 2000 to 2006 earned that specification of valve a general reputation in the UK for failure irrespective of the valve’s manufacturer.

 

Where the potential problem comes with rubber snap-in valves and motorhome wheels is if the vehicle’s owner chooses to use high tyre-pressures (eg. 80psi) and the snap-in valves that have been fitted are the ordinary ‘car’ type designed for a lower maximum inflation-pressure.

[Alanf1]

Thanks Derek, It's definitely worth being armed with the correct information when you come to look at these things.

[starvin marvin]

Alanf1 - 2018-06-08 10:55 AM

 

Thanks Derek, It's definitely worth being armed with the correct information when you come to look at these things.

 

And the best of luck, you’ll need it!!

[starvin marvin]

All done and dusted. I have to say Kwikfit have been excellent , good price, good customer service, would I use them again? certainly. The tyre is week 12 2018, If only they stocked clamp in valves!!

 

They changed the metal dust cap on the valve for a plastic one because in the opinion of the depot manager (21 years working for Kwikfit) the metal ones corrode on.